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  1. #1

    No more feral cat/bear changes?

    I'm concerned with the way Ferals are headed in Cataclysm. I've been keeping up with the changes (and lack-thereof) but it feels like we've hit a wall. I'm not in the beta, so please correct any of my concerns, but..

    For one, it seems like our tree greatly lacks choices. I've heard some other classes have had it just as bad, but no other classes out there share there tree with another role like Ferals do. With our tree in the beta, it seems like the only difference between our 2 specs is around 5-8 points, but aside from that, we have zero other choices to go for no matter what we choose to do (DPS/Bear/PvP, all filled up with points).

    I suggested a long time ago they split the trees into 2, Feral Cat and Dire Bear respectively, giving the Druids 4 trees, but obviously that's not going to happen, since Blizz apparently likes the way Ferals are atm.

    I guess my real concern is how are we holding up in DPS/Tanking? I've waited to ask this question until this long into the beta, since Premades and Heroics are now released. I just hope it's not too late to get some real major changes in, since, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't GC or another blue said that the last major pass at trees was a few builds ago? Either way, I just got a few questions for any cats in the beta (I'm not a real hardcore Bear, but any info on them would also be nice): How are our rotations (well, priorities)? Is it more relaxed than it is on Live? Any major changes to the way we DPS? Is the T11 4pc bonus actually helpful, or just wtfsilly?

    So many questions. Thanks if you can answer anything.
    Last edited by Lionhearte0; 2010-09-23 at 08:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Dps is impossible to judge atm, since most of our yellow attacks are still based on feral ap, while they intend to replace fap with weapon dps. So mangle/shred hit for like 2k atm at lvl85. Ravage and swipe are already using weapon dps, they are doing nice dmg, but you can't really use those to judge the state of feral dps

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Dps is impossible to judge atm, since most of our yellow attacks are still based on feral ap, while they intend to replace fap with weapon dps. So mangle/shred hit for like 2k atm at lvl85. Ravage and swipe are already using weapon dps, they are doing nice dmg, but you can't really use those to judge the state of feral dps
    So it may be too early to judge after all.. Does our rotation/priority list feel the same?

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    So it may be too early to judge after all.. Does our rotation/priority list feel the same?
    from what i read on these forums every day, mangle does more dmg then shred so atm our priority's are screwed over but i am sure this will get fixed

    so far the rotation seems exactly the same only difference is what todo whit those 3 ravages after a charge that got 90% extra crit? theoraticly they are a good choice but that realy comes down do theocrafting. and if they are a good choice should we walk out and charge back in? probely not as of the loss of melee hits.

    but i dont expect any major chances indeed. is kinda like whit LK all classes got a cool new ability we just got a cooldown as blizzard ran out of idea's
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Solo on the lvl85 target dummy, with my buffs/debuffs up, mangle hits for 2.2k and shred for 4k, in my green/blue lvling/normaldungeon gear at lvl85. FB doesnt hit for much either, tho with a full load of energy to go with it i managed to get up to 14k crits with it.

    On one hand the rotation feels easier, since you dont need to clip SR anymore to ensure it's up before doing a 5point rip, and with the 6sec longer durations on rake/SR.

    But on the other hand our crit is so pathetically low in blue gear at lvl85 that it's still quite hard to get enough combopoints to keep everything going.

    (after gemming for agi+crit and reforging to +crit im sitting at ~32% crit)
    Last edited by Mihir; 2010-09-23 at 11:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Shifthappens's Avatar
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    DPS rotation is actually still chalenging, u just do more, with alot of haste on PTR atm i can fit many more shreds, FBs into rotation. it did get abit easier due to SR change, but only to help us out. and i like that change, u can refresh dots before u refresh SR and DPS loss wont be so drastic.

    but they REALLY need to do a number pass for cats, better now or who will want us in raids.
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  7. #7
    The Patient Reefiis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    while they intend to replace fap with weapon dps
    Being a dooface, soz
    Yes and no, but maybe.

  8. #8
    Iv always liked feral and enjoyed it alot in raids in wrath and late BC, But it dont seem as appealing anymore as moonkin does.. With moonkins new mechanics and the way it looks with spells / eclipse's. I am tempted to roll moonkin i dont want to i wanna stay feral i will probs take moonkin / feral items as i level up to 85 see what tickles my taste buds more. but on PTR i went from like 8k stable to 4-5k.... thats a BIG drop imo. Tho its probs due to fap / weapon dmg not being fixxed so will have to see agian when 4.0 goes live.

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    it's pretty easy to build up both a feral and a caster set during leveling, since often there's only 1 leather reward for quests, either spelldmg or agi

  10. #10
    Mechagnome ovideozn's Avatar
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    While the specs can't vary much (except maybe for the PvP one where I think you have to choose between shapeshift mana cost reduction, spell damage taken reduction and..something else) your performance will be, as usual, counting on the way you choose to play. Although you will start will less crit, Shred is much cheaper energy wise + haste grants you more energy regen (should) and our SR, rake and Rip are longer by default (glyphs not counted) so you will probably have lots of combo points to mess around with the finishers as you wish. One thing's for sure, you will use Ferocious Bite much more than before, and you will probably need to time and use your charge and tiger's fury properly for that extra DPS

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    while they intend to replace fap with weapon dps.
    Hehe...

    Sorry.

    We can never expect changes on the same scale as other classes, because we have two completely different roles cramped into a single tree.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    Q: But who are the forum QQers going to QQ at now?
    A: They'll find another name and still miss the point that Blizzard designs as a collective.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk
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    I don't really like that they're changing SR. It's one of the mechanics of the spec that makes it really entertaining. Now it's just a SnD ripoff with no REAL loss of running out. I wonder if Rip will be of higher priority to get up now. We'll see. I like the feral charge/ravage mechanic though. Feral are used to not having to go onto the boss in stealth and I think this mechanic is good to introduce an "opener" in PvE. At the start of a boss fight you will want to feral charge now.

  13. #13
    Hmmm, from what I could make out of the latest talent trees, it looks like we have more or less the same spec for tanking and dps ala TBC style. There are a few cookie-cutters, but for the most part the spec encompasses all the tanking abilities and all the key dps abilities.

    wowtal.com/#k=-wZhLJV6y.a0o.druid - Points from brutal impact can be placed elsewhere. Just didn't know what to do with them.

    On-topic: I think you needn't concern yourself with numbers at this point. If the mechanics work, numbers can be adjusted accordingly.

    Off-topic: I can't find information about FFF. As I understand it now stack, does that mean the effect also stacks? So rank 0 is x armor debuff and rank 1 is 2x armor debuff? Or is it a simple PvP quirk to stop people easily dispelling it?

  14. #14
    Field Marshal Redemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanjin View Post
    I like the feral charge/ravage mechanic though. Feral are used to not having to go onto the boss in stealth and I think this mechanic is good to introduce an "opener" in PvE. At the start of a boss fight you will want to feral charge now.
    I wonder if doing so much burst damage at the start of the fight wouldn't draw aggro though. Especially since threat is something Blizzard wants to make an issue again. Also, with Stampede, you still wouldn't have to stealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapadlo View Post
    Off-topic: I can't find information about FFF. As I understand it now stack, does that mean the effect also stacks? So rank 0 is x armor debuff and rank 1 is 2x armor debuff? Or is it a simple PvP quirk to stop people easily dispelling it?
    It applies a stacking 4% armour debuff, so a full stack will reduce armour by 12%. Expose Armor and Sunder Armor fully stacked will have the same 12%.
    Last edited by Redemption; 2010-09-23 at 01:29 PM.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redemption View Post
    I wonder if doing so much burst damage at the start of the fight wouldn't draw aggro though. Especially since threat is something Blizzard wants to make an issue again. Also, with Stampede, you still wouldn't have to stealth.
    That's what I mean, as Feral is not used to stealth it's cool that Blizzard doesn't force us to open in stealth, as I myself hate that in a PvE setting, just takes time to get to the boss. And you can open anyway. What I'd like to see to counter the burst threat of ravage in the start though, maybe another approach could be viable. Give Feral a Garrote ripoff which is usable under stampede, but consumes the stampede buff if used. Does the same damage as 2 Ravages under a period of time but costs significantly less energy to use. Like/dislike?
    Last edited by Khanjin; 2010-09-23 at 03:29 PM.

  16. #16
    A buddy of mine is on Beta and said feral DPS is pretty sick as far as the converted-to-weapon DPS abilities go.
    The talents in teh tree often have dual purpose (one for bear, one for cat), but not all of them.
    Playing with the talent calc, I've come up with 2 viable tanking specs and 2 viable DPS specs (based on what I know since I'm not actually in Beta and numbers aren't balanced).

    Anyway, he said ferals seem okay and they are actually ahead of the game in tanking (largely due to warrior/paladin numbers being way off with the change of stats).
    That will balance soon, but to me, ferals are doing okay and will be good in both roles right from launch.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Khanjin View Post
    I don't really like that they're changing SR. It's one of the mechanics of the spec that makes it really entertaining. Now it's just a SnD ripoff with no REAL loss of running out.
    I bet you have never reached any remarkable ratings as a feral in PvP arenas? 1 of the major points in changing it was to change the style of feral PvP. I personally love the change as you no longer necessarily need to spend dozens of combo points for SR in a match. It's the most boring skill in WoW just like HfB

    Btw, I just came up with an awesome idea. How about make Stampede effect Pounce as it does for Ravage. Though a but modifications needed :>
    Last edited by VirtuousX; 2010-09-23 at 05:48 PM.

  18. #18
    I love feral, But im still personly working out how kitty step ravage will work well in raids, Fights where there is alot of movement i see it working well kitty step and ravage the targets face off, but at the target of a fight will we kitty step, ravage spam (till buff gone) then do normal rotation after that? with mangle - rake - shred - rip and so on (You would have SR already up i guess as of the 1st Ravage.

  19. #19
    Field Marshal Redemption's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxSSDK View Post
    ravage the targets face off
    You need to be behind the target to Ravage.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    So it may be too early to judge after all..
    duh

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