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  1. #1

    Healing in Ulduar

    So I went to the ensidia website this week for the first time, I didn't really care before but since they are the best guild currently I got a bit curious what their view was on discipline priests.

    Apparently when it comes to min-maxing a raid for progression there is no place for a discipline priest, they bring holy priests and holy paladins. I can defenatly understand their view on it. Holy paladins are incredible tank healers with superb mana efficiency. Holy priests have a wide range of aoe spells to their disposal for healing up a raid quickly. I found it quite annoying though that discipline priests to them would only be brought on farm content.

    Is this also the case in tenman Ulduar, bring holypriests and holypaladins if you want to have best healing possible?

    I'm very much in love with discipline, but if ulduar progression for my guild will be better off if I was holy then I'd have no choice but respec.

    What do you guys think? discipline yes or no on progression?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    (IMHO)

    - permanent 3% less raid damage (which stacks with BoSanc)
    - Pain Suppression on tanks

    Those 2 alone would justifiy bringing a disc priest. On top of that they are awesome singletarget healers, and offer utility through PI and other stuff.
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  3. #3

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    we have a disc priest on progression, and we consider her invaluable. 3% mitigation plus massive preventative capability is not to be sneezed at.


    healing meters lie......

  4. #4

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    They do not need special MT Healing, so they take Priest for Raid heal witch is better with holy than discipline (of course).

  5. #5

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    I don't see disc being a viable raidspec except from a few chosen hardmode encounters in Ulduar atm.

    Crit is ok for a holy priest (ofc priceless for a Disc), but you get enough from your int and raidbuffs so I wouldn't socket for it.
    Quoted from the thread in question which can be found here

    and another quote

    We have paladins and shamans for tankhealing, since holy priests and druids rape them on raidhealing. Having a disc on tank would be a waste!
    and the argument goes on

  6. #6

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by Hermyt
    They do not need special MT Healing, so they take Priest for Raid heal witch is better with holy than discipline (of course).
    Also if you have a pally MT healer in the raid (10 man) what are you gonna do as disco? Your the only one with an aoe heal so looks like that's your job, but holy does that job better. Guess who is gonna respec? Yup you just became a holy priest. Also bringing two priests, your missing the buffs from another class. To max min you would want one of every buff so probably not having more than one type of class in a 10 man.

  7. #7

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    you don't need a holy priest if you have a couple of druids.... it basically depends on your group make up...

    don't set ensidia's group make up as your guideline... .. (they also might have dual specced holy-disc priests)

    disc priests are great and valuable to any raid.
    It's just a game.

  8. #8

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    Also if you have a pally MT healer in the raid (10 man) what are you gonna do as disco? Your the only one with an aoe heal so looks like that's your job, but holy does that job better. Guess who is gonna respec? Yup you just became a holy priest. Also bringing two priests, your missing the buffs from another class. To max min you would want one of every buff so probably not having more than one type of class in a 10 man.
    Theres two other healers, druids and shamans.

    Druid buffs: MotW which can be brought by feral/balance druids who usually spec improved MotW aswell.
    Innervate: can be done by ferals and balance aswell, feral mostly.

    On progression raids hots arent as strong as direct aoe heals that holy priests bring. a direct heal is there when you need it, hots tick for small amounts and arent there when you need it.

    Shaman: totems can be brought by elemental/enchancement shamans who usually have better totems.

    Chainheal is only good on melee because they are packed up, but it relies a lot on grp so on a spread out fight this becomes redundant, limiting them to singletarget heals, which are done better by holy paladins.

    dont get me wrong: I love druids and shamans more then paladins but on a progression raid holy priest/paladin are clearly better.

  9. #9

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    What do you guys think? discipline yes or no on progression?

    ... on a progression raid holy priest/paladin are clearly better.
    did you just answer your own question then?

  10. #10

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by nowimnothing30
    did you just answer your own question then?
    I also asked what you guys thought, and back it up.

  11. #11

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Holy priest speaking :P :

    So in our 10-man ulduar team we're usually : me + shammy + druid (sometimes instead of shammy , a holy pala but most times we got the shammy). Even if we don't have a "dedicated" imba-op single target (MT) healer we're just fine , never felt the need to bring a special spec.... What im trying to say is that if ur doing ur job well and healing is enough (ppl not dying with the slightest aoe dmg and stuff like that) then there is no need to change ur setup , if u feel like u have aoe healing probs then u might want to consider changing the healer setup first , bring a shammy / druid instead of ur other healer(s) , since a disc priest offers tons to a raid. IMO going holy would be my last option if i were u. (we usually have a spriest with disc offspec and we have the shammy go ele if we rly "need" a tank healer).

    On progression raids hots arent as strong as direct aoe heals that holy priests bring. a direct heal is there when you need it, hots tick for small amounts and arent there when you need it.
    i generally agree with that , but since our druid is insanely geared his hots are nearly as gd as my CoH (or so it feels) & having the MT hotted makes it rly easy to heal. The best healing setup i've raided with (on my mage) was druid , disc , pala or at least everytime i or some1 was dmged he was healed bk to 100% pretty much instantly.

    I myself was thinking of going disc but since i'm the only holy priest in the guild.......(we got 2 disc's) specially when on ignis25 we had like 4pallies 1 disc + druid and me and raid healing sucked hard. Holy has it's advantages too , but i prefer disc for 5-man , 10-man healing (not rly for 25-mans since they're heavy on aoe dmg )

  12. #12

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Dual spec and pick what the encounter needs

    I've even tried raid healing as disc on some encounters, but I don't really have the gear for it after the mana cost reduction nerf on Soul Warding.

    My spirit heavy gear from holy just isn't optimal as disco

  13. #13

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    I also asked what you guys thought, and back it up.
    honestly it seems silly to even ask. Your looking at what the "best guild" (they have the achievements but I don't know them personally so using quotes, honestly does having achievements first make you the best?) in wow is doing. You know the pros and cons of healing classes. You understand the role of a healer in Ulduar. Yet your dismissing all of that and asking completely random strangers who have no proof of how good they are or what they know of the class to give you their advise on what to do. You "asked" the right people before you posted, the "best guild" and yourself. You came up with an answer from good research. What else do you need? Do you really need some tard here to say "Disc is the l33t go wit dat u rulz healz! Holy 4 the suck3rz" to change your mind?

    Forgetting all of that what does your guild need? If your guild needs you to be a raid healer, you go Holy. If they need you to MT heal you go disco. You know this already. Why post it here to get some guy flexing his epeen that has not cleared a boss in Ulduar to put any doubt in your decision or stifle your guild needs because of some lame advise. Don't get me wrong I love disc, my priest is that when he can be, guild needs me to raid heal I do what best for the guild. They need to clear Ulduar and have raid healers I bring my pally and shelf the priest. /end thread

  14. #14

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    TBH, I love disc priests. Our MT healing set up in a 25 man is a disc priest and a holy paladin. My healers have more than once mentioned its nice to have the extra cooldowns and see the MTs health not drop as fast with all the mitigation buffs that the disc priest is providing. PI aint bad either (as it has already been said). What it really comes down to IMO is, if you have 2 good holy paladins that come to your 25 man raids, then no, there really isnt a place for a disc priest because when it comes down to it, they are tank healers plain and simple. But if you have a competent disc priest, in my opinion, they compliment a holy paladin really nicely. Plus if they are dual spec holy for some of the less tank intensive fights, thats just an extra bonus round(ie, we have our disc priest go holy for Freya and Hodir, whereas she stays disc for Mimiron and Vezax.)

    In b4 my grammar is terrible. I am sorry in advance =D.

  15. #15
    The Patient Keh's Avatar
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    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    - permanent 3% less raid damage (which stacks with BoSanc)
    - Pain Suppression on tanks

    Those 2 alone would justifiy bringing a disc priest. On top of that they are awesome singletarget healers, and offer utility through PI and other stuff.
    Wouldnt justify losing the higher HPS/Regen and stronger overrall raid healing IMO. Meters can, but generally dont lie if watched properly! Needing a disc priest on a MT is a sure sign of lack of knowledge or general l2p attitude from your Holy/Resto healers as much as it _may_ help in certain scenarios.

    Prenerfs clearing Uld 25 we hit a wall at Miri for a while due to phase 2 using 5 healers, 2 of which undergeared for the stage we were at. (I was a Holy Priest undergeared but strong l2p knowledge, and we had a casual resto Shaman in.) Swapped out the Sham for a Disc priest, still some trouble, he swapped into Holy, basically trippled his healing done and half'd his mana used and we did it first time as if it was farm content. Sure its not a strong example but one none the less.

    Seriously tho its just personal pref with the Raid I guess. Just because one guild does something doesnt mean it will work for another. Im sure like 80% of the people who hardcore raid has changed guild at some point and been like WTF when theyve used another guilds tactics/raid setups for fights. (ROGUE TANKING MOTHER/ILLIDAN WTF!? - Remember these days? :P)

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  16. #16

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by Keh
    Im sure like 80% of the people who hardcore raid has changed guild at some point and been like WTF when theyve used another guilds tactics/raid setups for fights. (ROGUE TANKING MOTHER/ILLIDAN WTF!? - Remember these days? :P)
    qft. Watching our rogue tank Gruul was prolly one of the most amusing things Ive seen.

    On topic what it all boils down to is preference and what raiders you have available. I play on Blackwing Lair and finding a holy paladin who doesnt suffer from a severe case of down syndrome that can make our raid times has been pretty hard, so we have a disc priest pick up the slack and its worked like a charm. Every guild has their own ideas/makeups and if you are downing bosses then you are downing bosses.

  17. #17

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    from some wws reports from a hardmode kill from ensidia, they had 2 discpriests and 1 holy priest for the fight.

    So im pretty sure depending on the boss, they switch back and forth to the right spec. offcourse their mainspec is holy if u check their char. But u have to check the wws report to see in which spec they healed. So u could be quite suprised

  18. #18

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by iebe
    Is this also the case in tenman Ulduar
    Just have to point out that you're asking about min/maxing an extremely easy 10m.

    To answer your question...no you don't have to only take holy priest/pally for 10m Ulduar.

    Keep in mind that Ulduar difficulty was designed very intentionally (unlike Naxx and OS etc) to be very easy on 10m and exponentially more difficult in 25m. Blizz has said this over and over because they know they messed up with Naxx et al regarding difficulty level between the 2 raid sizes.



  19. #19

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlybonne
    from some wws reports from a hardmode kill from ensidia, they had 2 discpriests and 1 holy priest for the fight.
    Where'd you find these? I'd really like to see them.

  20. #20

    Re: Healing in Ulduar

    Quote Originally Posted by Keh
    Wouldnt justify losing the higher HPS/Regen and stronger overrall raid healing IMO. Meters can, but generally dont lie if watched properly! Needing a disc priest on a MT is a sure sign of lack of knowledge or general l2p attitude from your Holy/Resto healers as much as it _may_ help in certain scenarios.
    There's an old proverb about how people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. You should take a cue from that before playing the L2P card.

    First, on regen... Holy and disc are very strong on regen when geared and played properly. The strength of disc over holy is that (even after the spirit nerf) disc can spam spells nearly endlessly without the concern over going OOM. Holy does not have this luxury. Imo, Disc has always had stronger regen.

    Second on HPS and meters... "Meters can, but generally dont lie if watched properly!" Well, meters never lie. Facts are facts. Watching them properly though means understanding what they are and are not measuring. There is no accurate way for the combat logs to be parsed to show the mitigation done by a disc priest. If you view HPS as strictly health restored, and do not include damage absorbed, you are ignoring that which fundamentally defines the value that discipline brings to the raid.

    Third, on the concept that needing a disc priest on MT healing being representative of failure on the part of other healers to do their jobs, open your eyes to the fact that was introduced in 3.0, and immensely strengthened in 3.1. Disc priests increase the average maximum health of their healing target. It is easier to heal a tank whose average health is floating around 48-50k than one who's peak is consistently 43k.

    Disc is fine in progression content. And while not ideal, is perfectly capable of solid party heals (achieved server first 10-man clear / YS kill w/ 2 healers - disc priest and holy paladin (yes, two primarily single target healers), & have 2 keepers down in hard mode so far as well. Life is easier w/ a solid party healer, and yes, Holy priests are far better. So are Resto shaman and Resto druids. But do not for a minute discount the value a Disc priest brings to any raid.
    Bigslick (6/14H)
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