Feral Druids - the Bear guide

[Sunshine]

I can said about Def being useless as well since it does not help a feral tank as much as resi can.

Resil does literally *nothing* for us in PvE. The only thing it provides is crit immunity, and we have enough of that via talents alone. Defense provides avoidance.

Are you using shifting dreadstones or nightmare tear in any slot? If not, you should also not use the hodir enchant on shoulder. Getting a agi/stamina gem in a good socket bonus slot (6stam/4agi per nonblue socket) is a more efficient way of gaining avoidance than using the shoulder enchant, so only get the shoulder enchant if you have socketed all shifting dreadstones you can and still find yourself needing more avoidance.

If you're going all out socketing stam and you really need that much stam, go for the stam shoulder enchant as well, like I said -- I agree with that.

In my case, I do have shifting / nightmare in quite a few slots, and that works just fine for me with the hodir enchant. You can get socket bonuses and take the hodir shoulder enchant as well. The question isn't "do I need more avoidance" -- that's not really valid, because there's no cap on avoidance. The question to ask is "do I have enough stam?" If yes, then why not get more avoidance? There's a point when stam becomes less useful (whether that's after 65k or whatever depends on your personal preference); but there's no such thing as too much avoidance.

[bavarcarus]

that flat damage reduction they added to resilience only applies to players and their pets right?

[arel00]

that flat damage reduction they added to resilience only applies to players and their pets right?

Yes, and it's clearly stated in the tooltip as well.

[Shuckles]

What in the world is the ICC BiS(non-heroic) for tanks?

I know I am no were even close, I just want to take a look at it.

[Selverein]

That's been discussed quite a bit already. Exact BiS is usually hard to determine since it kinda depends on a person's situation.

Non-heroic BiS, in my opinion, is 4pT10 plus the Sack of Wonders from Lootship. Bile-Encrusted necklace from Rotface, Toskk wrists from Saurfang, weapon from BQL (or LK if you can down him). Belt, cloak and idol from emblems. Crafted boots (I think the ones from Marrowgar have the same base stats but I like the Exp on crafted). Rings I'd go with Rep one plus the one from Dreamwalker.

Trinkets are where you're allowed more customization I guess. If you're crazy about Stam you could go with the Corroded Key plus Sindragosa's Fang. I'd keep the Unidentified Organ around and use it whenever high spikes of magic damage aren't a threat.

I would also advise getting a few extra pieces of jewelry and/or cloak with Hit to reach the cap on those fights where missing a taunt can quickly lead to a wipe.

[Sunshine]

I would also advise getting a few extra pieces of jewelry and/or cloak with Hit to reach the cap on those fights where missing a taunt can quickly lead to a wipe.

The belt from ICC10 (Soulthief's Braided Belt) isn't bad for a hit piece, although you do lose quite a bit of stam. The crit on it is nice as well...

[rated]

Crafted boots (I think the ones from Marrowgar have the same base stats but I like the Exp on crafted).

The crafted boots are actually better than the one from Marrowgar for the amount of agility/stam they provide and the fact they are better itemized (expertise !)

[Sinsa]

Hello, I'm raiding in a pretty highend guild, running ICC hardmodes in both 10 and 25man. Feralbear is my OFFSPECC so I'm not 100% certain about speccs..

It would mostly be for OTing in 10man hc, AND LK hc!

Which brings me to my question, How should my specc look like? I would like to see KotJ in it, due to 4pt t10 and the threatboost initially aswell as me swapping to cat when I don't tank.. Also, if it would be possible I would like IW so I don't depend on someone else to put it on there.

I would not be using Glyph of Mangle I think.. So unless you got some real good reasons about it, then don't include it when linking speccs please..

I don't know how this works out, if it's even possible, but if not, could you give me some options..

Hope you can help me.

Regards

[arel00]

I would suggest you two different alternatives.

The first one, is a feral hybrid build. THIS is the spec.

Let's look at it, it contains:

- on the tank side, Thick Hide, SI, PotP, NR and IW
- on the dps side, Shredding Attacks, Predatory Instincts, KotJ

You're basically giving up a bit of your Swipe damage, Imp.LotP and the threat bonuses from Imp.Mangle and/or MSS. As glyphs there are SI (mandatory for tanking), Growl (because if you're OTing and switching, you need that), and SR for last, to boost the dps.
What you're gonna do is basically tank when you're required to, and then switch to cat and have 5-Rip, 2-SR rotation (or 5-Rip 3-SR, depending on your crit).

The other alternative is more tank-oriented. THIS is the build.

Let's look at this one. It's a small variation of the standard Mangle/IW tank build, going 3/3 KotJ. In this case, you're gonna tank normally, and when going Cat, you'll be spamming Mangle to no end instead of Shredding. This is a high-CP rotation. Depending on what you want to stress the most, you can switch out form the ER glyph and pick the Mangle glyph. In this second case it will boost your Cat dps quite a lot, and give you some extra threat in Bear. At the cost of more survivability cooldown. It is up to you making this choice, it really depends on your raid alone.

[Richmond]

Personally, i'd go with

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxMG...VkbAczb:nM0Mzc

Reasons are, i OT ICC 10 at the minute (10/12). I have no experience of hard modes, but i'm guessing there will be the equilivant time as normal when it comes to time in bear/cat.

What i'm getting at, is that the very few times that you are required to pop into cat form to dps are so few and far between that its not worth gimping alot of your good tank talents to pick up the stronger cat talents. Off the top of my head, you've got Fester, dreamwalker (depending on set up) and thats about it, isnt it? Where else would you have to switch except for the occaisonal trash pull?

The reasons i went with that spec/glyphs

Didnt pick up:

Feral Instinct - this boosts your AOE threat by a large margin, but with your 2pc T10, i guess you could drop is and still keep a good amount of threat without too many issues
Imp LoTP - Erm, i have always filled this with 2 points, but after reading the tooltip and a few of my logs from recent fights, i'm starting to wonder if it worth it. (Saurfang fight i looked at was less than 1% overall healing, 41k HP to be exact)
Imp Mangle - With the recent buff to mangle (Duration now 1 minute) i see no reason to take this over imp MSS, 4% to total damage done when in bear form (Awesome) and 4% crit in cat form.
KoTJ - I've posted loads of time why this is garbage for a tank, 4pc T10 makes this a new shiney defensive cooldown, you'll be pissed if you pop it in cat form and then its not available when you actually need it in bear form.

If you have 26 Exp from gear, then i'd take your 2 points out of primal precision and put them in feral instincts.

Glyphs, i chose SI, FR and Growl. Because again, you'll be in bear form for 85% of the time, so using a cat glyph would be a bad idea imo. Of course, these can be changed on the go, so if you know you dont need Growl, then swap it out for savage roar.

[Sinsa]

Is there any possibility keeping both IW and Imp Mangle while using a MSS build? I mean, do you ruin too much to keep them both? I kinda like the rotation Imp Mangle does... But probably mostly because I'm used to it.

And if not, how important is IW for an OT in ICC10 ? I'm doing all bosses on hc if that matters.. I can be put with any other tank class and pretty much any setups, so it's not set in stone what I'm running with.

Edit: I'm talking pure tank-build now, don't think a hybrid or wasteing any points for kitty is my way to go.

[arel00]

Is there any possibility keeping both IW and Imp Mangle while using a MSS build? I mean, do you ruin too much to keep them both? I kinda like the rotation Imp Mangle does... But probably mostly because I'm used to it.

And if not, how important is IW for an OT in ICC10 ? I'm doing all bosses on hc if that matters.. I can be put with any other tank class and pretty much any setups, so it's not set in stone what I'm running with.

Edit: I'm talking pure tank-build now, don't think a hybrid or wasteing any points for kitty is my way to go.

IW as an offtank isn't as important, because you can assume the MT already covers that buff. Speed reduction is part of every standard tanking build for paladins, warriors and DKs alike.

As for keeping IW, MSS and Imp.Mangle, uhm. THIS build has the 3 of them. You're basically giving up KotJ.
On a side note, KotJ nets less threat than the other two, so this is your highest TPS build.

[Sunshine]

As for keeping IW, MSS and Imp.Mangle, uhm. THIS build has the 3 of them. You're basically giving up KotJ.

I'd think this would be better -- minus one point in OoC, plus one point in swipe. I really notice the difference in threat when I don't have full points in swipe, and realistically OoC doesn't seem to proc while mauling anyway...

I'd be hesitant to drop IW and iLotP, though, especially in heroic ICC -- there are cases (princes, putricide, lich king) where you might be the only tank on a boss, and iLotP is always nice. I'd think you'd get plenty of threat by having either IM or MSS without sacrificing those other talents.

[Sinsa]

IW as an offtank isn't as important, because you can assume the MT already covers that buff. Speed reduction is part of every standard tanking build for paladins, warriors and DKs alike.

As for keeping IW, MSS and Imp.Mangle, uhm. THIS build has the 3 of them. You're basically giving up KotJ.
On a side note, KotJ nets less threat than the other two, so this is your highest TPS build.

Yes, but it still becomes a problem on... Lady Deathwisper HC, Blood Princes, Valithria and LK, right? ^^ If only the other tank has the speed reduction...

[Deleted]

I'd think this would be better -- minus one point in OoC, plus one point in swipe. I really notice the difference in threat when I don't have full points in swipe, and realistically OoC doesn't seem to proc while mauling anyway...

I'd be hesitant to drop IW and iLotP, though, especially in heroic ICC -- there are cases (princes, putricide, lich king) where you might be the only tank on a boss, and iLotP is always nice. I'd think you'd get plenty of threat by having either IM or MSS without sacrificing those other talents.

personally ive moved ferocity to feral aggression, and primal fury to ilotp, for a spec focused purely on single target raidtanking in an unlimited rage scenario (where i want to be able to fully debuff the boss myself as well as doing max threat).

[hoot80]

That's been discussed quite a bit already. Exact BiS is usually hard to determine since it kinda depends on a person's situation.

Non-heroic BiS, in my opinion, is 4pT10 plus the Sack of Wonders from Lootship. Bile-Encrusted necklace from Rotface, Toskk wrists from Saurfang, weapon from BQL (or LK if you can down him). Belt, cloak and idol from emblems. Crafted boots (I think the ones from Marrowgar have the same base stats but I like the Exp on crafted). Rings I'd go with Rep one plus the one from Dreamwalker.

Trinkets are where you're allowed more customization I guess. If you're crazy about Stam you could go with the Corroded Key plus Sindragosa's Fang. I'd keep the Unidentified Organ around and use it whenever high spikes of magic damage aren't a threat.

I would also advise getting a few extra pieces of jewelry and/or cloak with Hit to reach the cap on those fights where missing a taunt can quickly lead to a wipe.

Ikfirus' Sack + Reputation Ring are the only items with hit on them for bears that are really worth taking from ICC. I like Sunshine's suggestion about the Soulthief Belt. If you can get to the heroic mode for this belt it is not as big of a loss over the badge belt or the one off Putricide 25. The only other real option to take without losing the armor of a necklace, cloak, or ring would be to get the bracers off Anub'Arak in 25 ToGC. That is if your guild is capable of downing him. He's still not exactly a walk in the park for most guilds because if you have more health he just heals himself more.

[arel00]

Yes, but it still becomes a problem on... Lady Deathwisper HC, Blood Princes, Valithria and LK, right? ^^ If only the other tank has the speed reduction...

Or an Enh shaman Earthshocking, an Arms warrior with utility-spec (yes, there are some) or even a Subtlety rogue. I don't know about actual numbers, but the changes to that tree looked nice, so maybe we'll see more of them in raids.
Anyhow, that depends on your raid composition. Truth be told, almost every build depends on that :P

[Sunshine]

Enh shaman would have only 10% reduction (base on Earth Shock) unless they specifically spec into a talent that isn't in the max dps build or the build with mana conservation talents (according to our shaman forums, at least).

Maybe 10% reduction is fine for those cases when you won't have another tank in range; maybe it's not.

[arel00]

Enh shaman would have only 10% reduction (base on Earth Shock) unless they specifically spec into a talent that isn't in the max dps build or the build with mana conservation talents (according to our shaman forums, at least).

Maybe 10% reduction is fine for those cases when you won't have another tank in range; maybe it's not.

True :P

Point was, it depends on the specific raid.

[bavarcarus]

anyone single tank sindragosa 25m normal wearing resist gear? I saw it brought up in a different forum that people were doing this.