Page 1 of 46
1
2
3
11
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Feral Druids - The Cat Guide.

    The Cat Guide

    Cat Form

    First off lets take a look at Cat Form. Blizzard describes it as

    "Cat Form
    Shape shift into Cat form to increase attack speed and gain the use of various Cat abilities. This form has an innate threat reduction component. The cat is much like the Rogue. You should read the Rogue Basics page for more details on how to play a Rogue. Many Cat abilities are similar to Rogue abilities. Cat form is best for soloing and for party use. If you're a Rogue player, you can appreciate how useful this form can be. Feline Swiftness regains its speed increase when moving from indoors to outdoors. "

    I find this pretty ironic since Feline Swiftness works indoors now and was renamed to Feral swiftness (correct me if i'm wrong though.) Anyways there's also a basline formula to how Cat AP is derived. It is

    #Attack Power is increased by the formula: (Strength x 2) + Agility + (Character Level x 2) - 20

    Now looking at that you may say well Strength is 2 times as effective we should just stack that right? Wrong. If this was pre-3.1 the numbers would agree with you. But since 3.1 both Armor Penatration (known as ArP from hereon) and Agility (Agi from hereon) are significantly better then strength.

    Reason behind the numbers - Since 3.1 both Savage Roar (our main uptime buff ability) and rip (out main DoT) have been overhauled. Our Rip can now crit (making Agility more favorable in itself over Strength since Agility gives Crit rating as well). Our Savage Roar is 30% Damage increase instead of 40% attack power (AP derives directly into Strength ergo making Strength more favorable pre 3.1; Since it is a straight damage increase AGI > STR because of the crit.)

    Also on topic of druid form to cat form ratios; our weapon gives us Feral AP directly from the weapon's DPS or ilvl. It's 14 feral AP per DPS point - 54 If i remember correctly. This will let you figure out what's best for you as you progress through the game.

    So What's better then Agility or Armor Pen?

    Well as mentioned before since 3.1 both armor pen and agility are both better then Strength so what should ferals Gem now? The answer is simple. If you can reach 220 Armor Pen unbuffed and have the Shred Idol & grim toll or Runestone gem for armor pen OR if you have idol of mutilation or RIP Idol then wait till about 350 (also must have GT or MRS . It has no DR and only gets better as you get more of it.

    Agility is also important. It is a generally stated rule that you should have 50% Crit unbuffed. If not maybe gemming agility would be a better option for you.



    Once you reach this threshold Armor pen is the way to go. If you want you can keep stacking agility tho as each point is only a 2 DPS difference or so. With 10 gems that could equal about a 320 DPS loss maximum. Not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

    Another note about ArP

    As stated its best to get to the soft cap (566 with MRS 619 with GT) then gem agility, however once you can reach 1050 ArP buffed/gemmed that will be more beneficial to your DPS. You would obviously not need one of the ArP trinkets anymore and many suggest Banner of victory and the improved greatness card are the best in slot once you can finally reach this setup. This setup also has the most theoretical DPS with BiS from CC getting close to 10k

    update for 3.2.2 ArP nerf

    New Hardcap = 1400 (1399.6 or so actually but for the sake of ease we'll call it 1400)

    So the new softcaps for Grim toll and Runestone are...

    Grim Toll = 788 soft cap
    Runestone = 736 soft cap

    The new value needed where straight ArP outwieghs softcap + agility SHOULD be 1190, assuming 85% is still the breaking point.

    Remember these are just general guidelines and a lot of it has to do with your general gearing set up, the best thing to do is reasearch and find out what setups best for you.


    Stat values post 3.1

    Some people, like myself, rather know what % of your DPS each stat is worth. Here is a table taken from http://elitistjerks.com

    3.1 values w/ bis gear


    Stat points Error dps value Error
    Armor Pen 30.3 +/- 0.1 1.80 +/- 0.01
    Agility 25.0 +/- 0.1 1.49 +/- 0.01
    Feral AP 12.0 +/- 0.1 0.71 +/- 0.01
    Strenght 23.8 +/- 0.1 1.41 +/- 0.01
    Crit 20.0 +/- 0.1 1.19 +/- 0.01
    Hit 22.8 +/- 0.1 1.35 +/- 0.01
    Expertise 22.8 +/- 0.1 1.35 +/- 0.01
    Haste 19.6 +/- 0.1 1.25 +/- 0.01
    AP 10.0 +/- 0.1 0.59 +/- 0.01

    This is a up to date 3.1 Table with BiS gear.

    Other important numbers to know

    Hit Cap - 8% or 263
    Expertise Cap - 6.5% or 132 rating w/ primal precision 214 without PP (26 expertise total)

    Cat DPS Priority Table

    This is a Priority system I derived from lots of testing and beating the target dummy a lot; most people over at EJ agree.


    1) If ooc proc use shred or rake if rake is down
    1) Keep SR up (with 1+ cp)
    2) Keep RIP up with 5 CP
    3) Use FB if the conditions are good: Hard to explain but if you think you can get enough points to put up rip and SR w/out expiring then go for it.
    4) Keep mangle up
    5) keep rake up
    6) Use shred to generate CP with energy micromanage to avoid rake/mangle downtime (basically use it if you will have enough energy to refresh rake/mangle when they expire or simply use shred if you have 3+ cp)
    7) If you are going to lose SR before you can reapply it -> use your CP to refresh SR (yes SR clipping is good)
    8) If you have 5 cp and you are going to waste energy waiting rip to expire (you have more than 95 energy) -> try to reapply rip, otherwise wait for rip to expire.

    This is the best way I could explain how I DPS. It looks confusing but once you get the hang of it it's not to difficult. Feral DPS; at least imo; is all about feel. Sometimes you might take a risk doing that FB and hoping you get a OOC proc or two to get you back on track. A lot of times it works out, sometimes it doesnt. You can still manage to always get your priorities back on track even if you make a mistake or two. The main thing is to never lose your cool. Always stay focused and most important: DONT DIE IN THE FIRE. Dead DPS is useless DPS.

    Glyph Choices

    Feral DPS have only a few Glyphs to choose from that actually increase their overall DPS

    Major's

    Glyph of Savage Roar - A must have for any fulltime kitty.
    Glyph of Shred - Also considered a must have
    Glyph of Rip - This one is completely dependent on how good you are at keeping up rip full time. It will make your rotation ALOT smoother.
    Glyph of Berserk - Usually used for PvP but is not a terrible PvE choice either in some cases.

    Minor's

    Glyph of Dash
    Glyph of Thorns
    Glyph of the Wild
    Glyph of Unburdened Rebirth
    Glyph of Challenging Roar (mixed spec mostly)


    Enchants

    Helm - Arcane of Torment - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44149
    Shoulder - Greater Inscription of the Axe (SoH exalted) - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44133
    Back - Major Agility - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60663
    Chest - 10 stats (Powerful Stats) - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60692
    Wrist - Greater Assault - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=44575
    Hands - 20 agility but a lot say 44 AP is better. It's a negligible difference tbh go with what you have mats wise. - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=44529
    Waist - Eternal Belt Buckel - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41611
    Legs - Icescale Leg Armor - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=38374
    Feet - Icewalker (12 hit and 12 crit); If hit capped 16 agility may be better for you. - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60623

    Weapon - Berserking is generally considered the best - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=59621 with Mongoose - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=27984 close behind or even BETTER depending on how well you are gear wise (I think once you get close to or over 10k AP raid buffed mongoose > Berserking)

    Massacre - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60691 Is a distant third but is alright i guess.



    Specs


    There are a few feral DPS specs around but generally this is the standard single target DPS spec - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZEMMcfrz0eR0huAkbAczb

    Most 25 man raids have a feral Tank or a Arms warrior so then - http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZEGMcfrz0eR0huVkbAczb - would be considered the main raiding spec (what I used to use back when we had a fulltime arms warrior)

    Of course depending on your raid you can change a few things around. If you have a fulltime druid tank OR a Arms warrior you could change 3/3 imp mangle into 3/3 Feral Instinct for the 30% increased Swipe damage. Or if you have another Feral you could take out 2/2 imp LotP and put it into something else. I usually take 3/5 out of the feral aggression and put it into 30% increased swipe for raids. Or if i'm with a arms warrior take the 3 out of imp mangle :P

    There's not a whole lot of lee-way on specs because every point is crucial to maximizing DPS.

    Raid Consumables

    Food

    If you have over 180 armor pen then Hearty Rhino is for you - http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=57436
    If you're still in the Agility range then Blackened Dragonfin is for you - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42999

    Flasks

    Flask of Endless Rage is your top used flask.

    If you wanted to use Elixirs i'd go with 45 Armor pen http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44330 or 45 Agility http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39666

    For guardian the only one that would increase your DPS (slightly at that) is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=20081

    Add-ons and Mods

    Personally I don't use many add-on's to help me with my rotation. The add-ons I use are as follows

    Mikscrollingbattletext - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...ttle-text.aspx
    Omen - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...eat-meter.aspx

    Those are really the only two I use besides Bag addon's and outfitter.

    Some other helpful Add-ons


    I've heard good things about both of these cat DPS add-on's to help people maximize their DPS.

    Facemauler - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...acemauler.aspx
    BadKitty - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a.../badkitty.aspx
    Feral-by-night - http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t49702-f...mulation_tool/ (Thanks to Rowen.)

    I don't use either of these so i'm not exactly sure how they work but I've heard good things from other members of the forums.


    Gear Choices

    Using WoW head you can actually get a list of the BiS Gear by using the stat values (mentioned above) and plugging them into the filtering process on WoWhead.


    WoW head gear rankings

    Thats Best in Slot obviously; updated for CC.

    Pre-Raid Gear for Feral DPS

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=55040.0

    Courtesy of Solux

    Thanks section
    EJ, myself Solux for the pre raid kitty gear guide and Rowen for the feral by night add-on

    I am hoping this thread can become a place where we could put more information into this post and I will give you credit here. Please keep everything constructive and keep the Off topic conversation to a minimum. Thank you.
    Last edited by Paskgotsheal; 2010-06-11 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Anyone know how to report for a sticky? I'm so bad at forums ha.

  3. #3

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    edit: saving this for later use.

  4. #4

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Nicely done.

    Sticky!
    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I don't do math, blind assumptions work so much better for me.

  5. #5

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    how does a 2p t8/8.5 fit into the equation, is the proc rate any good, is it worth it. does it "stack" with omen of clarity in a way that getting 1 negats the other? got my t 8 gloves the other day, wanted to no if gem/enchant for dps would be better then tanking for now....any info will help, thanks

  6. #6

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    If there are no arms warriors or bears in your group (only likely to happen in 10 mans), I find that Glyph of Mangle is more beneficial than having both Shred and Rip--Savage Roar of course stays.
    how does a 2p t8/8.5 fit into the equation, is the proc rate any good, is it worth it. does it "stack" with omen of clarity in a way that getting 1 negats the other? got my t 8 gloves the other day, wanted to no if gem/enchant for dps would be better then tanking for now....any info will help, thanks
    2pt8 is RIDICULOUS. I have literally gotten back-to-back-to-back-to-back clearcasts several times in a row to the point where people in vent have said my name to make sure I was still playing, what with 100 energy and all. Applying Rake seems to proc it as well, and there's no internal cooldown on it, so that 2% chance per bleed tic can go pretty far on a boss fight. It definitely stacks with Omen of Clarity in a good way.

  7. #7

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Personally I can't imagine raiding without fully improved swipe, unless I actually had 2 cat specs. Big aoe damage comes in handy in a lot of fights so I'd rather have +30% to my one aoe ability than +9% to the occasional bites.

  8. #8

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    what 2p t8 pieces u using, i use RAWR, and it says helm/gloves are better to use, helm bc ArP, and same with gloves...is this true?

    idk neba, im not really geared but i hit some pretty high Fbites, on XT especially, i think my high was like 25k on her

  9. #9

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Khraeme
    what 2p t8 pieces u using, i use RAWR, and it says helm/gloves are better to use, helm bc ArP, and same with gloves...is this true?

    idk neba, im not really geared but i hit some pretty high Fbites, on XT especially, i think my high was like 25k on her
    I'm using gloves/legs at the moment...gotta take what I can get.

    And Swipe would be better for destroying bots during XT than FB is for his heart.

  10. #10

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    ya true true...yes but i do have the 3/3 swipe talent, and the FB talent 2/5..so i got both, so i guess its a compramising spec

  11. #11

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamft
    If there are no arms warriors or bears in your group (only likely to happen in 10 mans), I find that Glyph of Mangle is more beneficial than having both Shred and Rip--Savage Roar of course stays.
    Even without a manglebot Mangle is still a inferior to shred and rip in terms of DPS. There's a thread on EJ about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neba
    Personally I can't imagine raiding without fully improved swipe, unless I actually had 2 cat specs. Big aoe damage comes in handy in a lot of fights so I'd rather have +30% to my one aoe ability than +9% to the occasional bites.
    Yeah I'm gonna fix that. It was a single target only DPS spec (obviously) without a mangle or trauma source. It's what I always use to DPS say, the Heroic target dummy.

    On the subject of T8 2 pc i think it's still being looked into although IMO it's phenomenal and whatever 2 peices you get you should take.

  12. #12

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Paskgotsheal
    Even without a manglebot Mangle is still a inferior to shred and rip in terms of DPS. There's a thread on EJ about it.
    That's all good and well on a target dummy, but when you've got to keep mobile/stand in front of/swap targets on a lot of Ulduar fights, you're not always going to get those three shreds off to increase Rip. But it's pretty nice to let those bleeds from yourself and the rogues stay buffed while you're moving/switching.

  13. #13

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamft
    That's all good and well on a target dummy, but when you've got to keep mobile/stand in front of/swap targets on a lot of Ulduar fights, you're not always going to get those three shreds off to increase Rip. But it's pretty nice to let those bleeds from yourself and the rogues stay buffed while you're moving/switching.
    -rogues bleeds aren't that important
    -if you can't get behind a target then you'll be spamming mangle anyway. in that case it doesn't matter how long the mangle debuff lasts.
    -if you're good you will always get 3 shreds off provided you have the rip glyph and the rip idol. if you're going the shred idol/arpen then you should still be able to get 3 off if you're paying attention.

    I'd rather have a rip on a boss without a mangle, than a mangle on a boss without a rip.

    Pask:
    You have some stuff on specs in both the Specs category and the Consumables category. Good guide though. I didn't know about that weight option for Wowhead. It's great but it doesn't work well with trinkets (procs don't fit that well into it).

  14. #14
    Fluffy Kitten Alski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Earthquake rubble
    Posts
    2,153

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by getefix
    It's great but it doesn't work well with trinkets (procs don't fit that well into it).
    chance on hit/use effects have an effective value of 0 when calculating the score on wowhead, so just use common sense for the trinkets. The rest of it is good tho.

  15. #15

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Not bad, I support Glyph of Mangle though for both PvE and and PvP.

    Recommendations:

    -Post "the" feral dps raid spec.

    -Mention the addon BadKitty and add a link to it's curse page.

    -Change rotation list to more of a priority list.


    Other than that it's a decent starter guide. Get it a little more cleaned up and post it on the WoW forums.

  16. #16

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by getefix
    -rogues bleeds aren't that important
    -if you can't get behind a target then you'll be spamming mangle anyway. in that case it doesn't matter how long the mangle debuff lasts.
    -if you're good you will always get 3 shreds off provided you have the rip glyph and the rip idol. if you're going the shred idol/arpen then you should still be able to get 3 off if you're paying attention.
    SCENARIOS!
    -You just got Rip on Hodir, but now you need to break out the adds. Uh-oh, not going to get those shreds up.
    -Landed a Rip on Mimiron p3, but melee needs help with bots.
    -Rip on XT and the raid needs to kill bots.
    -Rip during Iron Council and have to run out/interrupt/whatever.
    etc, etc.

    Mangle glyph will ALWAYS be useful, Shred glyph might not always get full mileage.

    Also: I'm assuming none of your rogues have 4pt8 if you think that Rupture isn't important.

  17. #17

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Way2Serious
    Not bad, I support Glyph of Mangle though for both PvE and and PvP.

    Recommendations:

    -Post "the" feral dps raid spec.

    -Mention the addon BadKitty and add a link to it's curse page.

    -Change rotation list to more of a priority list.


    Other than that it's a decent starter guide. Get it a little more cleaned up and post it on the WoW forums.
    Yeah i'll def do the first two the last is already done though. I never had it as a rotation it's a priority list and always will be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamft

    SCENARIOS!
    -You just got Rip on Hodir, but now you need to break out the adds. Uh-oh, not going to get those shreds up.
    -Landed a Rip on Mimiron p3, but melee needs help with bots.
    -Rip on XT and the raid needs to kill bots.
    -Rip during Iron Council and have to run out/interrupt/whatever.
    etc, etc.

    Mangle glyph will ALWAYS be useful, Shred glyph might not always get full mileage.

    Also: I'm assuming none of your rogues have 4pt8 if you think that Rupture isn't important.
    Those are all well and good but the same could be said about the counter part to that - that is that sometimes the raid might not need help on adds and you would get more DPS from the Shred Idol.

    Yes mangle is situational. No I don't use it on my DPS spec (mainly because when i played i always had a arms warrior or druid tank with me making it useless).


  18. #18

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    You may want to include the FeralByNight addon; very similar to facemauler, but more complete (and I get slightly better DPS results, at least at the dummy). Link to the elitist jerks thread where the addon is posted and discussed is: http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t49702-f...mulation_tool/
    "Holy bananas Ghostcrawler, ferals are doing well in pvp again!"

    "What!? To the nerfmobile!"

  19. #19

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    As requested: Kitty Pre-raid gear in here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=55040.0

    I figured it was better than spamming the list as a reply

  20. #20

    Re: Feral Druids - The Cat Guide. 3.1 Edition

    I have a few questions about gear and stats...
    Here's my armory.
    I'm not hit capped. No luck getting http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40186 for example. So i have to gem for hit to get only 190 and eat +hit food in raids.
    Last time i did 5,1k on Patchwerk25. I hit 3,6k on dummy. Is that good with my current gear? Should i gem for agi rather than hit?

    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45677 dropped for me a few days ago, but replacing my t7.5 shoulders causes 2p-bonus to vanish and keeping sr+rip gets pretty hard.

    So what way should i go? Thanks in advance.

    ps
    Sorry if my english is bad
    Feral dps :3
    Bring back ArP rating!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •