Thread: Swipe dmg

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  1. #1

    Swipe dmg

    so i just got back from tanking around 4-5 instances in PTR and i think i like the new system.It makes bear tanking fun and challenging to play,with Lacerate tabbing and waiting for the proc.what i don't like so far,even though swipe dmg is around 3k in tooltip(around 2.3k avg because armor reduction) i still find it a little bit hard to hold aggro from heavy bursting aoe dps.I know we are supposed to use thrash at 81 but only 1 aoe move from 10-80?? and isn't very good at that this moment.

    i really hope they are modifying the dmg or the threat for swipe so it works a bit better against burst aoe.
    i have a feeling druid is the weakest aoe tank in PTR now.. maybe even beta(i dont play beta though,so its just a though)

    Thoughts? maybe from experience?

  2. #2
    Im wondering if you were using any crowd control in the new instances.

  3. #3
    this is PTR so there's no new instance,but no i didnt use any form of CC

  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    as far i know they nerfed aoe tanking and aoe dmg to shit so that also effects current content. but at level 80 herorics you dont get 1 shot if a dpser has argo

    as for tanknig from 1 to 80, i dont think ferals ever where any good at that. whne it came ot aoe threat. however we where good as we didnt need tobe def capped and didnt need tanknig gear.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  5. #5
    aoe tanking at 85 is as easy as it is now
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=silvermoon&cn=adobi

  6. #6
    I had big problems with AoE threat as a DK as well on the PTR. Also, hunter pet got aggro of me at least 20 times in a nexus hc, with a bad geared hunter.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Torne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildeRoland View Post
    I had big problems with AoE threat as a DK as well on the PTR. Also, hunter pet got aggro of me at least 20 times in a nexus hc, with a bad geared hunter.
    maybe because the hunter didn´t turn off his pet taunt?
    OT: yeah Bear AoE was always a little behind, I hope Trash will put us in line.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torne View Post
    OT: yeah Bear AoE was always a little behind, I hope Trash will put us in line.
    not realy as blzizaard doesnt want aoe tanking anymore blizzard want slow pregresino whit a lot of CC where you need like 1 hour to clear the trash like in MC lol
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    not realy as blzizaard doesnt want aoe tanking anymore blizzard want slow pregresino whit a lot of CC where you need like 1 hour to clear the trash like in MC lol
    well i dont mind cc or anything,i just don't want people from pug(or anyone really) think we druids can't tank shit because we always lose aggro on the few seconds entering the fight from a simple,let's say whirlwind or multishot.

  10. #10
    AoE tanking and AoE DPS chaining in dungeons is gone. The sooner DPS realizes and accepts that, the less PITA LFD will be in Cata.
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  11. #11
    You didn't mention using maul, you didn't mention the fact that feral druid damage is very gimped on PTR and in Beta, are you using berserk on bigger pulls? Using thorns before you pull? Are you just running with dumb DPS who can't wait a few seconds to start AOEing?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by luvlist View Post
    well i dont mind cc or anything,i just don't want people from pug(or anyone really) think we druids can't tank shit because we always lose aggro on the few seconds entering the fight from a simple,let's say whirlwind or multishot.
    What have a seen in videos for the new instances is you rarely AoE stuff, and when you do it obvious to do so. AoE damage went down too, so it will be less dps than say FF on one target. If you take too long you are also going to oom your healer. So remember the days of dps skull first then X, we'll be back to that. There's going to be a lot of player re-training, and with vote kick in place; I have no problem kicking a player with non-cooperative attitude.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire uzumati's Avatar
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    I foresee non guilded DPS que times rising sharply. For me the days of tanking pug runs is over, ill stick to guildies an friends. Dont get me wrong i love this change, always felt like LFG took the friend aspect out of the game, be glad to get back to a friends list full of good players rather than just blindly hitting LFG

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Charo View Post
    You didn't mention using maul, you didn't mention the fact that feral druid damage is very gimped on PTR and in Beta, are you using berserk on bigger pulls? Using thorns before you pull? Are you just running with dumb DPS who can't wait a few seconds to start AOEing?
    i used maul almost everytime the cooldown is up,but with swipe become 30 rage and i believe maul is higher than 15 rage.. at the start of the pulls its really hard to do mangle>swipe>maul before the the dps just start havoc.i do berserk as well and it does help me like once a while.. 3 minutes skill in dungeons can probably be used once in between bosses.have to admit im not using thorn as much because rage is pretty starved for me to go in and out of bear form just so i can get thorn up at the beginning of the fight,when skill's rage went higher.

    By gimped did you mean lower?

    what

  15. #15
    I hate dps that don't focus so yeah bear swipe having shit damage and threat is definately an issue. Mostly I hate LFG dps, people are so so bad at this game.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by luvlist View Post
    so i just got back from tanking around 4-5 instances in PTR and i think i like the new system.It makes bear tanking fun and challenging to play,with Lacerate tabbing and waiting for the proc.what i don't like so far,even though swipe dmg is around 3k in tooltip(around 2.3k avg because armor reduction) i still find it a little bit hard to hold aggro from heavy bursting aoe dps.I know we are supposed to use thrash at 81 but only 1 aoe move from 10-80?? and isn't very good at that this moment.

    i really hope they are modifying the dmg or the threat for swipe so it works a bit better against burst aoe.
    i have a feeling druid is the weakest aoe tank in PTR now.. maybe even beta(i dont play beta though,so its just a though)

    Thoughts? maybe from experience?
    Just bolded a couple words that will help you out.

    The problem with the PTR is what you'll experience between when the pre-cata xpac patch goes live and Cataclysm goes live: you're most likely overgeared for instances balanced by different mechanics, especially 5man instances. It's not that Swipe is weak (it really isn't if you've played enough on the beta), it's that the damage you're taking is too low to get Vengeance high enough. Tanks are being balanced around the assumption that Vengeance is up 100% of the time, and the only content where you'll likely see that is ICC (because the -20% dodge aura simulates how you're going to feel in Cataclysm). That being said, you might actually have to pull larger groups than normal to get Vengeance high enough or have the DPS actually focus-fire your target in content you outgear.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  17. #17
    Compared to warrs, druids have it ridiculously easy, and it feels much smoother having 2 no cd abilities. Tclap crits for about 700 now, on same cd. Shockwave hits about the same as a swipe for me, with 2-3 stacks.

    Of course, I was in full agi gemmed/enchanted gear, using only stam trinkets.

  18. #18
    what disturbes me is that my swipe crits for 6k while my mangle/maul can't get above 5k.
    furthermore the 6sec cd on swipe is really annoying if new adds spawn in between swipes. however, i still like it more than the old swipe spamming....
    Quote Originally Posted by Epok
    Tomorrow morning when I wakeup to discover that feral forms are stealable, I will LoL. Not because they can steal my form but because that poor bastard of a mage might end up with my cat form.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelt View Post
    what disturbes me is that my swipe crits for 6k while my mangle/maul can't get above 5k.
    furthermore the 6sec cd on swipe is really annoying if new adds spawn in between swipes. however, i still like it more than the old swipe spamming....
    You said swipe hits for 6k?? are we talking icc with 30% buff?? cause mines only crit for 4k with 2 set bonus and in 6k gs

    ---------- Post added 2010-09-21 at 01:30 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Just bolded a couple words that will help you out.

    The problem with the PTR is what you'll experience between when the pre-cata xpac patch goes live and Cataclysm goes live: you're most likely overgeared for instances balanced by different mechanics, especially 5man instances. It's not that Swipe is weak (it really isn't if you've played enough on the beta), it's that the damage you're taking is too low to get Vengeance high enough. Tanks are being balanced around the assumption that Vengeance is up 100% of the time, and the only content where you'll likely see that is ICC (because the -20% dodge aura simulates how you're going to feel in Cataclysm). That being said, you might actually have to pull larger groups than normal to get Vengeance high enough or have the DPS actually focus-fire your target in content you outgear.
    This is actually the kind of answer i was looking for.. and makes much more sense about the whole thing now.does the vengeange stacks quite fast in cata?

    and thank you for the detailed information

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by luvlist View Post
    This is actually the kind of answer i was looking for.. and makes much more sense about the whole thing now.does the vengeange stacks quite fast in cata?

    and thank you for the detailed information
    Vengeance will stack as fast as you take damage. You gain 5% of the damage you take as AP, up to a maximum of 10% of your total HP, so it's dependent upon how hard you're hit and how often you are hit.

    At level 85 and about 100k HP in bear and 26% dodge (I'm about 321 ilevel average for my gear now), I was 2manning Blackrock Caverns for my resto druid friend (it's a lvl 80-82 instance classification, I believe)... on trash my Vengeance didn't exceed 4k AP in most cases, on the one boss that spawns two adds that like to do Shadowstep-type tricks on you for 36kish damage per add, I got up to my 10k AP Vengeance stack insanely fast once the adds became active. Vengeance does decay, but the damage you'll start taking on boss fights your level generally will keep it high enough. Raid bosses should be nearly instant max Vengeance after a few hits just from the size of hits you should be taking.

    *edit*: Unfortunately, we forgot to run Recount during the run, so I can't give you the exact damage Swipe (and Thrash) were generating, but it's certainly more than enough to keep adds on you if people don't tunnel-vision on the wrong targets.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2010-09-21 at 06:37 AM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

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