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  1. #21

    Re: holy dps question

    Nowhere in my post did I ask for blizzard to change the spec, If they did It'd be more then welcome, nor was I aware I was trolling, but I'm content with the tree now, it's fun and refreshing to 'me'.

    My post was mainly pointed towards syanid who seems to be belittling people who 'choose' to be smitespec. that would be like belittling gay people for being different then the 'standard' man-woman relationship.

    For the record, I have NEVER dps'd in a raid as smitespec, I have it as offspec for doing dailies, and i'm having a blast when doing them, when given the chance to smite dps in a raid where one less healer is needed I wont be complaining.

  2. #22

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    Come on, drop the bullshit please. Anyone with IQ over 2 can conclude that holy dps is nowhere near shadow dps. I couldn't care less what smiters do and what "complex" rotations they use since it's pointless as it's not viable for raiding. It doesn't take much to conclude that, OMG, smite dps consists of everything you can cast AND SMITE. I argued the fun part about it and the useful part about smiting. And yes, it's one and a half spell spam.

    Also Worshaka said it perfectly - it's exactly that, people trying to be special.
    Nobody is claiming that Smite is a raid spec, or that it is topping the damage meters. Smite is for if you are bored, and it has been adopted as a pet project by some of the priests on the forum here. By the way, if you backpedal any harder you might hurt something. Although watching you try and twist your own words and claim that you know Smite priests use about 6-7 different spells AND only use one and a half is pretty entertaining.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  3. #23

    Re: holy dps question

    I couldn't care less if it uses 1, 2 or 10 spells, I don't seem to be able to explain that to you. You got comprehension problems? I can try and draw it if it helps. Oh, and about the "pet project"... what the f.. can you 2-3 guys please open a blog and hang out there?

  4. #24

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    I couldn't care less if it uses 1, 2 or 10 spells, I don't seem to be able to explain that to you. You got comprehension problems? I can try and draw it if it helps. Oh, and about the "pet project"... what the f.. can you 2-3 guys please open a blog and hang out there?
    What's so fun about spamming one and a half spell during 5 minutes of boss encounter?
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  5. #25

    Re: holy dps question

    Ok, forget it. If you think it is not fun to play, then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Holy DPS is not really raid viable, and nobody is claiming that it is, but some people spec it for fun. The only problem I had was that you said it used one and a half spells, when it actually has quite a complicated rotation. I think we are derailing the topic slightly, so I am going to stop now.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  6. #26

    Re: holy dps question

    It's always nice to hear in a forum how people don't care about the things they look into and comment about.

    Anyways, even though it's pretty clear that holy dps isn't viable like shadow spec is - I'd like to see more wws or other logs of it to see what it can do.
    Some people play games for the fun of it.. crazy, isn't it?

    What's fun about being like everyone else?
    EU forum is ignored.
    Game balance is not ok.
    Blue posters contradict themselves.
    Blizzards attitude towards us players sucks.

  7. #27

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    Nowhere in my post did I ask for blizzard to change the spec, If they did It'd be more then welcome, nor was I aware I was trolling, but I'm content with the tree now, it's fun and refreshing to 'me'.

    My post was mainly pointed towards syanid who seems to be belittling people who 'choose' to be smitespec. that would be like belittling gay people for being different then the 'standard' man-woman relationship.

    For the record, I have NEVER dps'd in a raid as smitespec, I have it as offspec for doing dailies, and i'm having a blast when doing them, when given the chance to smite dps in a raid where one less healer is needed I wont be complaining.
    As I illustrated, the priority or rotation (whatever u want to call it) is exactly the same as shadow... you cast 2 dots, cast your highest DPE nuke whenver its off CD and use a filler inbetween... I fail to see how smite spec is more fun when there is no distinction in rotation compared with the alternative (shadow) and deals far less damage.

    You also made the claim it deals more burst damage which is clearly incorrect, wws posted earlier in this thread shows a highest hit of 7K from a 2 sec cast spell. Shadow offers 3 dots which have the ability to crit, as well as MB able to crit for 10K+ in addition to SW which does more damage as shadow.

    The only reason people start forums about smite spec is to complain how it isn't viable... you only need go through this post to find a few of those comments. Talking about smite spec is as useful as a pally talking about Shockadin dps... if you want to smite spec to feel 'special' or 'unique'... go right ahead. We dont need posts with the underlying message that it should be buffed for you to do that.

  8. #28

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Looking at the WWS log that was posted, there is no point casting MB as the Damage Per Execute time was 200dps lower than smite. Consiering SW is lower DPE than MB I can't say it would be worth casting SW either.
    Holy Fire has a 10 second cooldown, so the duration in which Glyphed Smite can be casted is limited. Next to glyphed Smite, SW or MB is your next best spell depending on your spellpower. Ignoring cooldowns, here's the numbers in terms of damage per second:

    @ 2000 spellpower:
    Smite < SW < MB < G.Smite < G.SW
    1246 < 1337 < 1431 < 1495 < 1537

    @ 2500 spellpower:
    Smite < SW < MB < G.SW < G.Smite
    1450 < 1508 < 1595 < 1659 < 1740

    as for bursty, that needs to be reworded. smite dps vs shadow is like mage vs warlock. shadow's main spell is channeled, it's not exactly a "nuke" spell, where you spend xx seconds casting and KABOOM, everything lands!, rather you spend 3 seconds and every second you get a "boooooom". in terms of damage, of course shadow offers much more.

    shadow is dot based damage dealing, smite is more casting oriented. my explanation sucks but basically that's the main difference.

    as for why do people choose smite rather than shadow?

    to be special, to be different, to have fun, of course. what else? duh if it took you that long to figure out why people go smite...you are rather brain dead yourself ;D so don't go around repeating the same old thing as if it's some kind of note worthy revelation.

    one more thing, just because something offers "omfg damage ownz" dps, doesn't mean it's "fun". i like mage style of dps better than warlock, so that's why i lean more towards smite than shadow. if the same spell does 5000 damage, i'd rather see everything blows up instantly taking 5000 damage than "wait for it, wait for it, 500 per tick, tick every 3 seconds". numbers are more "bursty" cuz they are bigger you see? eventhough in reality they are not

  9. #29

    Re: holy dps question

    What if your 5% from killing a boss... and too many DPS have died for whatever reason, and you have more than enough healers alive to keep the remaining folks up? You are dangerously close to the enrage timer...

    Would it not be good to know as a holy priest what your maximum DPS rotation is? Your damage could mean the difference between boss kill and boss wipe.

    Lemmie get your responses out of the way:

    lawlz u r bad. if u r wiping on bosses u suck. ensidia cleared all content already, nothing iz hard anymore. if ur dps iz dead, u suck as a healer. and ur dps suck cause their dead. ur tanks suck cause ur deeps iz dead. l2p, k, thx, bai.

  10. #30
    Brewmaster Lustinus's Avatar
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    Re: holy dps question

    HolyDPS??? O.o

  11. #31

    Re: holy dps question

    @SpiritusVex - correct me if I'm wrong, but there are many scenarios for that case. For example, the holy priest doesn't have mana because he healed. Or, doesn't have hit rating. 5% can be a lot of HP, for example let's take 5% of 16 million of Yogg-Saron - it's not a small amount of HP. Also, the priest knows the optimal dps rotation but he had people dying (ok, people can die often because they're dumb) but I just can't see that holy priest makes that difference as optimal dpser and yet there are people dead. Yes, we can think of thousands of way of what could happen but in the end - dpsers dps, healers heal, tanks tank. IF they go their jobs good, boss goes down.

  12. #32

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    @SpiritusVex - correct me if I'm wrong, but there are many scenarios for that case. For example, the holy priest doesn't have mana because he healed. Or, doesn't have hit rating. 5% can be a lot of HP, for example let's take 5% of 16 million of Yogg-Saron - it's not a small amount of HP. Also, the priest knows the optimal dps rotation but he had people dying (ok, people can die often because they're dumb) but I just can't see that holy priest makes that difference as optimal dpser and yet there are people dead. Yes, we can think of thousands of way of what could happen but in the end - dpsers dps, healers heal, tanks tank. IF they go their jobs good, boss goes down.
    I agree. If tanks tank, and deeps deep, and healers heal... and the strategy is good, and people don't stand in the fire, and no one d/cs... etc etc. Then the boss goes down.

    I don't think anyone has argued that Smite dps is viable. Only that knowing what the optimal rotation is not a bad thing. It can only make you a more complete player.

    I'm not saying roll into Ulduar as smite dps... and I'm not saying holy priests should be smiting inbetween heals... but I think there is virtue in knowing every inch of what your spec is capable of.

    EDIT: I think the "fun" aspect is subjective. Fun, to some, is topping the meters. Fun, to others, is the playstyle of their class... or even the "feel" (ie- warlocks= evil shadow casters, pallies= holy warriors). I think we people say smite is "fun" is because:

    (1) It is different. That isn't a bad thing (unless your a commie). People like trying to make different things work. (e.g.- Diablo II)
    (2) It offers a "feel" that no other class provides. It is the holy "caster," not the holy "warrior." Many who enjoy the "feel" of playing a caster of the light... like the idea of blasting their foes with holy smiting goodness. If they wanted to be "shadow," they would've rolled a lock. This doesn't make them wrong, or make those who enjoy shadow priests wrong, its just something that they would enjoy the most that is currently not viable in the game.

  13. #33

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by Xel
    Holy Fire has a 10 second cooldown, so the duration in which Glyphed Smite can be casted is limited. Next to glyphed Smite, SW or MB is your next best spell depending on your spellpower. Ignoring cooldowns, here's the numbers in terms of damage per second:

    @ 2000 spellpower:
    Smite < SW < MB < G.Smite < G.SW
    1246 < 1337 < 1431 < 1495 < 1537

    @ 2500 spellpower:
    Smite < SW < MB < G.SW < G.Smite
    1450 < 1508 < 1595 < 1659 < 1740
    Not exactly sure about your numbers, but i concede the DPE (damage per execute time) of MB is > smite when the holy fire dot isn't present. I'm not convinced SW is though, it would appear to be very close to that of smite, and considering there is 0 holy resist i'd argue that smite is the better option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xel
    as for why do people choose smite rather than shadow?

    ... i like mage style of dps better than warlock, so that's why i lean more towards smite than shadow.
    This explains my point... priests aren't mages, if you dont like the priest style of dps, roll a mage?

  14. #34

    Re: holy dps question

    it's damage / cast time, with SW using 1.5 GCD

    G.SW stand for glyphed SW

    glyphed sw:d has the following damage multiplier:

    darkness 5/5 10%
    focused power 2/2 4%
    twin discipline 5/5 5%
    glyph mob under 35% health 10%

    so that's (based damage + spellpower x coefficient) x 1.10 x 1.04 x 1.05 x 1.10 = xx

    so G.SW end up surpassing MB and unglyphed smite.

  15. #35

    Re: holy dps question

    and if you look at the wws stats, boss do resist smite damage so i don't think that part count.

  16. #36

    Re: holy dps question

    I tried lolsmite in ZA and BT, it suffers from two problems. Lack of a crit damage multiplier (mentioned already) and a total lack of hit. In the current system we need to be hit capped without tallents, most people get +3-5% for 1-5 tallent points. That's alot of hit and comes at the loss of crit, an essedtial component of the spec.

  17. #37

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by Xel
    and if you look at the wws stats, boss do resist smite damage so i don't think that part count.
    WRONG - All bosses (coz they are 3 lvls above you) get a natural 3% magic mitigation... this is not to be confused with resists that work from resistance mechanics.

  18. #38

    Re: holy dps question

    I think the ppl who say "RAWR IF U WANNA DPS U GOTSTA GO SHADOW" are just scared that if smite ever gets buffed, and winds up say 0.5% ahead of shadow dps, that theyll be "forced" to play smite(which they may not enjoy) to keep up on dps.
    Some of the posts (the ones by Worshaka) makes it sound as though they would prefer the game to only have 1 class, with 1 tree for tanking, 1 for healing, and 1 for dps...
    But when its put like that - doesnt sound like much fun, does it?

    On another note tho, smite is fun because its different. Nothing else it quite like it, and its also a challenge (sometimes an impossible one) to try and pull your own weight in instance/raid groups. And come'on - its not like a few random smite priests in a few casual guilds/pugs will really hurt you, we gotta be at least as good as the random DK with downs that said pug would have picked up instead.

    Fwiw tho, if blizz continues its current talent design philosophy, we may eventually see smite becoming a more viable dps spec... as you can see via the DK/Feral trees, theyve at least somewhat figured out how to shove 2 roles into 1 tree, and im 99% sure ive seen a GC post that said that theyd like to do that with other trees... sadly tho i cant find the quote - so if some1 could like it thatd be appriciated.

  19. #39

    Re: holy dps question

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    WRONG - All bosses (coz they are 3 lvls above you) get a natural 3% magic mitigation... this is not to be confused with resists that work from resistance mechanics.
    All bosses have a static resist amount (it was like 18 in TBC wasn't it?), to every spell school. Frost, Fire, Arcane, Shadow, Nature and even Holy. Especially Holy. Just because players don't have a resist stat to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  20. #40

    Re: holy dps question

    There is indeed a holy resistance stat in the game, but it's not listed on your character sheet, and no gear has holy resistance on it. But try this chain of script commands ingame someday if you want to see what your holy resistance is.

    /script SendChatMessage("My base armor is ".. UnitResistance("player", 0));
    /script SendChatMessage("My holy resistance is ".. UnitResistance("player", 1));
    /script SendChatMessage("My fire resistance is ".. UnitResistance("player", 2));
    /script SendChatMessage("My nature resistance is ".. UnitResistance("player", 3));
    /script SendChatMessage("My frost resistance is ".. UnitResistance("player", 4));
    /script SendChatMessage("My shadow resistance is ".. UnitResistance("player", 5));
    /script SendChatMessage("My arcane resistance is ".. UnitResistance("player", 6));
    Source: http://www.wowwiki.com/API_UnitResistance

    Disclaimer: It is still disputed whether index 1 in the resistance table equals holy resistance or just general spell resistance, but the two are generally interchangable.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

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