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  1. #21

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    btw as the MT of my guild i do not use conviction, though i can use, i know it is very good, but i use Seals of the Pure for more Corruption dmg and judgement dmg, dunno if in total it makes more dmg or agro than conviction procs.... here is my build and gear u can check http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...Sinners+Defeat

  2. #22
    Martini
    Guest

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arboria
    btw as the MT of my guild i do not use conviction, though i can use, i know it is very good, but i use Seals of the Pure for more Corruption dmg and judgement dmg, dunno if in total it makes more dmg or agro than conviction procs.... here is my build and gear u can check http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...Sinners+Defeat
    You'l produce more threat going down the Ret tree. Browse through the maintankadin forums and look for talent builds/threat

  3. #23

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...usher&n=Hatake

    This is my armory.  At this point I don't have threat problems at all over the long term of a fight so I decided to sink a bunch of points into Divinity.  My justification to the 2/2 Improved Judements is that extra second of time each judgement I get on my Libram of Obstruction which really adds up in any of the 6+ minute fights.  I don't currently 969 because I have not ever really needed to. I'm the MT for my guild and have tanked everything up to Yogg which we're still working on.

  4. #24
    Martini
    Guest

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by HatakeSC
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...usher&n=Hatake

    This is my armory. At this point I don't have threat problems at all over the long term of a fight so I decided to sink a bunch of points into Divinity. My justification to the 2/2 Improved Judements is that extra second of time each judgement I get on my Libram of Obstruction which really adds up in any of the 6+ minute fights. I don't currently 969 because I have not ever really needed to. I'm the MT for my guild and have tanked everything up to Yogg which we're still working on.
    Hrm, the only thing I'm genuinly wondering about is..You're an MT why pick up Divine guardian? There are other things I wouldn't do, but that's just me. DG seems l=more like a suicide mission...Especially for a MT

  5. #25

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Hah I'm definitely not using DG while I'm MTing the main mob if that's what you're thinking...

    It's the 20% increase to sacred shield effectiveness and 100% duration increase that I really enjoy.

    DG itself is situationally useful though for times when everyone is taking fairly uniform damage and I can shieldwall or bubble completely to absorb it (like it used to function).

  6. #26

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auton
    any prot pally build without Judgements of the Just is fail.
    Not necessarily, I ran with a 0/51/20 build for quite a while in lolNaxx/OS/EoE and did just fine without JotJ and AD. If not having either is causing issues your healers need to pick up the slack or you need more gear, however for progression content I definitely take both.

    The build I use for progression is here.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9868

    I think you fail to realize 2/2 is just as effective as 1/2, there's absolutely no reason to ignore builds with that.
    And 1/2 iJudge is just as effective as 2/2 so why waste the point if it could be used elsewhere as a slight bonus to the raid or yourself?
    3DS Friend Code: 1891-2236-0134

  7. #27

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dedweight
    Not necessarily, I ran with a 0/51/20 build for quite a while in lolNaxx/OS/EoE and did just fine without JotJ and AD. If not having either is causing issues your healers need to pick up the slack or you need more gear, however for progression content I definitely take both.

    The build I use for progression is here.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9868

    And 1/2 iJudge is just as effective as 2/2 so why waste the point if it could be used elsewhere as a slight bonus to the raid or yourself?
    As has been explained, the second point in Improved Judgements is taken without consideration of the 969 rotation, because it neither helps nor hinders it. It's taken because some individuals don't value 1/5 Benediction or 1/2 Improve Might as highly. The reduced cooldown is helpful when needing to tag muliple targets or when things just go unexpectedly. Then as another mentioned there's the interaction between judgement frequency and relic up time, again when not dealing with bosses or a strict 969.

    Essentially it's the same as the 3 points people debate puting into Divinity, Divine Guardian, Improved Hammer of Justice, or poor old Reckoning (rest in peace). It's a stylistic approach that doesn't appear to have any strong positives or negatives in the grand scheme. Blindly calling it a waste because you're unimaginative only wounds your credibility.

  8. #28

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bael
    Essentially it's the same as the 3 points people debate puting into Divinity, Divine Guardian, Improved Hammer of Justice, or poor old Reckoning (rest in peace). It's a stylistic approach that doesn't appear to have any strong positives or negatives in the grand scheme. Blindly calling it a waste because you're unimaginative only wounds your credibility.
    I wouldn't say I'm blindly calling it a waste, I've tested it as 2/2 and 1/2, 2/2 iJudge didn't benefit me at all in regards to mitigation via JotJ or threat with the reduced cooldown. Maybe I am "unimaginative" but I don't need to be imaginative when seeing that getting ZERO benefit out of 2/2 iJudge in MOST situations compared to getting SOME benefit out of the other talents available in MOST scenarios seems to be a wasted point and knowing most situations that you deemed 2/2 being beneficial can be prevented/fixed negates the need for 2/2 even more.

    Even with 2/2 iJudge I find you do drop into some form of the 9696 rotation anyway, which leads to the libram uptime comment, you won't see Libram of Obstructions proc up any more or less than it already is IF your using your threat abilities.

    Also with the "tag multiple mob" comment the only place I can see that as being useful is while solo farming but I find mounting up and gathering a bunch of aggressive melee mobs with ret aura up or dropping consecrate works just as well.

    I might find a use in 2/2 iJudge in PvP but that may be it, in PvE I just don't have the GCD's to make it useful.
    3DS Friend Code: 1891-2236-0134

  9. #29
    Martini
    Guest

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Just to be another person to confirm 2/2 iJudge DOES NOT afect you 96969 rotaiton. Think about why its a 96969 rotation.....

    The only thing about it will be that judgement will sit there for a little bit off the CD, but if you are following your abilities and using them all you'll still use it as if it were a 9 second CD. Also how many times have you been trying to pick multiple adds and hit judgement and it was on CD? This will actully help with that situation.

    A lot of people are falling into a trap. They are reading about their class and see information such as this posted. Then they run around and see it rehashed and rehashed. They see some silly reasons why people actually take the points in abilities and take that to heart. Then they want to go and critisize people and not fully understand the abilty themselves. I am guilty of it myself, and no I'm not being hypociritcal, I'm learning and fixing my past mistakes.

    iJudge is taken at 1/2 for the same reason SA is taken at 1/2. Its not needed to perform adequately, but again there is truely nothing wrong with taking 2/2 in either. It's personal prefrence.

  10. #30

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parium
    iJudge is taken at 1/2 for the same reason SA is taken at 1/2. Its not needed to perform adequately, but again there is truely nothing wrong with taking 2/2 in either. It's personal prefrence.
    Yeah exactly... It's pretty much a matter of personal preference... If your rotation is simple and you're not using exorcism, avenger's shield, and concecration every time it's off of CD, there is pretty much no reason to pick up SA. But if you actually use all of them, then it would be a good idea to pick up 1/2 or 2/2 SA because you won't be able to generate mana fast enough with just divine plea up especially on some fights where you're not tanking but DPsing such as XT's heart or mimiron p2 and you can't get any mana back from sanctuary.

    The reason I prefer to have 2/2 imp judgements is because I don't think there is a better talent that I can get in the ret tree. 1/2 imp bom is pretty useless considering that holy pallies usually get 2/2. Another major reason why I get 2/2 imp judgements is because I (just like 90% or more of the prot pallies) use libram of obstruction and the extra 352 block value (which ads up to be closer to 500 or more with talents and meta) is a lot of extra mitigation and I want that to be up as much as possible during any fight, especially a boss fight.
    [23:43:22] [P] [85:Bowsjob]: If its between 2 holy pallys its gonna be a gear fight most likely

  11. #31

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parium
    Also how many times have you been trying to pick multiple adds and hit judgement and it was on CD?
    Very often.
    This will actully help with that situation.
    Indeed so.

  12. #32

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sV0bZVhxA0uMGsIufzxf00bNGcz
    That is my current tanking build. granted i did not get JotJ, Divine Sacrifice or Imp of it, but in grabbing the reduced disorientation/fear effects and reduced stun time is very helpful when there is no fear ward/ tremor totem or if EMFH is on CD. Ive also found that the 5% crit is nice to have but it's swing procs can be wasted on white dmg where as with 5/5 sotp your single target dmg is steadily increased thus letting you focus on grabbing more adds or off tanking a mob while the feral druid tank innervates or Brezzes a person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isaiah View Post
    Congratulations to Egypt, who after many wipes over a very long raid lasting most of the week, resulting in some very close attempts earlier this morning, has finally downed Mub'arak, earning a tribute to insanity. Now that they have completed trial, will Paragon beat them to the punch in ICC? Only time will tell. According to a very credible source, some of the loots included liberty, freedom of speech, and, most importantly, the internets.

  13. #33

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    0/53/18


    /thread.


  14. #34
    Martini
    Guest

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazbi
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sV0bZVhxA0uMGsIufzxf00bNGcz
    That is my current tanking build. granted i did not get JotJ, Divine Sacrifice or Imp of it, but in grabbing the reduced disorientation/fear effects and reduced stun time is very helpful when there is no fear ward/ tremor totem or if EMFH is on CD. Ive also found that the 5% crit is nice to have but it's swing procs can be wasted on white dmg where as with 5/5 sotp your single target dmg is steadily increased thus letting you focus on grabbing more adds or off tanking a mob while the feral druid tank innervates or Brezzes a person.
    when do you get stunned? I can think of one place in WotLK Raiding - Abom wing beyond that, none. Even then its such a small reduction it's still almost useless. Why no JotJ? It's like our version of thunderclap, boss hits you less often you die less fast. Ret>Holy for threat period. Grabbing adds off the tank due to SotP? I thought that's what taunt was for? And something else that's kinda scary. You are using the examples of another tank using abilities like Brez and Innervate to support why you are specced a certain way...



    Quote Originally Posted by Lightstrike
    0/53/18


    /thread.

    I'm sorry did sacred shield become part of our rotation? I missed that memo.

  15. #35

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    Its actually ok, if you dont have a holy paladin with you.

  16. #36
    Martini
    Guest

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?


  17. #37

    Re: Help with a Prot Pally build?

    The simple fact is that you cannot expect to maintank every encounter.. another simple fact is that in a decent guild you won't be the best person to maintank every encounter. Almost every encounter in ulduar has points where there is raidwide burst damage, so having divine sacrifice and then using it in conjuction with divine shield (or divine protection if you have aggro), is a fucking great way of helping the raid.

    You can throw the 2 points from divine guardian into improved HoJ if you want but it's neither here nor there.

    It seems very hypocritical to make a crass remark about my post when the blog page you linked had everything mine did and then said at the bottom: "The other talents I have con be considered filler talents. that is to say i really only picked them up to get further down the tree. Feel free to place those points wherever you desire."

    Talk shit much?


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