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  1. #1

    Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    I don't know if I'm the only one who has noticed this, but the difference for me between Holy and Disc mana regen is huge. Not the numbers, no, but the actual, in battle, amount of mana I have after five minutes is greatly different.

    Doing Iron Council, for instance. Two minutes into the fight as holy, I find myself throwing out my shadowfiend, another two minutes throwing out a Hymn of Hope, and about another two minutes later popping a potion, thirty seconds later, I'm still oom, and while replenishment continues to tick, I can't keep up with the mana lost.

    However, same fight, but as disc, I can go the entire fight without popping a single cooldown [Power Infusion goes to a caster dps in this case, not on myself], and still have over twenty-five percent of my mana pool left by the time the last guy goes down.

    I know that I'm doing two different roles between holy and disc, one being a raid healer, and one being a tank healer, but even when I'm disc I don't entirely concentrate on the tank [gotta pick up a bit of the slack when I can, y'know?] and I'm throwing out heals to anyone I find getting low, or not topped off when the tank isn't in danger of dying.

    Anyone else noticed this? Or is it just me?

  2. #2

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovianne
    I don't know if I'm the only one who has noticed this, but the difference for me between Holy and Disc mana regen is huge. Not the numbers, no, but the actual, in battle, amount of mana I have after five minutes is greatly different.

    Doing Iron Council, for instance. Two minutes into the fight as holy, I find myself throwing out my shadowfiend, another two minutes throwing out a Hymn of Hope, and about another two minutes later popping a potion, thirty seconds later, I'm still oom, and while replenishment continues to tick, I can't keep up with the mana lost.

    However, same fight, but as disc, I can go the entire fight without popping a single cooldown [Power Infusion goes to a caster dps in this case, not on myself], and still have over twenty-five percent of my mana pool left by the time the last guy goes down.

    I know that I'm doing two different roles between holy and disc, one being a raid healer, and one being a tank healer, but even when I'm disc I don't entirely concentrate on the tank [gotta pick up a bit of the slack when I can, y'know?] and I'm throwing out heals to anyone I find getting low, or not topped off when the tank isn't in danger of dying.

    Anyone else noticed this? Or is it just me?
    a few reasons why this is,

    1. Disc gets mana back when shields are absorbed.
    2. Disc mana cost on spells are greatly reduced imp flash heal+flash heal glyph
    3. Disc uses more mp5 than holy making them have more mana in combat, holy is more spirit based.
    5. /end of thread

  3. #3

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Perhaps you need a "dedicated" disc healer in your guild? The holy healers in my guild with my damage mitigation hardly ever go OOM with my respec to Disc. (I used to be holy and will no never go back.)

  4. #4

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Disc healers got a bigger mana pool, which lead to a better use of Rapture procs and Replenishment.

    I'm disc, tried Holy, but i love spamming, and Holy is NOT a spammer spec.

    If you go OOM with all your CDs blown, ask help from other healers on the raid, so you can have more time to gain some mana etc...

    Gearscore: A new way to see who fail at their class. 'Cause itemization is too hard... You need d/n-umbers.

  5. #5

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    I have raided as both Disc and Holy, personally I like Holy more.
    I never got mana problems in Ulduar.

    Since the patch, you need to focus more on Intellect as holy than spirit. Mp5 is better than spirit aswell.
    The more intellect you got the more you get from Replenishment.

    It's also harder to not overheal as holy which makes you waste more mana.

    The reason why you go oom is probably on of these: Wrong stats, overhealing and/or less backup from your other raid healers.

    I find it harder to raid as holy than Discipline after the spirit nerf, so I think it's just a matter of skill.

  6. #6

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    I got both Holy and Disc as specs for my priest

    I love holy for the power it has, casting prayer of healing thats about 400mana cheaper as in disc can be win also

    Surge of Light from holy, free flash heals, 695mana saved and skipping a cast
    (+Holy Concentration wich gives +50% mana reg from spi, needs a buff tho)

    Also the CoH no brain spell is nice, cast it and meh it picks out the lowest members so full potential of the mana used

    But I find it hard to heal with holy standalone when I don't got
    -Replenishment
    -Manaspring/BoW

    But I guess blizz made those mandatory now, bring the player not the class huh?

  7. #7

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    on our kill of iron council last night me as holy i used 2 fiends,hym of hope and a mana pot and was nearlly oom at the end (about 5% mana left).so for me perfectly balanced and i have no doubt i bought a lot more hps to the fight than a disc priest ever could.

    priests with worse gear might struggle to spam for the whole fight though as holy.

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    I still prefer Holy as regen.

    With a proper holy equip (I'm sitting at 26'000 mana and33% holycrit raidbuffed as Holy) your HC uptime is huge, having more than 70% of the fight a 1500 mana regen, plus the huge amount of SoL procs makes me love holy more.

  9. #9

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by xt
    on our kill of iron council last night me as holy i used 2 fiends,hym of hope and a mana pot and was nearlly oom at the end (about 5% mana left).so for me perfectly balanced and i have no doubt i bought a lot more hps to the fight than a disc priest ever could.

    priests with worse gear might struggle to spam for the whole fight though as holy.
    Disc priest will NEVER be on top of the HPS.

    If your disc priest shield people, you can count it as a 6k instant cast heal with no CD

    Gearscore: A new way to see who fail at their class. 'Cause itemization is too hard... You need d/n-umbers.

  10. #10

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Izenhart
    I still prefer Holy as regen.

    With a proper holy equip (I'm sitting at 26'000 mana and33% holycrit raidbuffed as Holy) your HC uptime is huge, having more than 70% of the fight a 1500 mana regen, plus the huge amount of SoL procs makes me love holy more.
    In my Disco spec, I have 22.4k mana w/o buffs. Fully raid buffed, I have 26.7k mana. How are you getting to 26K mana raid buffed sitting at 20K mana un-buffed in holy?
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...her&n=Izenhart

    Please share how your pulling this off, 'cause I would love 26K mana in holy w/o being completely decked out in Ulduar 25gear.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Wtb pandora's plea dropping instead of the fist weapon 4 weeks in a row.

    5069-5224-8275 Pokemon Friend Safari - Ice: Lapras / Snorunt / Sneasel

  12. #12

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Absolutíon
    Since the patch, you need to focus more on Intellect as holy than spirit. Mp5 is better than spirit aswell.
    The more intellect you got the more you get from Replenishment.
    While your third sentence is true for all mana users, for Holy, the first two are in everything I've ever read, flat out wrong. ATM even Disc values spirit over mp5, and in the future, I believe this will only increase because spirit scales with buffs, but Int is the clear winner as a regen stat for Disc. Between Spirit of Redemption and Spiritual Guidance, you would be a moron to stack Int over Spirit. ooF5R regen isn't what it used to be (ahh the days of 1700mp5 with Spirit World Glass....) but it is still part of the Holy playstyle, and stacking Int won't help that, and stacking mp5 won't help that.

  13. #13

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by jifjosh
    While your third sentence is true for all mana users, for Holy, the first two are in everything I've ever read, flat out wrong. ATM even Disc values spirit over mp5, and in the future, I believe this will only increase because spirit scales with buffs, but Int is the clear winner as a regen stat for Disc. Between Spirit of Redemption and Spiritual Guidance, you would be a moron to stack Int over Spirit. ooF5R regen isn't what it used to be (ahh the days of 1700mp5 with Spirit World Glass....) but it is still part of the Holy playstyle, and stacking Int won't help that, and stacking mp5 won't help that.
    LOL who said disc values spirit over mp5? Here's some stats rating quoted from EJ:

    Combined stats... Using a 60/40 split for throughput vs. longevity.

    * Intelligence - 0.65
    * Spirit - 0.22
    * Haste Rating - 0.59
    * Crit Ratng - 0.48
    * Spell Power - 1.0
    * Mp5 - 0.67

  14. #14

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by isisislol
    LOL who said disc values spirit over mp5? Here's some stats rating quoted from EJ:
    <snip>
    Don't trust numbers that you don't know where have been

    1 Spirit is worth 0.6 MP5 assuming that you have 1293 intellect.
    Meditation giives you half of that.
    BoKings adds 10%, taking it up to 0.33 MP5.

    1 MP5 is worth 0.4 Mp5 if you normalize for itemization cost.

    Conclusion is obvious
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  15. #15

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    1 MP5 is worth 0.4 Mp5 if you normalize for itemization cost.
    lolwut?
    check your math again

  16. #16

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Don't trust numbers that you don't know where have been

    1 Spirit is worth 0.6 MP5 assuming that you have 1293 intellect.
    Meditation giives you half of that.
    BoKings adds 10%, taking it up to 0.33 MP5.

    1 MP5 is worth 0.4 Mp5 if you normalize for itemization cost.

    Conclusion is obvious
    Lmfao, which asshole did your numbers sprout from then?

  17. #17

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Okay, I might have been a bit hasty with my wordings here. The point was - don't take 'random' weight numbers for good facts, eve if they come from Elitist Jerks. Chances are they might be outdated, and you really need to know what the weight numbers do before you can use them for much. But yes, MP5 is better than spirit for a discpriest.

    Which asshole my numbers came from - I tried to document that. Let me try again, with sources then.

    The forumula for spirit regen is (according to wowiki, modified by the 40% nerf in 3.1)

    Mana Regen = 0.6 * 5 * sqrt(Int) * Spirit * 0.005575
    If you simplify it a bit you can work it out so that 5 * sqrt(int) / 0.005575 = 1. This happens at 1293 int, and is when 1 spirit yields 1 MP5 (multiplied by the 40% nerf from 3.1). Basically, at 1293 int, the formula becomes pretty. So I usually work with that number. Disc priests should be close to this anyway.

    Mana Regen at 1293 int = 0.6 * Spirit
    1 spirit is as such giving you 0.6 MP5 OOFSR.
    This is increased by 6% by Enlightenment (forgot this one earlier, but let's be fair and add it) => 0.636
    Blessing of Kings will increase it by another 10%. => 0,7
    Meditation gives 50% of this as FSR regen. => 0.35

    1 spirit is as such worth 0.35 MP5 for a fully raid discpriest assuming 100% FSR time.
    If you get OOFSR time, the gains will increase, but... casting breaks is not that frequent as a discpriest.
    If you feel you get 50% OOFSR time, then by all means, spirit is an awesome stat.

    --

    1 MP5 is not worth 1 MP5. Because MP5 costs more itemization than a pure stat.
    If 1 spirit cost you 1 itemization point, 1 MP5 cost you 2.5 itemization points.
    The actual itemization scheme is pretty complex, you can read more on it here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Item_level

    Since you can get 2.5 spirit for the same "cost" as 1 MP5, you need to normalize the MP5 stat by 2.5 to do comparisons.
    As a result, 1 MP5 is worth 1/2.5=0.4 MP5.
    No modifiers will make that one better.

    --

    Good enough?


    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  18. #18

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    Or Spirit becomes more valuable the higher Int you have. ;D

  19. #19

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    That is correct. At 1683 intellect, spirit is equal to MP5 assuming 100% FSR time. Beyond that, MP5 is inferior.
    Note again, these are discipline numbers, assuming raidbuffs.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  20. #20

    Re: Holy mana regen vrs Disc mana regen

    so basically from ej standpoint their system is set up to say "if the item has <this much mp5> v <this much spirit> then you can roughly determine how good the item is." aka 1 mp5>1 spirit if the items actually have similar values of the two stats. in this case the item with mp5 wins out, but is most likely a higher ilvl

    what their system wont tell you is that one item is losing a lot of extra stats from having the mp5.

    this is if danner is correct.

    however, can you tell me why even if you multiply ej's .22x your 2.5, why its still less than mp5's .67

    I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't screw to save its species
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Sinders

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