The neverending Conundrum

[Myzou]

So, I'm still at a loss.

All the EoE PuGs I meet say the same thing: No Experience, No Thanks.

However, exactly HOW do we get said experience without going?

You can say videos, etc, but that's not the same thing. You can watch thousands of Safety Dance videos, and yet you're 99% bound to die on your first try of it. This is the mindset of all PuG groups, whereas I normally don't care, as I typically will have experience, but when it came to Eye, I just can't get experience.

What grinds it further is the fact in at least half of those PuGs, friends of the leaders who have no experience are dragged along, why? So they can get experience.

But I guess when you're explaining what to do to one healer, the other can't listen, or when you say something to one hunter, the other obviously won't pay attention.

What is with this mindset in the game? It's as if no one is even willing to teach. I've had plenty of groups in naxx, etc, that the others had no experience, and I simply told them what to do. If they messed up, they learned, and we'd try again. Is another few minutes of your life seriously worth THAT much that you'd refuse to help?


Sorry, just UGH, Got another invite to EoE today after talking to them for about 30 minutes, and as I log over (20 seconds max), I get a whisper saying "Sorry, the assistant grabbed another"

So I ignored him, and logged off.

How many others have dealt/are dealing with this in game lately?

[diseous]

I joint a guild that raids, are there none on your server?

[Fosorrow]

It kind of makes sense if you think about it. Maly is the hardest (in terms of all easy modes) T7 level boss, so people don't want to deal with spending time for others to learn. While it is kind of unfair, like you said, you will probably fail the first (few) time(s), and it can take a while to get back, rebuff and get ready for the pull again. While taking 1 or 2 people who haven't done it in 10s wouldn't hurt too bad (and more in 25s), it could still end up being a pain, especially if those who have done it suck.

Best advice I can give is try and find a guild to raid with. That way you can do Ulduar, and probably find a few people during nonraid times to help you go do Maly for experience. Either that, or start your own pug and find 9/24 other people who do know what theyre doing, that way if you do bad, then hopefully they could pick up your slack :P.

It is unfair, but it's they're perogative, and pugs don't have to be fair if the leader doesn't want to be (hence all the ninja's) unfortunately.

[conscript]

So, I'm still at a loss.

However, exactly HOW do we get said experience without going?

Start your own pug group. /endthread

[Myzou]

Start your own pug group. /endthread

Cause you know, starting a PuG for something you have barely any idea how to run is ALWAYS a smart idea, yep <_<

And I forgot to mention: I dont raid with guilds, I hate the loot systems they use. :P

[davesurfer]

Cause you know, starting a PuG for something you have barely any idea how to run is ALWAYS a smart idea, yep <_<

And I forgot to mention: I dont raid with guilds, I hate the loot systems they use. :P

PUG loot system is better?

[Preach07]

PUG loot system is better?

I think I understand where he's coming from. DKP is long term, and you may risk joining a raiding guild and not seeing loot for a few weeks. In a PuG you are almost guaranteed something for you will drop unless you are BiS geared already. You come, you loot, you go, it's easy and doesn't require a lot of commitment.

As for requiring experience and all that, I was in the same boat as you OP until I learnt the encounter. Now I'm like everyone else, not wanting to waste my time for other's benefit. So I'l reiterate what people have already suggested, make your own PuG, or join a raiding guild.

It doesn't have to even be a good PuG you're making. Ask LFM in trade channel, and just invite anyone without requirements. Let them know you never did it before. Most newbies won't care as they want to see the boss anyway. Learn the encounter this way. Once you feel comfortable with all the things going on, even if you never managed to actually down the boss in your PuG, you can start trying to get invited into "better" PuGs. When people say no experience you're just gonna have to be confident enough in yourself to tell them you will play decent, and won't be a problem. It's a sucky way to do it, but it's how I did it. No one wanted to PuG him in the first 2 months anyway.

[Preach07]

An additional side note, it's my experience that even the Maly PuGs that demand achievements and gear manage to fail a couple of times before downing the boss. I have only ever one shot it with guild, with one exception. It was a good PuG, I got lucky. Anyway, point being, from your point of view you shouldn't be too worried that you will be the one fucking up for the group. The likelihood there are others contributing is high.

[kladde]

I'd imagine it's frustrating. But it is not anyones elses responsibility to make sure everyone on the server gets a fair chance at raiding. If I were to set up a pug raid my first priority would be to do what I can to make the run as quick and smooth as possible. The easiest way of doing this is finding people that can show that they've completed said raid before, and have decent gear. Looking at gear and achievements is by no means a guarantee for a smooth run, but they seem to be the best tools availible.

[Varithorn1]

You can say videos, etc, but that's not the same thing. You can watch thousands of Safety Dance videos, and yet you're 99% bound to die on your first try of it.

I didn't. Maybe you're bad. Staying on topic, just get friends to carry you. I killed malygos25 2 days after hitting 80, still in greens, and still did better than most people in p3. Skilled players are welcome, even with lack of gear/acheives.

[Dizzygnome]

You can say videos, etc, but that's not the same thing. You can watch thousands of Safety Dance videos, and yet you're 99% bound to die on your first try of it. This is the mindset of all PuG groups, whereas I normally don't care, as I typically will have experience, but when it came to Eye, I just can't get experience.

I disagree.

When I went EoE for the first time all i'd done was watch the tankspot vid over and over and practice with the drakes (daily quest near Nexus) for a bit.

[theredviola]

I joint a guild that raids, are there none on your server?

QFT

If you want to do it THAT badly... join a raiding guild and quit QQing on the forums that PuGs won't let you in... it's probably a blessing in disguise anyway.

[zsuper]

If you're actually a good raider who's capable of reading strategies and executing without massive fail or retardation, there are probably a lot of good or decent guilds that will invite you and carry you through old content for gear.

We've been doing it since SSC/TK, and we're still doing it, though not as often. Since WotLK came, it seems that there are absolutely no good guild-less raiders, just kids with downs syndrome who gem stamina for their socket bonuses.
And for that reason alone, I can kind of understand why a PUG wouldn't risk someone without experience.

[nrross]

just kids with downs syndrome who gem stamina for their socket bonuses.

Well I mean, that is a bit rich coming from someone who plays the game seeking to be validated as a human being. Someone who gets upset because they can no longer command crowds to sit in awe of them. You aren't exactly a model of mental health yourself.

[underdogba]

PUG loot system is better?

Oddly enough, my experience is in agreement! For Naxx25 I was involved in a guild alliance that didn't put much thought into formalizing loot rules. Everything was /roll limited to main-spec appropriate pieces (followed by greed offspec rolls), with a limit of 1 piece per raid night until all rollers had gotten something. The slate was wiped entirely clean for every raid night.

Prior to this guild alliance forming, I had pugged some 25's a few times, and had already gotten a few drops and collected some badges. I was basically in the position of benefiting from some targeted rolls on specific pieces.

You can probably predict what happens when we roll into Naxx25 with other players of my role coming in with blues. They win something almost every night, because everything is an upgrade. I might roll on one thing the whole week, and get beaten by someone who had already won pieces on two prior raid nights.

The net result: after about a month and a half of Naxx25 full clears, I win exactly one tier token and one epic. The other players of my role end up in full Valorous and Epic achievement. I stop attending the alliance raids and just pug, and very quickly end up getting some reasonable gear.

The moral of the story: if your guild doesn't take the time to at least think out a fair loot system, PUGs can actually be better.

[elapadrinar]

Oddly enough, my experience is in agreement! For Naxx25 I was involved in a guild alliance that didn't put much thought into formalizing loot rules. Everything was /roll limited to main-spec appropriate pieces (followed by greed offspec rolls), with a limit of 1 piece per raid night until all rollers had gotten something. The slate was wiped entirely clean for every raid night.

Prior to this guild alliance forming, I had pugged some 25's a few times, and had already gotten a few drops and collected some badges. I was basically in the position of benefiting from some targeted rolls on specific pieces.

You can probably predict what happens when we roll into Naxx25 with other players of my role coming in with blues. They win something almost every night, because everything is an upgrade. I might roll on one thing the whole week, and get beaten by someone who had already won pieces on two prior raid nights.

The net result: after about a month and a half of Naxx25 full clears, I win exactly one tier token and one epic. The other players of my role end up in full Valorous and Epic achievement. I stop attending the alliance raids and just pug, and very quickly end up getting some reasonable gear.

The moral of the story: if your guild doesn't take the time to at least think out a fair loot system, PUGs can actually be better.

l2clearnaxxin1night

[Evilsoap]

Well I mean, that is a bit rich coming from someone who plays the game seeking to be validated as a human being. Someone who gets upset because they can no longer command crowds to sit in awe of them. You aren't exactly a model of mental health yourself.

He sounds a bit spoiled if anything, nothing like the mental retardation half of the WoW populace seems to have. He's also mostly right here, most decent players are already affiliated with a guild. However, I do know some people with whom I cleared Sunwell with that have resorted to pugs or partial pugs because the guild has changed so much that raiding with the guild has become an endless stream of frustration for them.