Idea for Ret combat change

[Kuthumii]

I wanted to be as orginal as possible though I am sure I pulled ideas that might not be 100% orginal.

The system I brainstormed would have Rets watching one of three new debuffs applied to the target by their special attacks and buff that their special attacks grant them. The buff allows the player to see the three debuffs. Here are the added buffs and debuffs:

Foresight: Allows the player to see the debuffs Divine Opening, Corruption, and Unholy Ground. Lasts 3 seconds. Refreshed by any of your special attacks.

Divine Opening: The crit chance of Crusader Strike and Divine Storm is increased by X% when used while this debuff is up.

Corruption: The damage of your Judgment spells and Exorcism are increased by X% when used while this debuff is up.

Unholy Ground: The duration and CD of your Consecration ability are reduced by 50%. The damaged is doubled. (8s Cons to 4 sec but still deals the same amount of damage.)

Your first special attack will put Foresight up on the yourself and one of the other three debuffs on your target. When you use a special attack the debuff changes. Since there are two specials that affect DO and Cor they both have a 40% chance to appear and since UG only has one spell it has a 20% chance.

I am not a numbercruncher. % modifers, damage out put, cooldowns, any number of things would need to be tweaked.

The system as simple as I can put it: No names or descriptions.

Your special abilities (CS, DS, Exo, Judg, and Concs) apply a buff to yourself that allow you to see one of three debuffs that rotate on the target as long as you use a special ability every three seconds. Each of these three debuffs buff one or more of you special attacks in some way. Spamming your abilities would mean wasted use of the debuffs and thus wasted DPS. I am not sure you could make a stable rotation out of this though.

I just went for something that would be more involved and not have us spamming abilites as they come off CD.

Flames, thoughts, other ideas, criticism, trolls expected!

[kailtas]

how long does the debuff lasts and how are they applied?

[Prentice]

But why can't I play just like a mage and pew pew laser beams by pressing only 1 key and still do amazing DPS?? Using 5+ buttons is way too hard.

[SolaronTich]

Problems with this:

1) This system seems very clunky, the idea of "Foresight" really seems to serve no purpose that I can see.
2) The amount of RNG involved in this makes me cry. Imagine constantly getting Unholy Ground on a mobile fight like Hodir or Grobbulus. You wouldn't get a particularly good increase in dps.
3) Why would you name a PALADIN ability "UNHOLY something". That pretty much goes against everything paladin. If I wanted to be an evil paladin I would have rolled a DK.

[Kuthumii]

how long does the debuff lasts and how are they applied?

The debuff lasts as long as Foresight is up; it changes when a special is used and Foresight is refreshed, thus keeping the debuff up. If you don't use a special ability within that window you lose both. Which can be re applied via use of a special ability. The three debuffs are acutally one rolling debuff that changes to one of them as it rolls. It is applied by any of your special abilities (CS, DS, Cons, Exo, Judg).

Problems with this:

1) This system seems very clunky, the idea of "Foresight" really seems to serve no purpose that I can see.
2) The amount of RNG involved in this makes me cry. Imagine constantly getting Unholy Ground on a mobile fight like Hodir or Grobbulus. You wouldn't get a particularly good increase in dps.
3) Why would you name a PALADIN ability "UNHOLY something". That pretty much goes against everything paladin. If I wanted to be an evil paladin I would have rolled a DK.

1: You figure? Clunky? That would be because it is a rough idea. I didn't want to put any specifics as those would be fine tuned by Blizzard. The use of Foresight allows you to see the debuffs, if Foresight (at a 3s duration) fades, you can't see the debuffs and thus don't gain their benefit. This removes the need for actual durations on the debuffs themselves. It could be removed and the system still work, again, rough idea, Blizzard's job to fine tune. They didn't ask us for a perfect system.

2: You failed to read where I said it would need fine tuning. You failed to read most of the post. Gratz. In particular the Unholy Ground would make Cons better at mobile fights as the damage is dealt faster.

3: It isn't a Paladin ability. It is a debuff on the target. The target is making the ground unholy......you consecrate to cleanse it.

I am glad you can't read or actually understand the idea. Shows you are ignorant and/or don't care to read and just want to troll. The ability names I listed are place holders nothing more. Read the last part of the post.

We have one troll, how many more?

[Horn]

So pretty much, every time you use an offensive move, the target gains a debuff you can only benefit from every 3 seconds that enchances a specified ability? If this is indeed what your suggesting, the RNG would probably kill you. To balance something like this would be pretty painful because if the debuffs would have to be significant damage increases to justify using some abilities over others, and yet not enough to completely screw you if you didn't use the debuff in the 3 seconds in PvP or movement heavy fights. I would tweak it more :P

[SolaronTich]

I pointed out flaws in your desgin, thus I am a troll. Sorry I don't think your idea is the panacea for ret combat.

Also I dont seem to quite get a few things.

1) If the debuffs go away when foresight falls off, why wouldn't you just get rid of foresight altogether and give the debuffs a 3 second duration?

2) In my opinion this combat system requires far, far too much micromanagement and reaction time. Every single attack you make will be based on what happened on your last attack. You would have to focus every GCD. This would take the simplest rotation in the game and make it the most ridiculous and demanding.

3) How do you suppose this system will work with multiple targets? If I were to get "Unholy Ground" on a boss, then I switch to an add, I would no longer benefit from this. In order to get the most from this I would have to click the boss, cast Consecration, then click the add, which to me, seems clunky.

[Kuthumii]

So pretty much, every time you use an offensive move, the target gains a debuff you can only benefit from every 3 seconds that enchances a specified ability? If this is indeed what your suggesting, the RNG would probably kill you. To balance something like this would be pretty painful because if the debuffs would have to be significant damage increases to justify using some abilities over others, and yet not enough to completely screw you if you didn't use the debuff in the 3 seconds in PvP or movement heavy fights. I would tweak it more :P

Guess you failed to read also. I gave a rough idea. I do not work for Blizzard and I myself am not a numbercruncher. The tweaking is left to those that get paid. Blizzard asked for simple ideas, not for us to implement a system for them.

The debuffs can be used to buff abilities to help during high movement fights (ie Unholy Ground for Consecration, though naming and actual effect is left open for tweaking). As I already admitted RNG factors in the the specific version I gave, I am not sure why you felt it worth pointing out again. You don't only benefit from it every three seconds. If the debuff for CS comes up, you CS, the debuff changes, to say the Cons debuff, you use cons. That is two uses of the debuff in three seconds. The problem comes in after you used all your abilities and they are on CD.....hence I said Blizzard would need to tweak many things, which isn't out of the question for what they are wanting to do. Yes, RNG would be hell if they didn't tune it correctly.

I pointed out flaws in your desgin, thus I am a troll. Sorry I don't think your idea is the panacea for ret combat.

Also I dont seem to quite get a few things.

1) If the debuffs go away when foresight falls off, why wouldn't you just get rid of foresight altogether and give the debuffs a 3 second duration?

2) In my opinion this combat system requires far, far too much micromanagement and reaction time. Every single attack you make will be based on what happened on your last attack. You would have to focus every GCD. This would take the simplest rotation in the game and make it the most ridiculous and demanding.

3) How do you suppose this system will work with multiple targets? If I were to get "Unholy Ground" on a boss, then I switch to an add, I would no longer benefit from this. In order to get the most from this I would have to click the boss, cast Consecration, then click the add, which to me, seems clunky.

Flaws? You didn't even read half the post or didn't bother to try to understand it.

1: Try reading, its your friend, I already said that was an option. Really. Read. It helps you look less stupid.

2: That is your opinion, would it mean we have to micromanage to an extent? Yes. Is it ridiculous and demanding? I don't think so, though that is my opinion. Does it force people to pay attention to how they use their abilities instead of spamming them? Yes, and that is what Blizzard is aiming for.

3: You keep reading far to much into the example I gave. As I have said numerous times, (all of you which seem to have skipped over) this is a rough idea, not something that has been through around a room full of game developers for three months and been tested. You are asking for a completely built, tested, tried, and proven system. Blizzard is not. They want ideas. Understand that? Who is to say that you won't benefit from Unholy Ground because you aren't targeting the boss? Did I post that? Or did you add in how you thought it would work to create a flaw? Yes, that is exactly what you did.

Again, troll. Learn to read. Understand what is being presented. This isn't meant to be a fully designed and tested system. It is a rough idea, which is what Blizzard is asking for.

The idea for those too dense to understand:

Your specials grant you a buff that allows you to see debuffs on the targets which your specials also grant (or the debuffs can be there 100% of the time, hidden, but you can't see or benefit from them without this buff up). These debuffs are tied to specific abilities (one or more) and modify/improve them in someway. The debuffs change from one to another as you use special abilities. This prevents you from simple spamming abilities as they come off CD, forcing you to pay attention to the debuffs to get their added effects. Disregarding them at times wouldn't hurt to severely but completely disregarding them would.

Buff a: lets you see debuff a, b, c. Lasts 3 secs. Is refreshed when CS, DS, Jud, Exo, or Cons is used.
debuff a: improves CS and DS
debuff b: improves Jud and Exo
debuff c: improves Cons

I figured people would tear into any idea that had specific names and ability descriptions so I was hesitant to actually put them. Guess people for the most part fail to understand what Blizzard is asking for. Ideas.

[Vice]

Kuthumi, you're receiving some valid criticisms. your idea is a good one but the only way it can be made practical is through this semi-fine tuning which is being offered now. It doesnt have to be perfect but its gotta be able to hold water. So stop replying to every post with abject aggression. When you post an idea such as this you have to expect criticism... merely the fact that you have do defend your idea so vehemently means that theres something wrong with it

[Saintety]

Ok, we may not be the best dps class in PvE but im happy with how ret damage is now in PvE. what i don't like and what remains a problem is PvP. Now don't get me wrong, we can usually kill any class w/o much trouble unless they are healers or unless they are being healed by some1 else.

Blizzard tried to fix that by adding a secondary effect to CS but the change died before even its birth because people thought it was just a copy of Unrelenting Assault (for MS Warriors) and that it was not original. However, the problem remains; i cant kill a healer with the same gear as me.

Here is what i propose: a secondary effect to Judgments of light / wisdom and justice. It puts a debuff called "guilt". The target affected by guilt cannot beneficiate from any healing spell for the next 2 seconds following the judgment. The CD on judgments is 10 sec, 8 sec with talents and 7 sec with 4 set ret pvp bonus or 4 set ret t7 bonus, that leaves the healer 5 to 8 sec to heal depending on the spec and gear of the paladin who judged. It would be something new that no other class has, and now we wont have healer who just stand spam their heals regardless of what you do.

[wuzzle]

Not so long ago I had this Idea:


Crusader strike: Charges a Retribution Symbol(not dispellable) up to 2 times. Inflicts damage equal to 80% weapon damage + modifiers as holy damage.

Divine Storm: Lets you move 10% faster for every Retribution Symbol active for 2 sec. Inflicts damage equal to xx% weapon damage + modifiers as meleedamage for every Retribution Symbol active. Uses up one Retribution Symbol and converts it into a Holy Symbol, stacks up to 2 times.

Judgement: Restores mana equal to 25% of your base mana. Inflicts 100 damage and additional damage for every charged Retribution Symbol equal to modifiers. Consumes all your existing retribution Symbols.

Exorzism: Uses up all Holy and Retribution Symbol charges. Dazes the target for 1 sec. for each Holy Symbol consumed. Inflicts damage equal to 100 + modifiers for each consumed Holy Symbol + modifiers for each consumed Retribution Symbol charge. Also consumes a debuff on the target (any). damage is halfed if there isn't any debuff on the target.

Consecration: There is a 30% chance to charge a Holy (or Retriubution) Symbol per tick. (maybe a Glyph for that ... )

Bubble: Wipes all your current Symbol charges. 100% damage while in Bubble.

Art of War: (33%/66%/100%)Chance to gain a Holy Symbol. Your Sacred Shield spell gets a 1.5 sec cast time. If you have a Holy Symbol active your FoL and Sacred Shield spells are instant and they consume a holy symbol.

Seal of Command: If it proccs it also has a % chance to charge a Retribution Symbol. (maybe too rng but could provide a bit of burst for pvp)

*new* Retribution Shock: Consumes a Retribution Symbol. Interrupts the target for 3 seconds. 12 seconds cooldown.




--------------

Now, flame me!

[riflemancho]

Ok, we may not be the best dps class in PvE but im happy with how ret damage is now in PvE. what i don't like and what remains a problem is PvP. Now don't get me wrong, we can usually kill any class w/o much trouble unless they are healers or unless they are being healed by some1 else.

Blizzard tried to fix that by adding a secondary effect to CS but the change died before even its birth because people thought it was just a copy of Unrelenting Assault (for MS Warriors) and that it was not original. However, the problem remains; i cant kill a healer with the same gear as me.

Here is what i propose: a secondary effect to Judgments of light / wisdom and justice. It puts a debuff called "guilt". The target affected by guilt cannot beneficiate from any healing spell for the next 2 seconds following the judgment. The CD on judgments is 10 sec, 8 sec with talents and 7 sec with 4 set ret pvp bonus or 4 set ret t7 bonus, that leaves the healer 5 to 8 sec to heal depending on the spec and gear of the paladin who judged. It would be something new that no other class has, and now we wont have healer who just stand spam their heals regardless of what you do.

horror, horrible...worst idea i ever seen..with these symbols and all those shits lol..i prefer stop wow till blizz add pandaren playable =/

[Nemolol]

i like the OP flaming ppl for bashing on his terrible idea

[rosecrance]

Unholy Ground: The duration and CD of your Consecration ability are reduced by 50%. The damaged is doubled. (8s Cons to 4 sec but still deals the same amount of damage.)

Yeah, because warriors of the holy light should totally have an unholy ability. Lololololol.

[archform]

pallys shouldnt touch RNG anymore

also we arent locks were pallys so we dont do debuffs that much adn we really shouldnt unless the person is undead

unless we wanna try to change spells to do that and maybe more dmg by changing in our view the opponent into a undead? like we go into some holy craze and see them as a undead and you unleash your vengeance or something
well thats just my 5 seconds of thinking idea

[gibborim]

The only troll here is the OP.

[Rebornsoul]

I am glad you can't read or actually understand the idea. Shows you are ignorant and/or don't care to read and just want to troll. The ability names I listed are place holders nothing more. Read the last part of the post.

We have one troll, how many more?

Say what you want, none-the-less it's pretty rude to simply flip off on someone for not agreeing or understanding something. I might be trolling, i might not, but i don't agree with you simply going balls out on this guy because he disagreed with you.

That aside, the ideas are indeed clunky because of the rough idea stage, and don't work. If we want more DPS, we need something sustainable, something static and allowable for the upkeep of DPS. RNG just doesn't fit the bill. On a static fight, Unholy Ground debuff would be iffy, at best just because of the fact that it's going to really change up your rotations / priorities when it does come up.

Just my thoughts

[Horn]

The combat system Blizz wants to come up with will ideally make you think, be highly tweakable, low RNG base, low burst dependancy, and wouldn't completely fuck you if you miss a rotation. This doesn't look like the solution to me.

[archform]

The combat system Blizz wants to come up with will ideally make you think, be highly tweakable, low RNG base, low burst dependancy, and wouldn't completely fuck you if you miss a rotation. This doesn't look like the solution to me.

alright then lets ALL figure out a way to make that combat system

i say we need something that slowly builds up as a buff on ourself
since we need to be passive LIke the passive vuff we ahve for the increased holy and physical dmg

now what would something like that be without it being very OP
*remember they are trying to make a whole new system so you dont need to latch on to the current system and try to build it up