1. #1

    Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    We have received many questions about how the proc works on Val’anyr, the Hammer of the Ancient Kings. While we originally intended for this effect to be a mystery, we realize that guilds now know what the tooltip on the proc says without necessarily knowing the details on how it works. This leads to situations where a healer may not know if assembling the hammer is worth it for them (hint: it is), and perhaps even worse, a misinformed leader may not think you deserve the hammer (hint: you do).

    Players also wonder if the proc makes the item deserving of its legendary status given that the stat allocation is normal for items of its item level (Hint: it does).

    The effect reads “Your healing spells have a chance to cause Blessing of Ancient Kings for 15 seconds allowing your heals to shield the target absorbing damage equal to 15% of the amount healed.”
    The way this works is that when the proc happens (which is a 10% chance whenever a hot or direct spell heals, with a 45 sec internal cooldown) you gain a buff (the Blessing) on yourself. Now all of your heals for the next 15 sec cause an 8 sec damage shield. The shield stacks with itself. It includes healing done by subsequent ticks of existing hots on the target. Note that the spell has to actually heal, so hots ticking on a fully-healed target cannot cause the proc. However the shield is based on the size of the heal itself, not the amount healed – i.e. 100% overhealing will not proc the Blessing on the healer, but the shield itself includes overhealing once the Blessing is active. The shield can grow to a maximum size of 20,000 damage absorbed.

    Example 1: A paladin casts Holy Light for 10K on the tank, which partially heals her. The Blessing procs, so the paladin’s Holy Light immediately causes a shield on the tank which will now absorb 1500 damage. The tank dodges the next two hits, so no damage is absorbed. The paladin then casts another heal for 8K, but only heals the tank for 600 before she is at full health. The shield is now at 2700 damage absorbed (1500 + 1200) for 8 sec.

    Example 2: A druid casts Rejuv on the tank, healing her. The Blessing procs on the druid on the second tick. A shield is applied to the tank which absorbs 15% of the amount healed by that tick and each remaining tick of the Rejuv. If the druid also gets Lifebloom and Regrowth on the tank while the Blessing is up, then those ticks also contribute to the shield. If the shield goes down because the 8 sec duration expires or it absorbs that much damage, it can go up again as long as the Blessing lasts, which is 15 sec.
    10% chance to proc with a 45sec ICD makes the Val'anyr proc the really, really poor man's DA. I am extremely disappointed with the ICD, as it makes its effectiveness completely based on RNG. I would much prefer a passive bonus over something which I have no control.

    Without further tweaking, this finds its usefulness best in the hands of the following:

    (1) Paladin. Largest single target HPS. Tanks will always be taking damage, therefore, having an uncontrollable shield popping up every 1min(average) would be useful.

    (2) Holy Priest. Largest burst AoE HPS/2nd best single target HPS. On a fight with heavy AoE damage, a holy priest can use this proc to throw up big shields on everyone in the raid.
    This, however, is situational as the shield last for only 8sec, and the proc would have to time perfectly with the incoming AoE. They could also switch to healing the tank for 15sec to put up as big of a shield as they can, since they can guarantee the shield being used.

    (3) Resto Shaman. Resto shaman are in a similar situation that the holy priest is in. The reason why the proc is slightly less effective for them is that they cannot put out the same burst numbers that a holy priest can on AoE.

    (4) Disco Priest. 30%(approx) of a good disco priest's healing will be in absorbs, which will not count towards the Val'anyr proc. If a equally geared/skilled paladin and disco priest go head to head using this proc, the paladin will be 30% more effective as 100% of their throughput is "healing."

    (5) Resto Druid. Yes, it can proc on a HoT tick... and all HoT ticks contribute to the shield. However, when a target is at 100% health, HoTs do not register as an overheal, therefore, not contributing to the shield. Its an RNG game again for druids: Will it proc when I have a large number of HoTs rolling on targets that are down on health?

    The possibility for this proc being amazing is certainly there. Consider a Resto Druid rolling HoTs on everyone in the raid before Tantrum or Frozen Blows, and getting the proc right before it happens? Amazing.

    The thing is... a shield is good for when you know damage will be incoming. Otherwise, its a pretty bubble for 8sec. If you cannot control when that shield goes up, how can it be consistently useful for known incoming damage?

    That being said, do everyone a favor and get this mace in the hands of your tank healers 1st... whether they be a paladin, priest, shaman, or druid. It will bring the greatest benefit to the raid.

  2. #2

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex

    (5) Resto Druid. Yes, it can proc on a HoT tick... and all HoT ticks contribute to the shield. However, when a target is at 100% health, HoTs do not register as a heal, therefore, not contributing to the shield. Its an RNG game again for druids: Will it proc when I have a large number of HoTs rolling on targets that are down on health?
    Yes its tobad resto druids dont have direct heals
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)

    I'm honestly frightened by what is taking place on the BlizzCon forum.*

  3. #3

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gzilia
    Yes its tobad resto druids dont have direct heals
    Did you not read the blue post, the second example is from a druid....

  4. #4

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Yes, druids do have direct heals, but looking at a breakdown of how druids heal, a good chunk of their healing comes from HoT ticks, which puts them at the mercy of RNG if folks will be down on health when the proc occurs.

    This is similar to the disco priest argument.

  5. #5

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Separate
    Did you not read the blue post, the second example is from a druid....
    Think you need to read the OP's post, and grasp my sarcasme.
    Originally Posted by Zarhym (Blue Tracker)

    I'm honestly frightened by what is taking place on the BlizzCon forum.*

  6. #6

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Separate
    Did you not read the blue post, the second example is from a druid....
    [...]but the shield itself includes overhealing once the Blessing is active.
    HoTs do NOT overheal; check your combat logs. The example given assumed that the ticks went off while the target was down on health.

  7. #7

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    ...a healer may not know if assembling the hammer is worth it for them (hint: it is, unless you're a Disc Priest), and perhaps even worse, a misinformed leader may not think you deserve the hammer (hint: you do, unless you're a Disc Priest).
    ...
    Players also wonder if the proc makes the item deserving of its legendary status given that the stat allocation is normal for items of its item level (Hint: it does, unless you're a Disc Priest).
    Fixt.

    I'm going to go weep now.
    Bigslick (1/7 Mythic) Lethal-Thunderhorn US
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  8. #8

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gzilia
    Think you need to read the OP's post, and grasp my sarcasme.
    What is that?

  9. #9

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    I'm of the opinion that it should go to holy paladins first. It's hard to guarantee raid damage, tank damage is always there ready to make use of the shields.

  10. #10

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    2) It should work as you would expect with PW:Shield and similar effects. Specifically, the damage should work through one shield and then the other. I don't know off the top of my head which one is used first. Sometimes we have edge cases with multiple absorbs like this that we will need to solve as they arise. (To be clear, PW:Shield will not proc the blessing or the bubble though, because it does not heal.)



    Will be interesting to find out if Ghostcrawler is aware of the power word: shield healing glyph, cos surely the heal from that will proc it.....

  11. #11

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Pretty sure the hot ticks that don't actually heal (because they would have been overheal) will add to the shield. It's equally amazing for all healers, be it raid or MT healers, some will take more of it healing raid, others the MT.

  12. #12

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    There no point doing this, you're just trying to make a reason to whine...

    THIS ITEM...IS THE BEST HEALING WEAPON IN THE GAME....

    it is BIS for everyone..... it will go to the best healer (that is, skilled, active etc etc)

    stop whining about something you probably aren't even going to get.

  13. #13

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    The HoT ticks will add to the shield, even when target is at full hp. What these HoT ticks won't do is proccing Blessing of Ancient King

    The confusing part here is that hots that don't heal won't cause the blessing (we didn't want you fishing for the bubble before a pull by constantly healing the tank, though I suppose you could if your tank was injured). But once the blessing is active, then all of your healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing.
    Anyway, the idea it should go to *class A* first solely because *class A* can make better use of the proc in *situation B* is stupid. It won't make or break a fight, and the proc will be the last thing to be considered (if it's even considered) when giving a healer the mace.

  14. #14

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by clampy
    There no point doing this, you're just trying to make a reason to whine...

    THIS ITEM...IS THE BEST HEALING WEAPON IN THE GAME....

    it is BIS for everyone..... it will go to the best healer (that is, skilled, active etc etc)

    stop whining about something you probably aren't even going to get.
    There is no question that this mace has a large capacity to be beneficial to any healer. However, guilds that are running Ulduar25, and are skilled enough to down Yogg, will have to choose who receives this mace first. Not just because of the proc, but because of the length of time it takes to complete its creation.

    My comments are open for discussion, as I am only one person with an opinion. It is my opinion that the first healer to receive this weapon should be a tank healer due to how this proc effect works. Of the possible classes that can be strong tank healers, Paladins have a slight edge in their capacity to make this proc work to its fullest.

    I also contend that this weapon is not equally amazing for all healers. Those who believe that all classes will gain equal benefit are not looking deep enough into how this proc works.

    That being said, it should invariably go first to the healer that has a strong raid attendance and a strong mastery of their craft.


  15. #15

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qualia
    The HoT ticks will add to the shield, even when target is at full hp. What these HoT ticks won't do is proccing Blessing of Ancient King

    Anyway, the idea it should go to *class A* first solely because *class A* can make better use of the proc in *situation B* is stupid. It won't make or break a fight, and the proc will be the last thing to be considered (if it's even considered) when giving a healer the mace.
    This point is still a little fuzy. Yes, all healing spells will contribute to the bubble even if they do no actual healing. However, unless HoTs have a hidden coding, the combat log does not calculate HoT ticks when a target is at 100%.

    I am certainly pulling for HoTs that tick at 100% to count towards the shield. However, up to this point, I cannot see how this is possible... again, unless there is hidden coding that calculates this.

  16. #16

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    i think i should get it first. any thoughts?

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Mr.X's Avatar
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    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    hmm this shield would be lovely duing plasma blast on mimiron :P

    anyway yes tank healers will benefitfrom this most, but its gr8 for all healers ofc, I still say give it to healers always at the top of healing meters or dedicaed etc.

    Howev I HATE the fact it has no regen stat that is SUPER lamo blizz!!!
    howev I'd love to see this weapon in 2v2 teams :P

  18. #18

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    Most guilds are going to try and figure out who their most skilled, most reliable, longest-standing healing raiders are, and give it to them. This is just how it is with legendary weapons. Warglaives, the bow, atiesh, - most guilds thought less about "which of these 3 people in guild who can legitimately claim the weapon as useful, would benefit most" and more about "which of these 3 people are most dedicated to the guild"

    So, who cares really if its a little better for a holy paladin than it is for a disc priest or resto druid or whatever - if your best, most reliable healer is a disc priest, the answer is an obvious one.

  19. #19

    Re: Val'anyr, a priest perspective after explanation.

    The problem becomes when you have three reliable awesome healers. The three of us, two priests, one holy, one disc and a pally. That it should go to the pally prior to the stats being released. Seems like we guessed right, and I'm probably passing it to the holy priest because he will benefit more than me. Hopefully we get another healer who is competent and consistent who we can give the next one to, assuming it gets to that.

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