How does arcane perform deep in Ulduar?

[Qiladin]

I've fought everything in the first 2 levels and arcane hasnt seen to be an issue. My dps is still up there, always finishing in the top couple slots. I'm seeing all of this talk in game and on forums about ttw/fire and thinking if I should change to that to my main spec and leaving arcane for my dual.

Any opinions would be much appreciated.

[rabbimojo]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'first 2 levels'.. Is that:
Level 1 = FL/ignis/razorscale (maybe XT?)
Level 2 = kolo/auriaya/council (maybe XT?)
?
Assuming this is what you mean..

Anyways, the truth is that the encounters are not dramatically different.
The one notable change on the keepers is that you'll get two buffs on Hodir:
-Charges a nearby friendly target with lightning, increasing critical strike damage by 135% for 30 sec.
and
-Envelops a location in starlight for 1 min, increasing the attack and casting speed of friendly units within it.
The latter was a 100% haste last I saw, though I think it was nerfed?

Anyways, I can imagine these buffs benefitting deep fire more. Those massive crits will lead to insane ignites. I'm not sure about relative haste scaling between the specs, but that's something you can think on. (I can't remember.. would 100% haste cause problems with ignite munching or something? Does such a thing exist? ;P I'm not a maaaage)

Another fight of note is Vezax, where mana efficiency can mean something. However, you should realistically be able to do fine as any spec there, some might just take a bit more attention than others.

For what it's worth, our fire mages aren't doing exceptionally well in Uld, but they're up against some pretty exceptional players.

So, long story short: I think Arcane is probably still fine.

[Armond]

-Charges a nearby friendly target with lightning, increasing critical strike damage by 135% for 30 sec.
and
-Envelops a location in starlight for 1 min, increasing the attack and casting speed of friendly units within it.
The latter was a 100% haste last I saw, though I think it was nerfed?

Crit strike damage is definitely better for fire, but it's not like Arcane doesn't appreciate it (especially with 1.4m CD on Arcane Power).

100% haste is kinda bullshit as the GCD is capped at 50% haste (which is actually a 33% GCD reduction, to 1s, because it uses a different formula). Also that'd be pretty super overpowered (3b abarr every 4 seconds? yes please). Perhaps by 100% haste you mean 50% normal cast time? That's actually 50% haste (just as Bloodlust is 30% haste and reduces cast time to 70% normal).

Regardless, the haste buff is awesome for Arcane, assuming you can stand in it.

Another fight of note is Vezax, where mana efficiency can mean something. However, you should realistically be able to do fine as any spec there, some might just take a bit more attention than others.

For what it's worth, our fire mages aren't doing exceptionally well in Uld, but they're up against some pretty exceptional players.

If you're not blowing Evocation on CD as Arcane, something's off. And you should be able to manage that even on mana-intensive fights.

Also FFB/FB specs seem to have lower overall DPS (across all fights, on Patchwerk/Loatheb achievement/XT if you're not on adds [much], whatever...) than Arcane does. At least, that's my experience.

Also also, having to move when you're in the middle of a FB/FFB cast sucks. As Arcane you have shorter casts (less time lost per cast interrupted) and an instant-cast main nuke (meaning at any point in time you should be able to do comparably excellent damage while moving). The only damage Fire can do while moving comes from Hot Streak (which procs off of casting other spells, so...), LB (admittedly significant while glyphed), and Scorch debuff (assuming situations where less than all the raid's dps casters need to stop dps).

Also also also, just buy dual-spec if you're that worried about it. If you feel like your dps isn't cutting it and you keep wiping at 2%, switch out and give it a go. Me personally, I'll stick to Arcane until they shake the tree up.

[rabbimojo]

..
100% haste is kinda bullshit as the GCD is capped at 50% haste (which is actually a 33% GCD reduction, to 1s, because it uses a different formula). Also that'd be pretty super overpowered (3b abarr every 4 seconds? yes please). Perhaps by 100% haste you mean 50% normal cast time? That's actually 50% haste (just as Bloodlust is 30% haste and reduces cast time to 70% normal).

Regardless, the haste buff is awesome for Arcane, assuming you can stand in it.

I mean 100% haste. As a destro I was seeing incins well below 1 second. I forget exactly how low, but it was really absurd. GCD city.
100% haste doesn't negatively affect those with longer casts, IE starfire works fine, before other buffs. GCD is over long before you get done casting. This is perhaps in arcane's favor, as I can imagine fireball, with lust, passive haste, and the haste buff, getting below 1 sec. arcane missiles on the other hand, I don't think can ever goes that low, ignoring halved cast time procs.

If you're not blowing Evocation on CD as Arcane, something's off. And you should be able to manage that even on mana-intensive fights.

You can't evocate on Vezax. You're immune to mana regeneration mechanics. Can't life tap, can't mana pot, can't mana gem. For mana-heavy specs this can be crippling.

One thing I remembered after submitting the previous post.. Mimiron and Freya both have 'dps boost' buffs. They're just flat multipliers, but only work within a certain window. I'm not sure what the standard arcane spec is now, but I know that TTW doesn't get IV. IV may provide the edge for specs that use it.. FFB, and.. maybe deep arcane? I don't know. It's something worth considering.

Anyways, OP, the fact of the matter is that specs vary fight to fight. In general, it isn't a big deal. If you find yourself annoyed by a certain fight, dual spec to something else. This is the beauty of being a purist: Nobody asks you to have a heal or tank spec as your dual (our guild considers it sort of mandatory, just because of fluctuating attendance). So, you're free to respec just fight-to-fight.

e.g. our rogues are working on gearing separately for both muti and combat, and using muti on murderable mobs, combat on others (or on fights that emphasize burst cooldowns, such as XT).

[Swizzle]

100% haste is an instant cast.

[Armond]

100% haste would mean instant cast on everything. (Ninja'd by Swizzle.) However, 0% mana regained throughout the course of the fight is "oh shit!". Fortunately, Vezax isn't quite that bad (though I expect you'll have to switch to a one-blast rotation for the majority of the fight). Once you get used to the debuff, the bigger question becomes whether 2t7 bonus will trigger if the gem gives no mana.

Yes, Fire would be significantly better on Vezax. Fortunately for me, that doesn't mean you can't learn the fight as Arcane. I've yet to buy dual spec since I never PvP (which has been problematic on Razorscale/Iron Council) and I'm not willing to blow the 100g and port time for one fight.

Also, if my base AM cast time were reduced to ~2s (what I get on a mbarr proc after my really crappy haste), I would be using it on every rotation. AM is lower DPS than ABarr until somewhere around that point (and is thus never used under normal circumstances until you get a mbarr proc).

[Deleted]

100% haste is an instant cast.

Fail. 100% haste reduces cast-time by 50%.

[Mightymage]

Having killed all bosses up to Vezax and had tried him aswell as arcane, i still think arcane performs well.

With all the cd's you have and them having a fairly low cd time, you will most likely have them ready for when you need to nuke. Razorscale groundphases, XT-002 Heart, rune of power, shadowcrashes etc.

And no, the 100% haste buff from the hodir encounter do not give you instant casts.

[Swizzle]

Fail. 100% haste reduces cast-time by 50%.

no....100% haste is a 100% cast time reduction, the same way my 17% haste is a 17% cast time reduction, see how that works?

[Raktor]

no....100% haste is a 100% cast time reduction, the same way my 17% haste is a 17% cast time reduction, see how that works?

100% haste is not a 100% cast time reduction..

[Grovian]

100% haste is not a 100% cast time reduction..

Oh i can add to this as well.

My Dad can beat up your Dad!!!

Man if your going to take the time to respond to a post, back it up with something!

[Deleted]

100% haste means you get two casts of a spell in the time of one unhasted -> 50% reduction.

[Tanaro]

100% haste means you get two casts of a spell in the time of one unhasted -> 50% reduction.

Exactly this.

[Swizzle]

so i guess my 17% haste is actually only a 8.5% cast time reduction even though the math done shows it as being a 17% reduction? man, this shits crazy.

[Joobieo]

so i guess my 17% haste is actually only a 8.5% cast time reduction even though the math done shows it as being a 17% reduction? man, this shits crazy.

Yuppp....

[Grayswandir]

so i guess my 17% haste is actually only a 8.5% cast time reduction even though the math done shows it as being a 17% reduction? man, this shits crazy.

Attack_speed = "current attack speed" / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )

Let's use "Fireball" as an example, assuming no Talent buffs has a 3.5 second cast time.

Speed = 3.5 / ((100/100)+1)
Speed = 1.75
1.75 > 0, Not Instant Cast

Your example with 17%.
Speed = 3.5 / ((17/100)+1)
Speed = 2.9915

Show me your math? ???

[jhemfl]

Also FFB/FB specs seem to have lower overall DPS (across all fights, on Patchwerk/Loatheb achievement/XT if you're not on adds [much], whatever...) than Arcane does. At least, that's my experience.

Well Arcane might seem to have higher DPS on those fights because Arcane has more burst.

Patchwerk fight is 2 minutes (If your a fully geared raid). So Damage Per Second is a shit ton because the fight is so short. Same with an Arcane Mage focusing on the heart during XT.

Sounds like your Arcane Mages are better geared than your Fire/TTW Mages, cause I haven't had an Arcane Mage come close to me since I specced Fire/TTW.

[0eyvind]

so i guess my 17% haste is actually only a 8.5% cast time reduction even though the math done shows it as being a 17% reduction? man, this shits crazy.

Just think of it this way.

100% haste = 100% more spells cast in the same amount of time.
50% haste = 50% more spells cast in the sam amount of time.

Or am i wrong?

[Deleted]

That's correct 0eyvind.

so i guess my 17% haste is actually only a 8.5% cast time reduction even though the math done shows it as being a 17% reduction? man, this shits crazy.

No it's more like a 14.5% reduction.

[Armond]

Well Arcane might seem to have higher DPS on those fights because Arcane has more burst.

Patchwerk fight is 2 minutes (If your a fully geared raid). So Damage Per Second is a shit ton because the fight is so short. Same with an Arcane Mage focusing on the heart during XT.

Sounds like your Arcane Mages are better geared than your Fire/TTW Mages, cause I haven't had an Arcane Mage come close to me since I specced Fire/TTW.

Good job picking the one fight that I included only because people look at it more than any other even though I gave two other examples because the first one was terrible. Though I should have clarified that I really meant Loatheb achievement even though I gave two other examples.