12/0/59

[Xmile]

Well i think I'm going to try this spec.. Went to the 0/10/61 vs 12/0/59 post and no spec was there...
tryied my own specc but there are some thing i think im missing like 3/3 blood-caked strikes... can any one link some 12/0/59 specc with glyphs pls

[Jona]

This is what I use: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

You might want to change it up a little bit, though. I don't know that putting a point in Ghoul Frenzy is really worth it. I have mine in there, but may respec to put it in something more useful... Corpse Explosion, perhaps, if it proves to be useful (moar aoe plx!), but anyway, that's what I'm using right now.

[Xmile]

ok by looking to your spec i have came up with this one...
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767
its not many different just taked out the GHoul frenzy..
Dont put CE because its only needed to trash... focus on bosses

[MooDK]

Both of you are missing the importance of Dirge, it's worth more then 1 point in Necrosis.

This is the spec you should have with 12-0-59:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9855

Skipped Unholy Blight since Death Coil beats Unholy Blight until you get good enough gear to switch to 0-10-61. But if you really want Unholy Blight, then take away 1 point from Necrosis to get it.

[Zerioc]

Both of you are missing the importance of Dirge, it's worth more then 1 point in Necrosis.

This is the spec you should have with 12-0-59:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9855

Skipped Unholy Blight since Death Coil beats Unholy Blight until you get good enough gear to switch to 0-10-61. But if you really want Unholy Blight, then take away 1 point from Necrosis to get it.

This here. I personally spec into UhB just because I like it. The only thing is, with the amount of movement in Ulduar atm, taking Imp. Unholy Presence seems to be better than 2 points in Necrosis.

I'm thinking I might try speccing out of UhB since my gear isn't /0/10/61 ready and I never thought I might pull more without it >.>

[Akashiya]

Personally, i think that putting pts into Imp UP in either 12/0/59 or 0/10/61 is abit of a waste since we would be losing out on stuff here and there. Instead, juz enchant Tuskarr's vitality unto ur boots.

[Zerioc]

Personally, i think that putting pts into Imp UP in either 12/0/59 or 0/10/61 is abit of a waste since we would be losing out on stuff here and there. Instead, juz enchant Tuskarr's vitality unto ur boots.

Yeah, that was my first thought too. but I unno, EVERYONE on EJ seems to think you need Imp. UhP so I tried it out and I do like moving faster and not gimping my enchants >.>

[Jona]

Necrosis and UB both add to my dps as Unholy. I have no need for Dirge. I often have to throw DC in the middle of my rotations to avoid maxing out my RP. I don't need to generate RP faster.

Imp. Unholy Presence seems like a waste to me as well, since I am in Unholy Presence 99% of the time as it is, but I may try it for the 5% faster Rune CD's. That would be the only real benefit, imo.

[Zerioc]

Necrosis and UB both add to my dps as Unholy. I have no need for Dirge. I often have to throw DC in the middle of my rotations to avoid maxing out my RP. I don't need to generate RP faster.

Imp. Unholy Presence seems like a waste to me as well, since I am in Unholy Presence 99% of the time as it is, but I may try it for the 5% faster Rune CD's. That would be the only real benefit, imo.

You're joking right? Unless we're talking PvP you should NOT be in UhP. Blood is used to DPS for almost all specs ( there's 1 or 2 that use UhP because they need the GCDs, like the 6IT Frost spec.) Necrosis is meh. Sure it's good, but it's not amazing. Dirge can be dropped if you have 4t7 but really, you shouldn't be getting too much RP before your RP dump even if you have both.

[Jona]

You're joking right? Unless we're talking PvP you should NOT be in UhP. Blood is used to DPS for almost all specs ( there's 1 or 2 that use UhP because they need the GCDs, like the 6IT Frost spec.) Necrosis is meh. Sure it's good, but it's not amazing. Dirge can be dropped if you have 4t7 but really, you shouldn't be getting too much RP before your RP dump even if you have both.

Unholy Presence basically makes up for my (currently low) haste rating. Maybe the fact that I'm in UhP is the reason that I'm generating more RP than I need? It is nice to have UB up 100% of the time, Gargoyle when it's not on CD, and RS/DC still going, though.

[Xmile]

Thx for the help! i've taken out 1 point of necrosis and swapped to UB... but still i wanna know something.. What the hell is BiS naxx equiped? like to go 0/10/61

[hadogei]

0/10/61 in naxx gear is a no. To benefit from going in that that spec you would need significant upgrades from
ulduar.

[Qrio]

Actually you can go with 0/10/61 with BiS gear from Naxx, even with such gear it puts around 1% more dps than 12/0/59, and it obviously scales better than the latter.

So it's really a matter of preference at this point.

[Zerioc]

Unholy Presence basically makes up for my (currently low) haste rating. Maybe the fact that I'm in UhP is the reason that I'm generating more RP than I need? It is nice to have UB up 100% of the time, Gargoyle when it's not on CD, and RS/DC still going, though.

Hmmmm.



Wat? Haste is just about the worst stat for Unholy ( Before patch it was below Hit rating AFTER the 8% hit cap was reached, that's how bad it was ) So you're gimping yourself by being in UhP. Unless you're a Rune Starved spec ( 6IT Frost ) you shouldn't really be inUhP >.> That would be why you're generating so much RP but you're gimping every attack by 15% and don't need the runes to pump out more attacks ( that makes up for the 15% damage ) I'm actually kinda curious to see your armory/rotation and stuff like that now just to see what kinda numbers you'd be putting out like that O.o

[Kamakaze0zzy]

DEATHKNIGHTS SUCK!! *runs away*

[Zerioc]

Thx for the help! i've taken out 1 point of necrosis and swapped to UB... but still i wanna know something.. What the hell is BiS naxx equiped? like to go 0/10/61

Sorry, missed your post.


BiS stands for Best in Slot. So basically what we mean is you should be in the very best gear you can get out of Naxx before trying the spec ( You'll lose DPS switching over too early )

as far as what peices that actually means.... a kind fellow over on EJ has compiled a list of it for us! http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t55505-o...ng_bis_thread/ go there, look under t7, then under Unholy&Frost. If your gear is equal to, or better than, that gear then you'll wanna start doing 0/10/61.

[Jona]

Wat? Haste is just about the worst stat for Unholy ( Before patch it was below Hit rating AFTER the 8% hit cap was reached, that's how bad it was ) So you're gimping yourself by being in UhP. Unless you're a Rune Starved spec ( 6IT Frost ) you shouldn't really be inUhP >.> That would be why you're generating so much RP but you're gimping every attack by 15% and don't need the runes to pump out more attacks ( that makes up for the 15% damage ) I'm actually kinda curious to see your armory/rotation and stuff like that now just to see what kinda numbers you'd be putting out like that O.o

lol. To be honest, I've not paid a great deal of attention to gear for my DK. See, he's not quite to 80 just yet, so my gear is basically just whatever I come across. That being said, I haven't looked into what the ideal enchants are. I have a general idea, but that's about it. ;-)

My dps in UhP compared to BPres at this point only seems to be significant in PvE, where BPres does significantly more damage over UhP. In dungeons, BPres seems to just slightly out-do UhP, but this is only after having considered the difference over the past day or so (whenever you mentioned it before).

Interestingly, in BPres, I am still generating enough RP to UB > DC > DC after almost every rotation. No points in Dirge. It seems a waste because SS does quite a bit more damage (particularly the crits) than DC, but I hate seeing 100 RP in the corner of my screen. I have started clipping UB subconsciously now. I haven't noticed any difference between UhP and BPres as far as RP gen goes.

My armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Thanatology

As you can see, the armor is 99% quest item rewards. I don't know if you can simulate the dps or not. Maybe I should do some targeting dummy practice and compare UhP vs. BPres results?

[Garacaious]

This is what I use: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767


You might want to change it up a little bit, though. I don't know that putting a point in Ghoul Frenzy is really worth it. I have mine in there, but may respec to put it in something more useful... Corpse Explosion, perhaps, if it proves to be useful (moar aoe plx!), but anyway, that's what I'm using right now.

I registered just to throw my 2 cents into this

Actually Corpse Explosion is much more lackluster then Ghoul Frenzy. Considering that ghoul death is a huge possibility in Ulduar, 30 seconds of downtime without one should he die is not acceptable. He accounts for 10-15% of your dps output, and having a heal on him that you can tie to blood tap if your bone shield doesn't fail is pretty handy. (Note that if, blood tap should be also tied to your Bone shield, with it getting priority) However, if you can keep Bone Shield up then use the blood taps for Ghoul Frenzy and work it into your rotation. It is a DPS increase and is much nicer on Boss Encounters (aka you can actually use it) then Corpse explosion.

The other fellow comments on iUP and why not to take it. For the love of god take it. Until UP recieves some kind of buff or our dps system changes, Blood Presence is and will forever be the superior presence to dps in. Ulduar is a very heavy movement based raid environment. The boot enchants only give a 8% speed benefit, which is lower then iUP will give in BP. 15% movement to a melee class, move faster on movement based fights translates directly into more time on the boss. Again, DPS gain.

Dirge is not an optional Talent, neither is Unholy Blight. Unholy Blight is a net DPS gain, granted not as high as it was in Naxx but on what planet are you lads on where an aura that deals damage is not a net gain? Unless you have enough Crit to force DC up to something like the 65% crit chance (math is out there look for it) then it will never get to the point that the GCD you used on UB will be better spent on DC. Dirge yeilds more runic power. Since 80% of your rotation is Scourge Strike, Why are you throwing away 5 RP per special? More RP directly translates again into more DPS, whether its more DC's or a longer lasting Gargoyle it always comes up a win.

Necrosis is the actual lackluster talent out of the lot that you should be considering depriving yourself from, it only benefits off your autoswings and since your not building haste sets(dear sweet god i hope not ) then its use is static, as its net boon is in the neighbourhood of like a 3% dps increase for those 5 points. 5!!!! points! Thats almost the equivilant of Boneshield, and it costs 1 point

If your in 4T7 (don't be in a rush to get to T8, T7 > T8 if you have the 4 set bonus for dps) then run the unholy sub frost spec.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9767

If your gear is not optimized quite yet stay sub blood spec, and if your not in the 4T7 set bonus area skip the glyph of Dark Death and get glyph of Unholy blight as it yields bigger returns until then.

This is the collection of information I have gathered and through what testing i have preformed. Elitest Jerks forums are a brilliant resource and if you have the time read the entire DK unholy thread ( will take a very long time but i promise the amount of information there is priceless ) I encourage you to do so, I am not the greatest at math but those lads are wizards sometimes.

Knowledge is Power

[Nyanmaru]

Interestingly, in BPres, I am still generating enough RP to UB > DC > DC after almost every rotation. No points in Dirge. It seems a waste because SS does quite a bit more damage (particularly the crits) than DC, but I hate seeing 100 RP in the corner of my screen. I have started clipping UB subconsciously now. I haven't noticed any difference between UhP and BPres as far as RP gen goes.

1 Rotation = 20s or 10s ?

The maximum possible Runic Power for an Unholy DK in 10s is with Dirge + 4pc T7 doing 3 SS for 90 RP

Let's simulate:
Skill used / 4pcT7+dirge / dirge / nothing
IT 10 10 10
PS 25 25 20
BS 35 35 30
BS 45 45 40
SS 75 65 55
UB 35 25 15
- (10 seconds)
SS 65 45 30
SS 95 65 45
SS 125 85 60
DC 85 45 20
DC 45 5 -
DC 5 - -
- (20 seconds)
Without dirge, you have 25 RP less, thus are only be able to use a second DC every 40s.

The presence doesn#t matter on RP gen, RP gen is limited by talents and glyphs and not influenced by presence.

If you happen to have excess RP while soloing or in groups, than it's not that you genereate too much RP, but more like that you are slacking with dumping your RP when your runes are on CD.


About the DpS difference of Unholy vs. Blood Presence, that's pretty simple:

You do: 100 hits + 100 strikes

Blood Presence 15% dmg nets the dmg of:
115 hits + 115 strikes

Unholy Presence 15% haste nets the dmg of:
115 hits + 100 strikes

15% more hits is the same as 15% harder hits, but as long as you don't get your runes in 15% faster, there is no difference in the number of strikes (SS, BS, PS, IT, etc.) that you can use over 10s and so that's where the 15% matter, but the GCD reduction doesn't (except you use the 6 IT frost build, which would mean 6 IT = 180 RP = ~5,5 FS = 11-12 strikes that would mean 16,5s because of GCD in Blood but only 11-12s of GCDs in UPr so you can nearly start using the refreshed runes immediately and so without loosing precious DpS but even this drastic example only yielded a minor dps increase compared to BPr)

Though, while solo questing I liked frost presence the most because I was too lazy to DS or had to big pulls to stay alive in BPr =)

[Xmile]

OK this last 2 post really messed up with my head but it clarified many things...
Yesterday i got my T7.5 legs reaching the goal of the 4T 7/7.5 set bonus..
Will 0/10/61 be better at this moment??