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  1. #21

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by DaruneAlbane
    i did .. he did not specify anything wrong with my spec .. and i looked at his spec. both his disc and holy setup looks to me like he has no real idea what he doing or talking about am guessing his guild carries him as holy or he raids disc.
    Oh please.
    Just by the way he talks i can see that he knows full well what he is talking about.
    Maybe the raiding he does(Hardmode Ulduar bosses) is on quite a diffrent level then what you raid?

    Remember to take all things in moderation (even World of Warcraft!)
    When interacting with other players a little kindness goes a long way!

  2. #22

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    and it is better since i am not a MAIN tank healer now if i was main tank it would be worth it but since i am NOT a main tank healer you need to spec differently.

    renew as a major healing use is NOT the best .. but i did not say it was not useful.

    edit: i have not downed him due to a mismatch with my raiding schedule.

  3. #23

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by DaruneAlbane
    and it is better since i am not a MAIN tank healer now if i was main tank it would be worth it but since i am NOT a main tank healer you need to spec differently.
    am guessing his guild carries him as holy or he raids disc.
    You are in absolutely no position to claim anyone else is getting carried through anything. Seriously, sort out your spec, your gear, and get past the third boss in Ulduar, then maybe people will take you more seriously.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  4. #24

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Pewpewarrows
    Or you can Flash them to safety, pop a Renew, and go back to your job of raid healing. Less mana, more healing, less downtime from healing everyone else.
    Why use Flash, when you can have glyphed PWS? It is instant, costs less mana, absorbs more then flash heal heals, and also glyph heals for 20% of absorbed damage. Even in holy spec.

  5. #25

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by DaruneAlbane
    yes as a rotational spell GH sucks. but when used/timed properly can be awesome .. why FH 1 person 4x times when you can FH 1 to get them safe then GH for the rest of it?
    unless you are in 5man, this isn't a good tactic..

    flash heal, renew, shield .. move on... the other healers will take care of the rest... if they don't then you have other things to worry about.

    imo, instants is what seperates us from disc.... CoH, renew, PoM, shield+glyph, SoL.... i never cast GH.

    It's just a game.

  6. #26

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Incantator
    Why use Flash, when you can have glyphed PWS? It is instant, costs less mana, absorbs more then flash heal heals, and also glyph heals for 20% of absorbed damage. Even in holy spec.
    Because then your Disc priest will get pissed off that some Holy shmuck is throwing around pansy shields that do 50% as much as his does yet still apply the same Weakened Soul debuff. Leave shielding to the pros.

  7. #27

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by zizfizziks
    Because then your Disc priest will get pissed off that some Holy shmuck is throwing around pansy shields that do 50% as much as his does yet still apply the same Weakened Soul debuff. Leave shielding to the pros.
    Disc priests usually do tank healing, not the raid.

  8. #28

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Apparently I'm being carried. Good to know, I'll let my guild know.

  9. #29

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by DaruneAlbane
    i did .. he did not specify anything wrong with my spec .. and i looked at his spec. both his disc and holy setup looks to me like he has no real idea what he doing or talking about am guessing his guild carries him as holy or he raids disc.
    Haha, wow. You really have the balls to try to argue that he's being carried? First of all, his disc spec is clearly a pvp spec at the moment. You know what the arena is, right? Second, his holy spec is miles ahead of yours, and is adapted to current content. Congrats on killing the first 3 bosses in 10 man ulduar. If I were in your shoes though, I'd probably at least consider the specs proposed by the priests that have done the current content before calling them noobs.

    Here's my spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuZfxtcbMqihMcuAo

    I haven't quite killed yogg yet however. It's similar to firstaidspec's spec, but I don't like lightwell, haven't quite seen the effectiveness of spell warding yet, and am still torn between serendipity and blessed resilience. I find serendipity to be most effective in fights with sustained heavy raid damage, but I still need to try ulduar without it.

    Oh, and does anyone know specifically how well our fully talented renew stacks up against rejuvenation? My renew usually ticks for around 2kish raid buffed I think, which seems to be at least equal to our druids rejuvs. Unbuffed, my druid friends were telling me that my renew actually ticked harder than their rejuvs, is this true from what you guys know? I haven't played a resto druid since 70...

  10. #30

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Balgoth
    Hey, after 3.1 i specced to holy and im obviously now having mana problems. Although holy have always had problems i never thought id have it to the extent that i do...i mean shadowfiend hymn of hope the spirit world glass trinket, all in one fight like Xt or sarph drakes. as im typing about 10 minutes ago i got the Os trinket in the hope that it will improve my overall mana preservation. I also guess i might get trigger happy with it and cast flash heal alot but meh, any advice for better mana conservtion will be most apprechiated.

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...rand&n=Balgoth but instead of egg of mortal essence have the spirit trinket from OS. Thanks in advance
    65 MP5 while casting... wow, just wow.

  11. #31

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Maladi
    Haha, wow. You really have the balls to try to argue that he's being carried? First of all, his disc spec is clearly a pvp spec at the moment. You know what the arena is, right? Second, his holy spec is miles ahead of yours, and is adapted to current content. Congrats on killing the first 3 bosses in 10 man ulduar. If I were in your shoes though, I'd probably at least consider the specs proposed by the priests that have done the current content before calling them noobs.

    Here's my spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuZfxtcbMqihMcuAo

    I haven't quite killed yogg yet however. It's similar to firstaidspec's spec, but I don't like lightwell, haven't quite seen the effectiveness of spell warding yet, and am still torn between serendipity and blessed resilience. I find serendipity to be most effective in fights with sustained heavy raid damage, but I still need to try ulduar without it.

    Oh, and does anyone know specifically how well our fully talented renew stacks up against rejuvenation? My renew usually ticks for around 2kish raid buffed I think, which seems to be at least equal to our druids rejuvs. Unbuffed, my druid friends were telling me that my renew actually ticked harder than their rejuvs, is this true from what you guys know? I haven't played a resto druid since 70...
    Yeah, a lot of the variation just comes from personal and raid preference. I yell at people to use lightwell like a healthstone when they're running low, so I think they'd rather take the second to click it these days than listen to me bitch about it...

    Same goes with Spell Warding vs Divine Fury. Based on what hardmode we're doing that particular night I might end up swapping full points from one to another. There are a few fights already that come to mind where healers can definitely afford to squeeze in some DPS time, and holy DPS is garbage w/o DF. As I've said before Serendipity is really the thing I miss most. I'm sure there will come a time when Body & Soul stops being so much fun that I see myself swapping its points to Serendipity.

    And yes, my Renews are ticking for 2k+ on a regular basis, right up there with our Druids' HoTs.

  12. #32

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    I have no idea why armory is messing up so badly but i have 324 mana while casting before Majestic dragon figurine is at top, thanks =)

  13. #33

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    I went all int... Raidbuffed +23k Mana. Blue is Spirit + Int. U can check out Vaxall on Onyxia EU if u like
    I have no manaprobs at all, even on fights like Mimiron, ok after Phase 2 im oom but i ll reg to 100% in Phase 3 so who cares :P
    I made 300 Manapots for Ulduar... used like hmm.. 4? lawl Im not saying u cant get oom with good gear, my Priest KV need Iner.. (the druid thing) almost everyfight and we are mostly the same in WWS Stats, he speeced Spirit SP, so he has more SP but ich have more Manaregen, due to Rep. etc. i also got *alot* crit, like 32% raidbuffed which gives me a long 100% manaregen uptime.
    I mean ur Gear isnt that good so maybe its not ur fault to go oom, i had no manaissues with that gear befor 3.1 but now i can imagen.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  14. #34

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Frankly i have to say I'm pretty disgusted at the amount of epeen waving in this thread - and the lack of actual thought into the problem.

    The OP seems to be in 10 man Naxx gear - and has no heroic Naxx acheivments let alone Ulduar ones. Pratting on about how to improve your spec by a miniscule amount to maximise healing output does not seem to be the problem here.

    So the OP's gear and spec while not absolutely maxxed out are certainly adequate for the content. That means one of two things:
    1) you are casting too many heals. have you got recount? get it and learn to use it properly - no you are not looking for healing throughput - you want to get the graph of who you healed and how much overheal. And then look at the other healer(s) and see if you are hitting thier target too much. If you both have very high percentage of healing the MT and the other guy is MT healer that is where your mana is dissapearing. Trust the other guys to do their job - stop healing the people you don't need to.
    2) the other possibility is that your people are standing in the fire... Check the overall damage taken. if your rogues and DK's are too high you have to talk to them about it. Sometimes you have to let them die a few times to make the point. That is harsh - but sometimes it is what is needed.

    You can spend a lot of stuffing round getting a really great spec - and if you were deep into ulduar this would be a probable answer. But I have to say my Druid alt with similar gear seems to have a pretty easy time of doing the first couple of bosses in 10 man ulduar - as well as all of H Naxx. My pretty well geared priest has even fewer mana problems - but then I don't spend my time chain casting PoH either. And I didn't bother with updating my 3.0 spec - so it is similar to the OP's. And yes I'm sure it could be better - and maybe in a week or three when we start getting more progressed I might change it - but I don't actually need to right now.

    Try to do less - but do it better.

  15. #35

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    mutantboy, while yes I do have to agree with alot of what you have to say, the first step is making yourself the best you can be, then working everything else in after that. The Spec is the primary thing, it's like being shadow without Vampiric Touch or Misery. Sure, you can dps, but if you're not bringing the best of what you can to the table, then what's the freaking point? If a person like this in my guild refused to respec, I as a healing officer (without the privelege to gkick) would rather PuG than bring him (and have done so in the past to people like this).

    You can say "Oh well he has the skill to compensate". But if he had the skill to compensate and the build to do it, then how awesome of a healer would he be? I could drop one of my terrible Resto shamans? But that's not the case.

    Spec first, rotation/skill second (to learn the spec and it's intricacies), gear third.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  16. #36

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    mutantboy, while yes I do have to agree with alot of what you have to say, the first step is making yourself the best you can be, then working everything else in after that. The Spec is the primary thing, it's like being shadow without Vampiric Touch or Misery. Sure, you can dps, but if you're not bringing the best of what you can to the table, then what's the freaking point? If a person like this in my guild refused to respec, I as a healing officer (without the privelege to gkick) would rather PuG than bring him (and have done so in the past to people like this).

    You can say "Oh well he has the skill to compensate". But if he had the skill to compensate and the build to do it, then how awesome of a healer would he be? I could drop one of my terrible Resto shamans? But that's not the case.

    Spec first, rotation/skill second (to learn the spec and it's intricacies), gear third.
    This.

    Not all specs play exactly the same to be efficient. The builds pewpew and I are using utilize renew on targets over half or so health to top them off instead of flash heal. Little things like that can go a long way towards being efficient on any content, but you first have to be specced right.

    Specific advice to the OP: I would take one of the specs mentioned in this thread, although your spec really shouldn't be that inefficient, just might lack some throughput. Change your meta to insightful earthsiege or w/e, and gem/gear more towards intellect. Think about what spells are best in what situations. For example, if you take a renew spec'd build, then renew is probably the best way to top someone off who isn't in immediate danger of dying. Keep using two regen trinkets until you can sustain your mana.

  17. #37

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    mutantboy, while yes I do have to agree with alot of what you have to say, the first step is making yourself the best you can be, then working everything else in after that. The Spec is the primary thing, it's like being shadow without Vampiric Touch or Misery. Sure, you can dps, but if you're not bringing the best of what you can to the table, then what's the freaking point? If a person like this in my guild refused to respec, I as a healing officer (without the privelege to gkick) would rather PuG than bring him (and have done so in the past to people like this).

    You can say "Oh well he has the skill to compensate". But if he had the skill to compensate and the build to do it, then how awesome of a healer would he be? I could drop one of my terrible Resto shamans? But that's not the case.

    Spec first, rotation/skill second (to learn the spec and it's intricacies), gear third.
    I'm not buying it. I run with a group of guys so casual they don't know sites like this exist. a while ago I checked some healers in guild and we had TWO priests running holy/disc with spirit and no CoH. A druid with a freakin dreamstate build or whatever nonsense that is called. I talked to our healing officer and she was like oh it's OK - we get through...
    And she was right. We killed KT for 3 or 4 weeks before anyone started to think about how to do it better. So first week after dual specs I had 2 holy builds with some stuff changed around. I was going to use one and change and see if it was better. So then I used my bad build and didn't run out of mana and just spammed CoH/PoM/flash/renew whatever I thought I needed and hey guess what: people didn't die and I didn't run out of mana.

    If the DPS don't stand in the fire and the tank isn't squishy and you aren't doing cutting edge content then the healers should be fine.

    Unless they heal too much and run out of mana. My belief is that you can get away with bad healers if they have good spec and gear, and you can get away with good healers with bad specs and gear.
    Unless you start trying hard modes. Which is where you guys come in.

  18. #38

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    I have to agree once again with almost everything Pewpew is saying and anyone else backing him up. Holy people need to get with the times and realize GHeal ain't all that anymore. If you want to single target heal go disc or leave it to pallies. Empowered Renew while unlocking a new spell to crit, also makes a killer hot, helps boost Holy Concentration up time to ~40%, almost double what it is without it. So yes, cast renew whenever you're not healing the raid with PoH and CoH.

    Since GHeal is not all that anymore, Empowered Healing and Improved Healing get dropped for Healing Prayers, Holy Reach (lots of spread out people taking damage in Ulduar) and Test of Faith + Blessed Resilience. The math proves ToF+BR is > Empowered Healing IF you don't cast GHeal often and given Holys strength (raid healing) you shouldn't be. Fire and forget Renew (with chance to proc SoL and Holy Concentration) along with shields if you're down with the Body and Soul for Ulduar ability get aways (situational of course), then start PoH'in and CoH'in your heart out. Personally I use Pewpew's spec but I opted to keep Serendipity to the cost of Lightwell and Healing Focus which is not really the biggest deals in this spec anyway. I like my SoL's to make stuff faster for free.

    In other words...listen to the man. Any math I talked about can be backed up on EJ 3.1 Priest Healing Compendium thread. There ARE some sections in that thread vouching for the GHeal oriented style of Holy over the Renew/Body of Soul oriented but lots are leaning to drop GHeal since it's not really our job anymore.

    EDIT*** Just so you guys know, wow armory is bugged atm and talents are not being calculated into the stats being displayed, it's even being proposed that gems/enchants are not being taken into account either, and possibly certain pieces of gear. So take the stats you see in the armory as of late with a grain of salt until they say they have fixed it. It WAS working fine about 3 weeks ago though.

    EX - <PIE CHART> US TOP 10 Check 'em out http://piechart-guild.com/

  19. #39

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Healer mana problems occur when dps is tooo low.
    dps can bring your fight from 10 minutes to 6 minutes. big difference.

    MilkaMaus posted before saying he has no mana problems "even in fights such as Mimiron" = dps is high, everything lasts les, all dies fast. win.

    So : get best dps, best aggro/avoidance tank you have and go for a spin in ulduar/wherever raid. you won`t have mana problems anymore as long as everything dies fast.

    If your tank struggles to get aggro, dps has to hold back in dps/overgarro from critts = chaos for healers, and fights take excruciatingly much with extra pressure on healers who have to sustain heavy-weight slacking and failure from tanks/dps.

    Btw i never played a healer, i`m the gm/raid leader of a fine guild , my main is a dps (mage) and my alt is a tank DK.speaking out of pure experience .full WOTLK and mostly in 10 man ulduar

    Link to my main : http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n=Labadejaguar
    Link to my tonks dk : http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...&n=Obliterator

    Good day

  20. #40

    Re: Holy mana problems :(

    Quote Originally Posted by godstp
    Healer mana problems occur when dps is tooo low.
    dps can bring your fight from 10 minutes to 6 minutes. big difference.
    Man, I miss the long fights. The 8 minutes of hell that was Illidari Council where no healer had the shadow priest because all the mages/warlocks "needed" him. You could say it was necessary in Illidan but too many phase changes blah blah blah.

    Seriously, long fights were what tested a healer. Even as a priest one could pull through those (and most of the time without even using a potion).

    MilkaMaus posted before saying he has no mana problems "even in fights such as Mimiron" = dps is high, everything lasts les, all dies fast. win.

    So : get best dps, best aggro/avoidance tank you have and go for a spin in ulduar/wherever raid. you won`t have mana problems anymore as long as everything dies fast.
    Welcome to Naxxramas, here's Patchwerk. Oh wait.

    If your tank struggles to get aggro, dps has to hold back in dps/overgarro from critts = chaos for healers, and fights take excruciatingly much with extra pressure on healers who have to sustain heavy-weight slacking and failure from tanks/dps.
    Btw i never played a healer, i`m the gm/raid leader of a fine guild
    It shows.
    /endsarcasm

    my main is a dps (mage) and my alt is a tank DK.speaking out of pure experience .full WOTLK and mostly in 10 man ulduar
    Pure experience on a mage does not equal pure experience as a healer.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~


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