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  1. #41

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    M'uru C'thun pre nerfs -.-
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  2. #42
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

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  3. #43

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Hardest boss to me that didnt require gimmicky raid stacking is Lady Vashj. We spent alot of hour wiping on her but it was more coordination than skill in the end...then she got nerfed.
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  4. #44

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blardy
    Some lesser hard bosses would be
    Vashj and kel'thas
    They were not hard, only complicated. Those are not the same things.

  5. #45
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Complexity makes things hard though. If everything just involved, k you stand here, you nuke this and you heal these people who take X damage, then there ain't much of a problem is it, only thing that could make that hard is simply a cockblock encounter that deals out some serious pwnage.

    Generally speaking, it's those fights that require vast co-ordination in terms of moving, commanding 2-3 sides of the area to work together or blah blah that makes things hard.
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  6. #46

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azshira
    Complexity makes things hard though.
    Yes, complexity can contribute alot to difficulty, but often times it does not. Merely being a 4+phase fight does not make something hard. Complicated fights that are balanced around a bleeding edge gear setup are hard. Vashj and Kel'thas could be out geared within the tier. Speaking as someone who progressed through both fights with a chodder guild, they are barely on the hard scale.

  7. #47
    Moderator Azshira's Avatar
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    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Well I personally had the task of raid leader and healer during those 2 fights, making up strategies, failing and piecing together something again and again until it worked solid and we continue to improve on them from there, that's how most bosses should be, and that's what many bosses are, complex fights allow us to be creative, it does not necessarily have to be 5 phases long or whatever.
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  8. #48

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    C'thun trash

  9. #49

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    High overlord Saurfang...that dude fucks tanks up

  10. #50

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

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  11. #51
    High Overlord Skez's Avatar
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    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    I have to say Mu'ru (pre-nerf) also, he made me quit my guild and transfer my character to another server.

  12. #52

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Chess event in kara... Endless wipes in there

  13. #53

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    I would say that Shade, Thaddius and 4 Horsemen are the Pugkillers.

    But for an actual coordinated, sensible, intelligent and communicating guild no fight is hard except for the end of expansion ones. E.g. C'tun, the big KJ and The Lich King (inevitably).

    Complex movement fights definitely make things harder. On a fight like patchwerk if you can't kill him the there's not much you can do except come back with better gear. There's no skill involved so long as you know how to max your dps, heal and create threat.

    Whereas a fight like Vashe is a massive combination of both gear and skill.

  14. #54

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    I think many of these replys fail horribly due to subjective point of view.
    When guilds started to raid Naxx at lvl 60 there were many many really bad players in those 40 player raids. Bosses seem harder then they are when you got fools in the raid even if they do not suck so hard, that you could just say who it is.
    Add ons like Recount were the first ones that showed up who really sucks.

    Nowadays with massively used add ons just like recount, decursive, boss mods, Grid etc things that seemed difficult with lvl 60 became somewhat easy. But can you say they are easy then? Just the equipment (add ons) changed and so the players job became more easy but in fact....the hardmodes you see in ulduar are harder than any lvl 60 boss imho. You just don't realize it because you got so much help through add ons nowadays and because nowadays it is much easier to find out who plays well and who not, so it is mu8ch easier to get bad players out of the raid.

    To be honest, i don't think any encounter in wow is really hard. The whole system does not allow that. Most often so called difficulty is just RNG based to get progress ranks for the ones who try as long until RNG is with them on an encounter to get the first shot on them. And if 1000 guilds or something downed that boss just with that luckfactor it gets nerfed by that RNG degree so that you are able to kill it regardless of RNG. My Fireballs will not do more damage if i pressed the button with more power. I will not survive water elementalcharge + instant Freya DD as a clothie at freya + 3 and if this happens at the same time....screwed, nothing else. If that nature aoe will be triggered on my position at Thorim hard, i have to get behind another group, regardless of if there is the blizzard channeled and you can not decide between 2 positions to hide in every case. There are plenty of things that may happen and will wipe you and you can do a shit about it even if you are proskiller number 1. RNG as the major difficulty in this game. How much skill can a game take in which the hardcap for abilities is 1 second? You are not able to do more than 1 thing per second hardcapped? For many hardcoregamers this is almost a round based game, believe it or not.
    Ahh, what did happen as well? Formerly known as "oh shit buttons" became "needed in certain encounter to be able to survive buttons". That is what difficulty is? If shieldwall is needed by no means to be able to kill the boss and in the past this ability was used if something unexpected happened? /golfclap

  15. #55
    Stood in the Fire Voltarius's Avatar
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    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Didn't play pre-TBC, but hardest in my opinion was M'uru pre-nerf.

  16. #56

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by denkar
    C'thun. period.

    As an unfortunate witness to the raw power of this boss pre-nerf, this boss did live up to the "god" title in its classification as an old god. The only boss to never be defeated without a nerf, which is unheard of nowadays.

    End thread.

  17. #57

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    can only speak for my self, but Mu'ru is the one who feeded on most of my tears
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  18. #58

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by thonga
    can only speak for my self, but Mu'ru is the one who feeded on most of my tears
    it wasnt really hard imo, it was more of a gear check than anything else


    Quote Originally Posted by Yuzzek
    I think many of these replys fail horribly due to subjective point of view.
    When guilds started to raid Naxx at lvl 60 there were many many really bad players in those 40 player raids. Bosses seem harder then they are when you got fools in the raid even if they do not suck so hard, that you could just say who it is.
    Add ons like Recount were the first ones that showed up who really sucks.
    You are stupid, it was additional difficulties to the boss yea, but im fairly sure that you have not raided pre bc. Also DamageMeter came out way before recount

    Nowadays with massively used add ons just like recount, decursive, boss mods, Grid etc things that seemed difficult with lvl 60 became somewhat easy. But can you say they are easy then? Just the equipment (add ons) changed and so the players job became more easy but in fact....the hardmodes you see in ulduar are harder than any lvl 60 boss imho. You just don't realize it because you got so much help through add ons nowadays and because nowadays it is much easier to find out who plays well and who not, so it is mu8ch easier to get bad players out of the raid.
    Addons existed back then, and they were doing the same thing. An addon was developped in my guild called RDX, it could do all you listed


    To be honest, i don't think any encounter in wow is really hard.
    if i could solo wow, i would. pretty much like any good raiders. I can't remember the last time i fucked up in a raid, while it hold guilds back alot

    The whole system does not allow that. Most often so called difficulty is just RNG based to get progress ranks for the ones who try as long until RNG is with them on an encounter to get the first shot on them. And if 1000 guilds or something downed that boss just with that luckfactor it gets nerfed by that RNG degree so that you are able to kill it regardless of RNG. My Fireballs will not do more damage if i pressed the button with more power. I will not survive water elementalcharge + instant Freya DD as a clothie at freya + 3 and if this happens at the same time....screwed, nothing else. If that nature aoe will be triggered on my position at Thorim hard, i have to get behind another group, regardless of if there is the blizzard channeled and you can not decide between 2 positions to hide in every case. There are plenty of things that may happen and will wipe you and you can do a shit about it even if you are proskiller number 1. RNG as the major difficulty in this game. How much skill can a game take in which the hardcap for abilities is 1 second? You are not able to do more than 1 thing per second hardcapped? For many hardcoregamers this is almost a round based game, believe it or not.
    Ahh, what did happen as well? Formerly known as "oh shit buttons" became "needed in certain encounter to be able to survive buttons". That is what difficulty is? If shieldwall is needed by no means to be able to kill the boss and in the past this ability was used if something unexpected happened? /golfclap
    if there were no RNG at all in this game, everybody would have 10 health where bosses hit for 4 dmg and healers heal for 1, with no other variables

  19. #59

    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by khornate68
    it wasnt really hard imo, it was more of a gear check than anything else


    You are stupid, it was additional difficulties to the boss yea, but im fairly sure that you have not raided pre bc. Also DamageMeter came out way before recount

    Addons existed back then, and they were doing the same thing. An addon was developped in my guild called RDX, it could do all you listed


    if i could solo wow, i would. pretty much like any good raiders. I can't remember the last time i fucked up in a raid, while it hold guilds back alot

    if there were no RNG at all in this game, everybody would have 10 health where bosses hit for 4 dmg and healers heal for 1, with no other variables
    RNG is ok as long as it does not decide if you wipe or not by no means. If any clothie dies if freya does instant dd on him combined with a charging water elemental, then this should gamewise not be able to happen - period. Else i may play blackjack instead, it's the same degree of difficulty - luck!
    Don't get me wrong, if there was the possibility to get an instant dd and let's say 1 or 2 seconds later that charge, i am fine with that but not if there are 0,02 seconds between charge and instant damage because that is just impossible to get healed or prevented by a shield or something, that's just ridicolous.

    And yes i've been playing in Vanilla, i raided AQ 40 and then went back to DAoC those days because i wanted some PvP again which is horrible in WoW. I came back in about 2 weeks after TBC release.
    I know there was damage meters but it is just unimportant what name it had. Recount is just an improved damage meters, nothing else. But i tell you one thing: Our guild did not raid on patchday because most of the members were not able to without their fucking updated add ons. When we raided AQ 40 they haven't even be able to do a MC farmrun without their add ons. And if you want me to tell that there were no improvements add on wise over the years you'd better call yourself stupid.

    And there is no problem to design encounter with less RNG. Blizzard showed it right in Ulduar. XT Hardmode for instance. In heroic mode it is tough but there is no rng deciding if you win or not. If everybody is fully concentrated and has the gear you will kill this hardmode in the first shot every week. This is not true for Thorim or Council. Phase 3 Council hardmode is from the start on just luck. He does not cast is meltdown right at the beginning, no, sometimes he waits 5 seconds or so with it and sometimes he casts it immediately. 5 seconds on Phase 3 Council hardmode makes such a big of a difference it is crazy. Thorim as well. The difficulty itself is (as a DD) to be concentrated to not get that nature aoe and not getting too close to other groups so that a chain lightning will instakill people. But the point where it begins to suck alot is when the aoe is trigered to your left, so you have to hide behind the group to your right but there is the blizzard channeling in that moment. You now have to decide to die in the aoe or to die through blizzard or maybe to risk to wipe at least 3 other players (if you decide so, you hide just into the group to the right and if a chain lightning is casted in there....BOOM). If the nature aoe could only be triggered on places where you can avoid them without running into the blizzard this would be skill only. As it is now, you can always wipe through RNG itself without having done any mistake. And this may be so called difficulty in your point of view, for me this is just a fucking waste of my time. If RNG gets that important it kills the fun of everyone who yet again realize that they are spending their spare time here.

  20. #60
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    Re: Hardest boss fight in wow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fact_of_Life
    Kil'jaeden

    He involved dps race, pure madness, multiple adds in the fight, mega healz all around, even tho he was killed before a nerf. It took situational awareness and a knowledge of how to pull off as much dps as you could.
    Fixt! please... takes 5 seconds to google the name lol

    In my opinion it would have to be M'uru. Kj was more of a strategy fight and l2 move, tho if you killed M'uru you should know all that . To kill M'uru you had to do everything how you were supposed to do it perfectly, and I mean it. 1 person made a mistake or someone died and it was a wipe. groups had to be balanced perfectly on each side, adds CCd and DPSd down, mass dispell had to be casted at the exact time or... it was a wipe.
    Even after P1 was over you could easily wipe if you didn't do the right thing.

    Now I didn't see C'thun pre-nerf, when I started playing my friends guild ran me through all the pre-BC content and I saw 3 fights in Naxx 40... awesome instance.
    We finally got Mimiron hard 10 man down and I have to admit that fight is freaking hard, but you can have some f-ups and still beat him, now i'm not sure about 25 man.

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