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  1. #1

    Question about Ulduar build.

    Thinking of making a new Ulduar build, since alot of the encounters involve alot of ppl getting dmg by magic.

    What i thought of being a pvp talent now seems viable to me.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...otcE0cc:zAbz0c

    This is the build i'm considering.
    A few questions tho:
    • In the holy tree i skipped Divine Fury, since i wont be using GH this seems like a total waste.
    • To get Improved Healing i had to toss some points in here. Was undecided on renew or Healing focus. Now the latter seems only to be in effect if your not paying attention and getting knock backed by a AOE effect.
    • The Spell Warding i took cuz of the amount of aoe magic we get. And time not healing myself is healing the raid.

    • In the Disc tree i skipped the usual stuff but decided to skip Absolution this time too, since mana isnt an issue when we do bosses.
    • Still undecided on Focused Will, since this realy looks like a PVP talent (since mobs wont crit you with spells, melee will kill me anyway ). Imo looks like a waste of 3 points for 3% crit.
    • I also skipped Grace, the reason for that being that i cant see the point of having to spam healing just to get 9% extra healing. And since its single target i dont see the point since i'm already doing dmg prevention, shielding (which gives a nice bonus already)

    Any thoughts on this? And plx. keep it friendly ;D

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Some thoughts:

    - 15% less manacost on penance (which is already dirtcheap) and divine hymn (which is a 10 min cd) is rather pointless.
    - Desperate Prayer is often a lifesaver.
    - Grace is awesome in pve as a tankhealer. +9% healing for 2 talent points is gooood. And "having to spam healing" - excuse me? 1 Penance = 3 stacks grace.
    - Focused will is also very good. Saying 3% crit for 3 talent points sucks, is saying that 5% crit for 5 talent points sucks. And everybody takes 5% crit in pve.


    IMHO the standard 57/14 build > this one by far.
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  3. #3

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    The spell warding seems like kind of a waste. Whether a fireball hits you for 9k or 8.1k, you're still going to need to heal yourself. Grace and Focused Will are both much better uses of your points--if you have 9% more healing or crit on a heal, then that's less time you spend healing, too.

    As for the Improved Healing, poster above me got it correct--you're going deeper than you have to into the holy tree to benefit one spell that's already fairly efficient.

    It's nice to see that you're thinking of ways to help out the raid, but the standard build is just considerably better.
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  4. #4
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Spell warding instead of divine fury is perfectly viable as disc. You don't use greater heal as disc. ever.
    And 10% less magic damage on yourself can be the difference between a dead healer and a healer who still heals.
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  5. #5

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    I will have to agree with the posters above me. What you are basically doing is Taking points from Focused Will and Grace and placing them into Renew and Improved Healing.

    So basically you have 3 wasted points in renew, so you can get 3 mediocre points in improved healing

    - You use Inner Focus with Divine Hymn, so the bonus for DH is useless
    - Disc already has awesome mana regen, no need to save off of Penance.

    So just go with the standard build which is far superior.

  6. #6

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    - 15% less manacost on penance (which is already dirtcheap) and divine hymn (which is a 10 min cd) is rather pointless.
    Agreed, somehow i read more into that then it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    - Desperate Prayer is often a lifesaver.
    Not realy, i have not been in a situation where i needed that when it wasnt already a wipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    - Grace is awesome in pve as a tankhealer. +9% healing for 2 talent points is gooood. And "having to spam healing" - excuse me? 1 Penance = 3 stacks grace.
    Like i said, thoughts plx. seems reasonable and i will take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    - Focused will is also very good. Saying 3% crit for 3 talent points sucks, is saying that 5% crit for 5 talent points sucks. And everybody takes 5% crit in pve.
    Felt more like a pvp thingy (the rest), but yeah... already wasted 5 for 5%  ;D

    That leaves me with 1 point. And i dont like putting it in Desperate Prayer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trollpatrol
    The spell warding seems like kind of a waste. Whether a fireball hits you for 9k or 8.1k, you're still going to need to heal yourself.
    Talking about AoE spells, like Hodir and many other bosses. Small but deadly ticks.

  7. #7

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Not much point going anything but the standard 57/14/0 build IMO. Mana isn't really an issue, so 15% of penance really won't help you much. Spell warding isn't a big deal, especially with binding heal.

  8. #8

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Grace is pure awesomeness. Holy priests need 5 points for 10% healing, and you get 9% (on your target ofc) with just 2.

  9. #9

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Nice to see ppl still read all posts before hitting reply ;D :

    Anyway

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...fRt0E0c:zAbz0c

    Want to try this tonight at 25 man Mimiron.
    Just if the dmg reduction does help. if not then i'll switch back.

    Still pondering on the 1 point tho...

  10. #10
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    I would worry more about getting Healing Focus for Mimiron, than Spell Warding.

  11. #11

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nezoia
    I would worry more about getting Healing Focus for Mimiron, than Spell Warding.
    That bad? we are doing bosses with a clean sheet, so kinda avoiding tacts and having fun figuring the fight out. And this one will be new for me ;D

  12. #12

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    There will be more than one encounter there where you'll wish you didn't get interrupted while healing. Take Healing Focus in your build. Others already commented enough and I agree with them.

  13. #13

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    There will be more than one encounter there where you'll wish you didn't get interrupted while healing. Take Healing Focus in your build. Others already commented enough and I agree with them.
    ? Healing focus doesnt prevent interupting. It reduces the knockback effect.
    So you wont have to run that far back.
    Think healing focus wasnt about interupting casting since 3.0.

  14. #14

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    BTW...Glyphs....WTF???

  15. #15

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dujith
    ? Healing focus doesnt prevent interupting. It reduces the knockback effect.
    So you wont have to run that far back.
    Think healing focus wasnt about interupting casting since 3.0.
    Actually, it reduces spellpushback: When you get hit, the amount of lost cast time is reduced by 35/70%.

    What it used to be was reducing the chance to even see pushback at all. The only thing I can really see it being necessary for is Divine Hymn or Penance. I mean, Serendipity pretty much makes your heal-bombs (as Holy) fast enough on their own, but losing a tick or two of Penance/Hymn can be a little ugly.
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  16. #16
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dujith
    ? Healing focus doesnt prevent interupting. It reduces the knockback effect.
    So you wont have to run that far back.
    Think healing focus wasnt about interupting casting since 3.0.
    As Kelesti said, healing focus has absolutely nothing to do with knockback effects, and everything with spellpushback effects. Spellpushback = when your casttime gets longer because you take damage, or in the case of channeled spells like penance, you lose a tick. Though not that big of an issue with the changed of 3.0, 70% less pushback still helps in aoe heavy fights.
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  17. #17

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soxes
    BTW...Glyphs....WTF???
    Nice addition to the thread  ;D
    You could be a tad more specific.

    Which one else?
    These seem to do the job good, specialy the shield and dispell one.. and i dispell alot

    As for the pushback, i will try that out too. Never realy understood the tooltip that clearly.

  18. #18

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dujith
    Nice addition to the thread ;D
    You could be a tad more specific.

    Which one else?
    These seem to do the job good, specialy the shield and dispell one.. and i dispell alot

    As for the pushback, i will try that out too. Never realy understood the tooltip that clearly.
    Dispel is kinda meh. 3% of 35k is 1050 health. Sure, it's "free" health, but it's still not worth it, for the most part. Shield is great, Penance is a must, but I'd stick with Flash Heal until we get something that's actually better than it.
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  19. #19

    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    After reading the above, combining my experience of Uld so far and looking at the disc tree in a slightly different way, I came up with the following:

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...fRtfVzc:mAbzVM

    At first you might want to scream at me that I'm a noob for 0/5 Holy Specialisation but listen to my reasoning.

    I don't think you need to invest 3 points into improved healing because the only spell you are going to cast regularly enough for it to matter is penance and it's already a very low mana cost. I don't see a lot of benefit out of it, so I removed those 3 points instantly (from the first linked spec in this thread). I then put 2 of those points into healing focus because there is tons and tons of spell pushback in Uld, you'd be crazy not to take it.

    With the one point left over I chose to throw it into Grace, because it does yeild some very nice throughput for a very cheap cost. It's so cheap I started looking around for where I could find another point and in the end I decided that 1% crit is unlikely to have the same healing throughput as another point in grace, so I stole it from holy specialisation. So at the moment my build is 1% crit less then the orginal build.

    Then I had a look at focused will and realised I could gain another 3% crit, but if we want to keep 5/5 Spell Warding there simply isn't enough points to go around and personally I think to begin with (progression type raiding) 5/5 Spell Warding is a good idea. Then I noticed that Focused will gives me the exact same effect as 3 points of Holy Specialisation except it has an added ability. Granted that added ability has next to 0 effect in PvE but i'm no worse off taking 3 points from Holy Specialisation and puting them into Focused Will (and gaining some world pvp protection in the process)... so that's what I did. Also you should note that the spell crit from Focused will is for all spells (not just holy like holy specialisation), that may not have any effect in PvE but it's still a gain (unless Penance is considered a disc spell in which case you just gained 3% crit to Penance).

    Lastly I decided that 1% crit from Holy Specialisation was perhaps better utilised as Desperate Prayer, particularly since we are taking spell warding and thus we can conclude we are trying to increase our survivability. For the cost of 1% crit having that instant self heal is a good investment. So in the end my build is only 2% less crit than the original linked spec but it has the added throughput of Grace and survivability of Desperate Prayer.

    I also would change the dispel glyph to Flash Heal, this will more than make up for the hit you took in losing Imp Healing and while the bonus for dispeling is nice it's not something that is that noticable. I also prefer my minor glyphs of Fort (to throw on battle rezzed raid members) and Shadowfiend (layer of protection when you really need mana) but that doesn't really matter if you dont want to change what you have. (Btw, 20min duration of Prayer of Shadow will easily last until you clear or wipe an encounter, so why do u need a 30min duration?).

    Lastly if you were confident of never dying (perhaps later on when you have Uld closer to farm status) i'd remove the 5 points in Spell Warding and put them all into Holy Specialisation.

    Edit: I'm a noob, I didnt noticed that imp Renew was taken in that orginal spec, that is a no no as you would rarely bother casting it... therefore I now switch those 3 points into Holy Specalisation.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbu...fRtbAzc:mAbzVM

    You then choose where you want to sacrafice 4% spell warding for 2% crit... and that becomes a very subjective discussion based on your own experiences.

    Last thing I want to say... take desperate prayer... telling us that desperate prayer doesnt save lives or is useless is worse than telling us healthstones are of no use... you take it and you learn to start using it, there is nothing else in the tree that comes remotely close for that last point.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Ulduar build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    I'd stick with Flash Heal until we get something that's actually better than it.
    Flashheal glyph is a must for pve, both for holy and disc.
    Penance of course is a must.

    That leaves 1 glyph slot which could be PW:Shield (yay), Dispell (nay), Mass Dispell (oh hell no), Renew (nay), Holy Nova (maaaaaybe in 10man, but even then shield is better glyphed) or Prayer of Healing (better left to holies IMHO).

    The Shield glyph heals for about the same if not more as the dispell glyph on tanks, and is always usable (barring weakend soul) so I'd go with shield all the time as the third glyph.
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