Say "NO!" to Stamina Stacking

[HellBurn]

1% dodge = 39.34799 dodge rating
1% parry = 49.18499 parry rating

Dodge starts at 1.0 value
at 20% dodge we're at 0.9 value per 1 dodge rating
at 29% dodge we're at 0.8 value per 1 dodge rating
at 38% dodge we're at 0.7 value per 1 dodge rating
at 47% dodge we're at 0.6 value per 1 dodge rating (2558 dodge rating)



Parry starts at 1.0 value
at 11% parry we're at 0.9 value per 1 parry rating
at 16% parry we're at 0.8 Value per 1 parry rating
at 20% parry we're at 0.7 value per 1 parry rating
at 25% parry we're at 0.6 value per 1 parry rating (1623 parry rating)


After a while stamina will be better as you'll benefit much less from parry and dodge value.


Source : ElitistJerks

[Partipooper]

Avoidance doesent save mana when mobs hit for more then half your hp..
And you are still gonna get hit several times in a row even with your "48% combined Dodge/Parry" round it up to 50% and the chance that 3 hits in a row is gonna land is 0.5*0.5*0.5 = 12,5% its when that happens that you gonna die if you ever will and the cure is stamina and armor.
If you are tanking alot of soft hitting mobs (thorim for ex) avoidance rules but if you are tanking a single hard hitting mob go stamina/armor.
The fact that dodge/parry is as effective as spirit in stoping magic dmg doesent really play in its favor either.

[Frankenhookr]

Stam and Mitigation and avoidance and threat are all important. The question is not how you get the most of one, it is how you get the most of all of them. When you are leveling or just recently reach 80 you will have to take what you can get but when you start fine tuning a solid set of tanking gear there are a lot of things that are important to keep in mind.

If you are taking the PVP shoulder enchant for the stam then you are not getting the most for that gear slot.

If you take the old +18 stam to shield enchant over titanium plating then you are not getting the most for that slot. The combined avoidance of +20 defense to shield is superior to +18 stamina even after defense cap.

If you ignore socket bonuses then you are not getting the most for that slot.

Defense cap needs will change a lot until you are in high end gear. Having defense trinkets to swap in to maintain defense cap gives you the ability to optimize enchants and gems while building gear that alows you to trade them for better trinkets.

Stam trinkets are better in some situations than others but are necessary for well rounded gear otions. Better to be able to swap out trinkets to change from high stam to high avoidance or threat than having to have completely different gemmed and enchanted sets of gear.

Stacking Stam gems and then being forced to use defense enchants for chest or cape to get defense cap is a waste of an enchant.

Stam to boots is the obvious choice. Neither agi or Icewalker are going to have the all purpose utility of stam. I don't use tuskars vitality normally but when I get a new set of boots I usually enchant my old ones with run speed for later use.

Agi to cloak for armor, dodge, and crit is a better choice than +16 defense if you are capped and better than +220 armor.

+10 all stats to chest is better than +22 defense (after cap) or +275 health.

Blue gem slots should be used without exception for full stam gems.

Yellow slots should be used to fine tune Defense cap needs. If you absolutely have to, take a +16 defense gem instead of being forced to enchant for defense. Otherwise +8 defense or hit and +12 stam.

Red gem slots should always be used for purple gems with +8 avoidance/threat and +12 stam gems in them. Your own avoidance and threat needs should be obvious enough to decide how to pick stats. Don't forget the new +8agi/+12stam. That is dodge, armor, and crit for you deep wounds lovers. The small amounts of the 3 stats seem like nothing until you have 5-6 of them, and they stack with kings.

Defense, Hit, and Expertise are the only 3 stats with set values to achieve. 540, 8%, 6.5% If you have enough gear to get defense capped and gain 15%+ (Easily done without gemming for either.) more successful attacks through expertise and hit then you probably have all the health, mitigation and avoidance you need by default.

I've missed a few things I'm sure, but if you can follow most of these guidelines then you will get the most out of your gear and not be forced to sacrifice one stat for less of another.

[Saevus.Reptile]

I said dodge capped... because going for parry cap is a WASTE of stats.

Again, balance... balance... balance is the name of the game for Warriors.

2-3k HP could indeed save your life, once, in the long run.

Like if you take two 20k hits without healing or avoiding and you have 42k health instead of 40k health, you will live instead of die.

But I'd rather dodge one and take 20k damage and have 20k health left... and rely on my healers to be doing their job to keep enough HoTs on me and be pro-active with their healing so that I'll never take two big hits in a row without any healing in between.

You're pretending as if you don't get heals in between 2 hits. For the same chance with no stamina stacking you have 40k buffed hp while you have 44k hp buffed stamina stacked. Let's say a boss hits you for 35k and you're down to respectively 5k and 9k. The healers will then have 2.4 seconds (boss swing timer with tc debuff) to heal you up to over 35k again, which means they'll have to heal 30k or 26k depending on stamina stacking or not. You're pretending as if your healers only heal when your dead or something which is totally wrong.

The stamina stacking matters because the healers will have more space and less pressure after you take a hit to heal you back up to full health. Avoidance isn't bad but generaly it can't be trusted. With 45% chance to avoid or 50% chance to avoid the difference of being double hitted isn't all that big. However you WILL avoid once in a while (a lot actually) with both 45% or 50% which gives the healers the chance to top you off to max health, which is where a higher health pool again is king.

About threat it's very simple. You're telling us to tank hodir with frost res gear and you'll be fine, well I'd like to see you tank hodir in an avoidance + frost ress set and keep aggro over the 10k+ dps moonkin druids and other classes that can't reduce their threat properly. Same counts for general vezax, if you go in a full avoidance set there you'll be laughed at by your dps. No tank should use the same suit for every fight. During the time your guild learns to cope with the encounter you should also try to find a balance between survivability and threat. Balancing is obviously the key but avoidance vs stamina isn't rly the question in ulduar.

To write things a bit more clear I see HP/avoidance serving as follows on progression fights :

-Avoiding an attack allows your healers to easily heal you back to full health
-This "full" health is thus directly connected to your avoidance
-When you don't avoid there's a chance healers won't get you to full health before the next hit
-Thus if you avoided the previous attack, got hit by the next one (which is very very very common as avoidance hoovers not far off 50% these days) your hp pool is going to decide how easy it is for the healers to heal you back up to enough health before the next blow strikes you.

Honestly in Ulduar the best life savers IMO are cooldowns. With a 2min last stand, a 2mins shield wall, a 40sec shield block, enraged regeneration and 2 trinkets with a use button on a 2mins cd (I use both ignis 10 and 25 trinkets, giving avoidance and armor respectively on use) you can almost always have something up.

last stand : 20 seconds per 120 seconds
SW : 20 seconds per 120 seconds
SB : 30 seconds per 120 seconds
trink 1 : 20 seconds per 120 seconds
trink 2 : 20 seconds per 120 seconds

So 110/120 seconds you can effectively have some sort of personal cooldown up. Add slightly longer cd's to that like guardian spirit, pain suppresion or enraged regeneration and you'll never be fighting with just your "naked" stats.

[Astray]

how the hell would you get 70% dodge from 100 stam?


i would follow your strat if you could..

if you couldnt, l2play, and stack stam

I thought my comparison was clear enough, but okey, i'll try to say it in another way.

I say: "Most people would prefer 1 Million Dollars over 20 Euro"
You say: "But 1 Million Dollars aren't equal to 20 Euro"

Yes, thats the case. And 100 Stamina are not equal to 70% dodge, despite that Stamina is the stat that shows the tanks quality in the eyes of the ignorant.
And no, i do not raid with morons who think like that, and no i dont say thats good like that.

[Cheevo]

@bigdawg78/yeko

Stacking stamina just isn't efficient any more is the point.

The most benefit you can get from stacking stamina is like 2,000-3,000 more health.

Do you know how little 2,000-3,000 more health is in Ulduar?

OBVIOUSLY- More Health > Less Health.

the point is - More health is NOT > gimping avoidances/mitigation

Everything I was about to post is right here.