Feral Druids - the Bear guide

[arel00]

first of all, a very good post indeed, thanks for the effort.

regarding the T8 25man level feral tanking gear, i would put Belt of the Twilight Assassin (from emblems) or Death-warmed Belt in BiS

And for the tanking weapon, i think Dark Edge of Depravity is definitely the BiS for feral tanking instead of Twisted Visage (XT-002 HC)

The T8 model is pretty outdated now, thanks for kind-of reminding me that, I'll try to check on with the latest stats evaluations and set up a more accurate one. Note that it also lacked most Hardmodes back then.

[Imadroodlol]

With the reduced amount of dodge we'll receive and the increased amount of agility/dodge rating after the release of 3.2, would if be maybe better to gem for stamina over agility?

[XvampyrexrisingX]

Great guide, it helped me a lot gearing up my druid's offspec for tanking!

I have two questions though:

How important is hit? I have around 210 hit and can use buff food to get to the ~230 cap for Alliance, but I am not sure if it is worth it over, say, a Fish Feast.

and.
Are there any add-ons that help keep track if you lose agro on a mob that you aren't targetting?
Sometimes it's hard to tell with a big group if you lose agro if they don't run to their target, such as caster mobs, or if they attack melee players nearby, and I'd like more warning than my healer screaming "get this thing off me!"

[Yohassakura]

Hit's okay but if you have no aggro problems then there's no need to go out of your way for it.

You can use Grid, it's more of a raidui, but you can make it so a big red box appears on anyone who has aggro, more useful for paladins i suppose for righteous defense but you should be spamming swipe, maul and tab on aoe packs ayways

And no, Agi *should* still be king.

[arel00]

Hit's okay but if you have no aggro problems then there's no need to go out of your way for it.

You can use Grid, it's more of a raidui, but you can make it so a big red box appears on anyone who has aggro, more useful for paladins i suppose for righteous defense but you should be spamming swipe, maul and tab on aoe packs ayways

And no, Agi *should* still be king.

He is basically right.

Great guide, it helped me a lot gearing up my druid's offspec for tanking!

I have two questions though:

How important is hit? I have around 210 hit and can use buff food to get to the ~230 cap for Alliance, but I am not sure if it is worth it over, say, a Fish Feast.

Most problems with Hit are related to TPS and resisted Growls, however, these are major issues only if you're very low, normally under or around 100 rating. At over 200 as you are, capping isn't essential, although you may consider a slight switch on a single item if you find something worth it.
Elseway, you can just go with the food as you mentioned. Fish Feast's TPS bonus isn't that big of a deal, so if you wanna trade 80AP for 40hit you won't really be noticing any drop in aggro.

and.
Are there any add-ons that help keep track if you lose agro on a mob that you aren't targetting?
Sometimes it's hard to tell with a big group if you lose agro if they don't run to their target, such as caster mobs, or if they attack melee players nearby, and I'd like more warning than my healer screaming "get this thing off me!"

I don't know on a specific addon I'm afraid. As Yohassakura mentioned, Grid can show you which players in raid have aggro, regardless of the mob you're targeting. I tend to use that same function myself, it's of great use in situations like, Thorim's arena. Basically if you see red signals from anyone in raid beside the tank(s), then you know who's in trouble (which I mostly love on my paladin, due to Righteous Defense mechanic).

With the reduced amount of dodge we'll receive and the increased amount of agility/dodge rating after the release of 3.2, would if be maybe better to gem for stamina over agility?

Not really, as in, not really more than now. Balancing stamina and agility on gems is probably one of the oldest, longest and sometimes most harsh debates that have been going on in WoW since TBC.
Thing is, as for 3.2 they simply trying to put all tanks avoidance more in line and re-evaluate some stats. While this is undoubtedly a nerf for druids ability to dodge lots of attacks, it's mostly just a slight change.
My best suggestion regarding this thing is: keep your stats priority in mind, and then arrange accordingly to your specific needs and your raid mates. If you feel a Delicate (ruby) type, all good, if you feel more of a Shifting type, still all good. If you feel like a Solid type, just be careful not to drop too low on dodge.

[Safiroth]

I almost have every part of the BiS items but i'm dps
sorry for off-topic doh :P

[lilbandit]

may have already been said on previous pages, but :

RAWR model T8-level 25men Best-In-Slot list (take it as it comes, this will be updated and changed as new loot and more testing is done):

Head: Garona's Guise (Yogg-Saron HC)
Neck: Mark of the Unyelding (Kologarn normal)
Shoulders: Conqueror's Nightsong Shoulderpads
Back: Drape of the Faceless General (General Vezax normal - hard mode)
Chest: Conqueror's Nightsong Rainments
Bracers: Mechanist's Bindings (Flame Leviathan HC)
Gloves: Conqueror's Nightsong Handgrips
Belt: Soul Devouring Clinch (Yogg-Saron normal - hard mode)
Legs: Conqueror's Nightsong Leggings
Feet: Footpads of Silence (crafted)
Ring1: The Leviathan's Coil (Flame Leviathan HC)
Ring2: Loop of the Agile (Iron Council normal - hard mode)
Trinket1: Darkmoon Card: Greatness (crafted/quest)
Trinket2: Heart of Iron (Ignis HC)

Weapon: Twisted Visage (XT-002 HC)

Idol: Idol of the Corruptor (General Vezax HC)

Fluxing energy coils (hard mode XT 10) is BiS for bracers
Runed ironhide boots (IC normal mode 25) is BiS for boots.

[arel00]

Tier 8 level item list has been updated, as per the last version of RAWR, optimized for hard modes. I hope this makes it more reliable. However, since it's based on a model and not on real experience, please don't jump on me saying "OMFG that's false". I took data as it was, since some of the items are beyond the scope of my guild (YS25 1keeper *cough* Algalon 25 *cough*).

[Sunshine]

Tier 8 level item list has been updated, as per the last version of RAWR, optimized for hard modes.

Might be good to keep a normal mode BiS gear list also, since there's no way to walk in with the T7 BiS list and magically acquire the hardmode BiS list... would give a nice stepping stone.

[arel00]

Might be good to keep a normal mode BiS gear list also, since there's no way to walk in with the T7 BiS list and magically acquire the hardmode BiS list... would give a nice stepping stone.

Ask and be answered. Done.

[Sunshine]

Ask and be answered. Done.

Awesome.

[rohendar]

Okay, I've been tanking everything on my druid since end of TBC, being MT/OT on every boss encounter in the entire WotLK. Since the original post is more oriented towards people getting into feral tanking I merely skimmed it. Generally speaking it says all the right things a person needs to know. It remains vague on certain points, but never to the point where info is actually incorrect.

However, the specs mentioned can be completely tossed out the window. Any spec not using Infected Wounds as a bear tank in the game we are currently playing is just plain crap. 20% Haste debuff on the boss is the fundamental tank move. You can not tank without this effect being active on your target. The only way you can ever justify a spec without Infected Wounds, is when you have another person applying this effect for you.

Now since this thread will probably be used by people getting into bear tanking, we can safely assume a large portion of the people reading this thread are looking for info that will let them tank 5man normals/heroics. In a 5 man group the 1 tank, is the only tank, DUH. So you as a tank have to be doing the 20% Haste debuff yourself. There is no one else to provide it for you. Tanking anything over lvl 75 5 mans, without Infected Wounds, is basically saying "screw you" to your healer. You're forcing him into doing added healing, which you could have prevented.

But it's not just 5 man groups. Even in your raid group, you can not justify not speccing Infected Wounds. If you look at Ulduar 10 man, you can, and should be, tanking nearly every boss in there with just 1 tank. Again there is no one else providing the 20% Haste debuff effect. But even if you look at 25 Ulduar, you can't really justify not having this talent either. Even on bossfights requiring multiple tanks, most of them, you'll be the only tank on your target. Iron Council, you might use 2-3 tanks total, but you'll be the only one of your target. Again, you need Infected Wounds.

In between 5 mans and Ulduar lays a whole bunch of other instances, but why not spec into something that will be worthwhile everywhere. The rest of my advice might have no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience, but trust me on the sun screen ... euhm the Infected Wounds.

[arel00]

All true, however, 2 out of 4 specs that are listed in the thread include Infected Wounds. Also, I never made a spec guide, I merely posted the most commonly used.

[getefix]

Okay, I've been tanking everything on my druid since end of TBC, being MT/OT on every boss encounter in the entire WotLK. Since the original post is more oriented towards people getting into feral tanking I merely skimmed it. Generally speaking it says all the right things a person needs to know. It remains vague on certain points, but never to the point where info is actually incorrect.

However, the specs mentioned can be completely tossed out the window. Any spec not using Infected Wounds as a bear tank in the game we are currently playing is just plain crap. 20% Haste debuff on the boss is the fundamental tank move. You can not tank without this effect being active on your target. The only way you can ever justify a spec without Infected Wounds, is when you have another person applying this effect for you.

Now since this thread will probably be used by people getting into bear tanking, we can safely assume a large portion of the people reading this thread are looking for info that will let them tank 5man normals/heroics. In a 5 man group the 1 tank, is the only tank, DUH. So you as a tank have to be doing the 20% Haste debuff yourself. There is no one else to provide it for you. Tanking anything over lvl 75 5 mans, without Infected Wounds, is basically saying "screw you" to your healer. You're forcing him into doing added healing, which you could have prevented.

But it's not just 5 man groups. Even in your raid group, you can not justify not speccing Infected Wounds. If you look at Ulduar 10 man, you can, and should be, tanking nearly every boss in there with just 1 tank. Again there is no one else providing the 20% Haste debuff effect. But even if you look at 25 Ulduar, you can't really justify not having this talent either. Even on bossfights requiring multiple tanks, most of them, you'll be the only tank on your target. Iron Council, you might use 2-3 tanks total, but you'll be the only one of your target. Again, you need Infected Wounds.

In between 5 mans and Ulduar lays a whole bunch of other instances, but why not spec into something that will be worthwhile everywhere. The rest of my advice might have no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience, but trust me on the sun screen ... euhm the Infected Wounds.

I've been saying this since I started posting here but some people prefer the threat route. Stam stackers have to maximize their spec for threat instead of damage reduction. There are three things that a tank wants:

threat
stam
damage reduction (IW, avoidance, armor, SD procs)

Different tanks rate these three differently. Tanks that have been around as long as you have feel that their way of tanking is superior to all other ways (I agree with your point on IW, however). Some tanks will never be convinced that agility is better than stam, or that stam is better than agility. It's personal (and guild) preference.

[Eluniar]

Brilliant guide mate! One question, on progress is it better to just stack Stamina or still go for a mix of Agility and Stamina, gemwise i mean.

[Sunshine]

Brilliant guide mate! One question, on progress is it better to just stack Stamina or still go for a mix of Agility and Stamina, gemwise i mean.

This is the subject of a holy war. The general idea with stamina is to have "enough", then focus on other things (dodge through agility, etc). There's not much point to stam after the "enough" point -- if you never get below 40% hp, then you probably have too much hp for the fight you're dealing with Figure out what's "enough" for you, your healers, and your raid, for the encounters you're dealing with. Get that much, then focus on agility.

As a general purpose suggestion, try a mix of both and adjust towards either agi or stam depending on how things go.

[arel00]

Generally, a wise mixing of agility and stamina would be safer for progressing through new content. That because you'd want, as Sunshine said, to keep a "safe" level of health, which can be higher in a new content due to various factors, changes in mitigation, uber-extra-hard boss damage, and so on.
It all depends on your gear and your healers. Mostly, combining two stats works well, then again, this is an endless war. Personally I tend to favor agility and make sure my gear has enough health from other means, even though lately I'm stiching to specific items with low stamina and I'm mixing the stats on the gems.
A general advise towards stamina stacking is when you reach the UBER-hard hardmodes. That simply because the bosses can deal so large unmitigated attacks (Algalon's Big Bang, e.g.) that you simply need raw health to stay alive. However, that's a pretty situational thing. Bosses that do large, but mitigated hits, such as strong melee attacks, can usually be dealt with effectively by stacking avoidance. Still, it depends on how much health turns out to be "safe". And that depends on your raid I'm afraid.

[Demorz]

Okay, I've been tanking everything on my druid since end of TBC, being MT/OT on every boss encounter in the entire WotLK. Since the original post is more oriented towards people getting into feral tanking I merely skimmed it. Generally speaking it says all the right things a person needs to know. It remains vague on certain points, but never to the point where info is actually incorrect.

However, the specs mentioned can be completely tossed out the window. Any spec not using Infected Wounds as a bear tank in the game we are currently playing is just plain crap. 20% Haste debuff on the boss is the fundamental tank move. You can not tank without this effect being active on your target. The only way you can ever justify a spec without Infected Wounds, is when you have another person applying this effect for you.

Now since this thread will probably be used by people getting into bear tanking, we can safely assume a large portion of the people reading this thread are looking for info that will let them tank 5man normals/heroics. In a 5 man group the 1 tank, is the only tank, DUH. So you as a tank have to be doing the 20% Haste debuff yourself. There is no one else to provide it for you. Tanking anything over lvl 75 5 mans, without Infected Wounds, is basically saying "screw you" to your healer. You're forcing him into doing added healing, which you could have prevented.

But it's not just 5 man groups. Even in your raid group, you can not justify not speccing Infected Wounds. If you look at Ulduar 10 man, you can, and should be, tanking nearly every boss in there with just 1 tank. Again there is no one else providing the 20% Haste debuff effect. But even if you look at 25 Ulduar, you can't really justify not having this talent either. Even on bossfights requiring multiple tanks, most of them, you'll be the only tank on your target. Iron Council, you might use 2-3 tanks total, but you'll be the only one of your target. Again, you need Infected Wounds.

In between 5 mans and Ulduar lays a whole bunch of other instances, but why not spec into something that will be worthwhile everywhere. The rest of my advice might have no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience, but trust me on the sun screen ... euhm the Infected Wounds.

You're not alone, I've been convincing a lot of Druids that infected wounds is a MUST in your talent tree.

Also to Arel, you can't always rightly say which piece of gear IS bis for a druid. The great thing ABOUT the class in wotlk is the way you gear/gem/ench your gear.

Also, for Greatness I've seen a majority with it, and a majority with 'The Generals Heart', which I personally perfer... I'd rather be 100% sure a specific stat will be at my aid with lesser value, than praying it will proc when in a time of need (and then to my luck WONT :P)

[arel00]

Also to Arel, you can't always rightly say which piece of gear IS bis for a druid. The great thing ABOUT the class in wotlk is the way you gear/gem/ench your gear.

You're right, I can't always say what item is BiS for a specific druid. I can very well, however, say what's the BiS for druids in general.
You have to understand that the definition of Best-In-Slot is purely mathermatical. It's the item, that, given the current available ones, increases the mitigation/avoidance/TTL ratings the most. It's not about game feeling, it's merely a formula :P The one with the highest results in a specific slot becomes the BiS.

Remember also, that that is also *limited* by being purely a formula. I don't pretend, and I don't think any raiding druid does, that math always reflects what's best for YOU and YOUR raid. That depends on loads of thing
If anything, the BiS "formula" is subjected to changes when you switch gear, but even more, what counts most is how your raid feels, and in the end, how you can perform.

Also note that I'm leaving out all gem lists for the BiS configurations. Which goes great lengths in customization already. The purpose behind making such lists is that druids which aren't familiar with that tier of content, or which aren't sure about the stats allocation, can get an idea of what they can chase after. It's simply a reference.

Regarding Infected Wounds: it *is* a mandatory talent, in general. In specific, it becomes the same as picking items :P In my case, e.g., it's completely useless, because I always have either a frost dps-DK or a pala tank that will slow the boss by 20% just using their normal rotations, and I can assure you that for both of them, picking such a talent is part of a standard build. Hence my build doesn't account for IW. Surely I may lack it on heroics and some 10men (my hardmode group for 10men includes the said DK) but then, my focus is my raids, so I specced for that.

[Puyobwoc]

As a bear, how important is barkskin?