T7(25) vs T8(10) - Gloves for Discipline

[G l o w y r m]

Hey guys, tonight I nabbed me Valorous Handwraps of Sanctification. I already own Valorous Handwraps of Faith though...I was wondering if anyone thinks the extra 14 SP is justified in dropping ~.02 seconds off my spells from losing 1.25% haste. The amount of crit I lose is negligible, especially since I have so much already. The T7(25) Shadow gloves are just really awesomely itemized, I was scratching my head when looking at T8(25) too wondering if I would even use those.

[exorcistis]

Had to register just to answer you: glove stats is your asnwer. If you cant see that tier8 gloves have a crapload of spirit, then t.t with more itemization.

[Worshaka]

I'm a bit confused... the title infers this is for a Disc spec yet you link the Shadow T8 gloves in comparison with the Shadow T7 gloves.

If you are talking about DPS you will see from this thread that both are basically on par. However considering you can get a 2pc set bonus with T8 and that you will still likely have enough haste for 2 x MF = 1 MB CD i'd go with T8. I also like the fact that increase sp increases the dps of everything you do and isn't subject to rng.

[-Ethos-]

Take Shoulder, Chest, Gloves and Pants of the holy t8 set to get 4 set bonus and then taking the shadow tier helm (because it's again itemised better with crit and haste and even has a intellect socket bonus) seems to be better than taking the shadow gloves again, since the shadow t8 isnt itemised as well for us as the t7 was.

If this isn't really what you were talking about, im probably just confused :<

[Mosshorn]

I'm a bit confused... the title infers this is for a Disc spec yet you link the Shadow T8 gloves in comparison with the Shadow T7 gloves.

If you are talking about DPS you will see from this thread that both are basically on par. However considering you can get a 2pc set bonus with T8 and that you will still likely have enough haste for 2 x MF = 1 MB CD i'd go with T8. I also like the fact that increase sp increases the dps of everything you do and isn't subject to rng.

I use the Shadow gloves when I'm Disc healing. Good SP, crit, and some haste, they seem right up Disc's alley. So I'm assuming he was asking, for Disc healing, if switching from those to the healing T8 would be better.

[G l o w y r m]

Had to register just to answer you: glove stats is your asnwer. If you cant see that tier8 gloves have a crapload of spirit, then t.t with more itemization.

What? Spirit is absolute garbage for Disc, so what are you insinuating?

I'm a bit confused... the title infers this is for a Disc spec yet you link the Shadow T8 gloves in comparison with the Shadow T7 gloves.

If you are talking about DPS you will see from this thread that both are basically on par. However considering you can get a 2pc set bonus with T8 and that you will still likely have enough haste for 2 x MF = 1 MB CD i'd go with T8. I also like the fact that increase sp increases the dps of everything you do and isn't subject to rng.

No why would I be talking about DPS? I said I'm Disc. The shadow T7(25) are the best Disc gloves. Crit is the main Disc stat. The shadow T8 is just what I happened to get being the only priest in the group last night. Just because the gloves have shadow set bonuses doesn't make them bad for healers...especially Disc, most of what we get looks like DPS gear.

I use the Shadow gloves when I'm Disc healing. Good SP, crit, and some haste, they seem right up Disc's alley. So I'm assuming he was asking, for Disc healing, if switching from those to the healing T8 would be better.

No I'm not...I'm asking exactly what I said...if you would drop the item I said I have for the item I said I got. Your first sentence is 100% correct though. Pretty simple, I don't get why you are all confused. I'm guessing you guys aren't primarily Disc healers. I did not mess up the links.

You don't even have to look at the items, I stated the scenario and asked if it was something you would do. Would you drop 1.25% haste for 14 SP as Disc? It's only .02 seconds. I then went on to say that even the T8 25 man gloves don't seem as good as the T7 25 man ones.

Take Shoulder, Chest, Gloves and Pants of the holy t8 set to get 4 set bonus and then taking the shadow tier helm (because it's again itemised better with crit and haste and even has a intellect socket bonus) seems to be better than taking the shadow gloves again, since the shadow t8 isnt itemised as well for us as the t7 was.

If this isn't really what you were talking about, im probably just confused :<

Wow guys, it's a pretty well written paragraph. I'm not asking about what I should or shouldn't get in the future. I know what I WANT but I'm talking about what I HAVE. I have T7(25) and happened to have gotten T8(10). Was just wondering if you guys would drop the stats on the T7(25) for the slight SP gain on T8(10), which is exactly what I said in my OP but elaborated a bit.

[Xelaeno]

stay with t7.5, more intellect and you need intel. no spirit but spirit don't benefit you much as discipline anyway. if you gem yellow/orange, the socket bonus is at least more useful than +4 hit ratings and will yield more crit in total than t8. not to mention the haste.

between 14 intel and 41 haste vs 14sp, i would go with 14 intel and 41 haste if i were you

edit: i'm ignoring the amount of mp5 granted from t8 spirit as i'm assuming you don't have mana problems

[Astyan]

T8 25 (Holy) 4 pieces bonus is godly for Discipline. With shield spamming it's basically constant +250SP (and even if you don't spam, it's unrivaled for the well known PW:S+Penance+FoL combo on MT healing). Even if you can swap in DPS gear for more appropriate stats (Discipline itemization being comparable to caster DPS gear without hit), I'd suggest you drop the idea of running on Shadow tier gear and get the 4 pieces Holy instead. It has good amounts of crit on both head and chest plus shitloads of haste, which is also good for Discipline, and you can add in Discipline oriented gear outside of tier gear.

Now since you got your hands on those Shadow gloves, I'd suggest you drop them. They have hit as gem bonus, they don't have more crit and you'd lose Int, a major stat for Discipline.

[syanid]

The question is, did you find yourself in a situation where people died on you because you needed that last millisecond to land the heal on them?

I never found haste to be a stat I'd aim for as disc, tho a lot of pve discs prefer it. I'd hunt for spellpower, so to answer your original questions - yes, I'd get the spellpower and I'd drop the haste in a heartbeat.

Reason: the PW:S benefits from spellpower (among other things). It's one of your strongest spells. Also, pve damage is pretty predictable. As disc priest, you can cast the PW:S on the tank (or someone else) in order to get Borrowed Time. Now, 25% haste for 1 spell is pretty good, if you know when the damage spike will occur. And usually, really exceptional healers do know that and they act accordingly.

[G l o w y r m]

T8 25 (Holy) 4 pieces bonus is godly for Discipline. With shield spamming it's basically constant +250SP (and even if you don't spam, it's unrivaled for the well known PW:S+Penance+FoL combo on MT healing). Even if you can swap in DPS gear for more appropriate stats (Discipline itemization being comparable to caster DPS gear without hit), I'd suggest you drop the idea of running on Shadow tier gear and get the 4 pieces Holy instead. It has good amounts of crit on both head and chest plus shitloads of haste, which is also good for Discipline, and you can add in Discipline oriented gear outside of tier gear.

Now since you got your hands on those Shadow gloves, I'd suggest you drop them. They have hit as gem bonus, they don't have more crit and you'd lose Int, a major stat for Discipline.

Oh believe me I would love the 4p Holy bonus. But this is not about my dream loot or future loot. Believe me I know what I should get. It's not as easy as telling me to drop something and get something else. I don't know why so many people responded with gear lectures. It was a question about 2 specific pieces currently in my possession. The shadow T7(25) happens to be one of the best Disc gloves pre Ulduar anyway.

stay with t7.5, more intellect and you need intel. no spirit but spirit don't benefit you much as discipline anyway. if you gem yellow/orange, the socket bonus is at least more useful than +4 hit ratings and will yield more crit in total than t8. not to mention the haste.

between 14 intel and 41 haste vs 14sp, i would go with 14 intel and 41 haste if i were you

edit: i'm ignoring the amount of mp5 granted from t8 spirit as i'm assuming you don't have mana problems

Awesome answer. Thanks. I was pretty sure what I was going to do just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

[Worshaka]

What? Spirit is absolute garbage for Disc, so what are you insinuating?

It's not complete garbage it's just less useful... if you are min/maxing you get more regen from mp/5 per ilvl but mp/5 isn't necessarily on every item. Does that mean you should stack spirit? of course not. Does that mean you should avoid spirit? the answer is again no.

No why would I be talking about DPS? I said I'm Disc. The shadow T7(25) are the best Disc gloves. Crit is the main Disc stat. The shadow T8 is just what I happened to get being the only priest in the group last night. Just because the gloves have shadow set bonuses doesn't make them bad for healers...especially Disc, most of what we get looks like DPS gear.

Actually you didn't mention anything in the body of your post, you just had a title that said for Disc with no information explaining what you were doing. Now that you have clarified it I understand completely, communication always helps.

You also seemed to have made the assumption that because the T7.5 shadow gloves were better than T7.5 healing gloves the same must be true for T8.5. As someone pointed out above that is probably not the case and if you are planning to get the 4pc set bonus (which looks pretty decent for disc) you probably want to plan which 4 items will be the healing set.

You don't even have to look at the items, I stated the scenario and asked if it was something you would do. Would you drop 1.25% haste for 14 SP as Disc? It's only .02 seconds. I then went on to say that even the T8 25 man gloves don't seem as good as the T7 25 man ones.

Haste doesnt work the way you infer here... haste increases the speed you cast, that appears in the form of your casts decreasing in time. However the amount they decrease is dependant on their cast time... therefore 1.25% haste does not equalte to 0.02 seconds... it may for spell 1 but spell 2 might be 0.01 seconds. Penance & Flash Heal for example won't both be affected by the exact same timeframe.

Lastly, I can't believe your raid gave you T8.5 gloves so you could get the shadow offset coz they might be marginally better than the healing ones. As it's been pointed out they aren't even better than T7.5 and you obviously dont want the T8.5 healing gloves... they really should have gone to someone else and you should prioritise your loots to items you can use effectively rather than looting the items for the same slot 5 times for marginal upgrades... you will find your raid will gear up a lot quicker and farm content a lot easier if you effeciently distribute loot.

[Proletariat]

lol.

I'm assuming he got those off of Emalon, since he said the reason he received the gloves was because he was the only priest in the group. So now that we can put unnecessary name-calling and guild bashing aside...

Between only these two gloves, I would use the upgraded version. Haste is a lovely output stat, but I don't believe I've found myself hardcore spamming heals left right and centre in Ulduar just yet. Like one argument posted above, a lot of damage is predictable and can be easily countered by methodically timed heals.

And yes I know [Super Gloves of Super Duper Discipline] may be better, yadda yadda. I don't get why people posted stat lectures when it's obvious, even from the thread title, what was the OP's intent. I could care less about how random gloves rank up against T8, and neither does he.

[Serengir]

Hi Glowyrm.

Do stick to the T7.5 shadow gloves. They own T8 shadow.

As a PvE disc healer I plan on going for T8/T8.5 holy set. I will have to get all the crit gear I can to offset the silly stats on those, but the 4pcs bonus is worth it. I was planning on replacing them only once I got all 4, but they look too nice

[AetherMcLoud]

I'm a bit confused... the title infers this is for a Disc spec yet you link the Shadow T8 gloves in comparison with the Shadow T7 gloves.

If you are talking about DPS you will see from this thread that both are basically on par. However considering you can get a 2pc set bonus with T8 and that you will still likely have enough haste for 2 x MF = 1 MB CD i'd go with T8. I also like the fact that increase sp increases the dps of everything you do and isn't subject to rng.

AFAIK Shadow T7.5 gloves were best in slot for disc pre-3.1.

[Tumdumdumdum]

For disc the set bonus of T8 is great (healing set). But until you get 4 tier items, I think the T7.5 from the shadow set is better. I'm keeping em too for a while

If I were you I wouldn't take the T8 shadow version.

[mutantboy]

my first instinct was to say stop obsessing about minutiae - which wouldn't be helpful (even if a little true)

My 2nd was to look at what is available. Um. You get crit or haste. You have to balance. Bottom line is the 4set healing bonus is worth having so you have to decide if that is the set you want. Pretty much nothng is totally itemised perfectly for Disc priests. Compromise is everything it would seem.

I am certain that with 4 items of T8 I will be an effective healer. So I am not going to obsess about being 1 or 2% better/worse off than perhaps I could be. Maybe if my guild was currently working toward Alganon I would care. But min/maxxing to the extent that you worry about trivia like this? No thanks.

[Mosshorn]

No I'm not...I'm asking exactly what I said...if you would drop the item I said I have for the item I said I got. Your first sentence is 100% correct though. Pretty simple, I don't get why you are all confused. I'm guessing you guys aren't primarily Disc healers. I did not mess up the links.

My bad, I knew what you were getting at, I just looked at this real late and didn't glance at the set bonuses, thought the T8 you got were healy, not also shadow.

But no, I'd keep the int and haste over the small SP increase.