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  1. #41

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I have few ulduar bosses kill screenshots showing recount dps. Do you want me to upload them? It's gonna take a while, I don't have good upload speed (they are 25MB in total).
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  2. #42

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I would prefer a WWS as I can see that you actually cast Typhoon and in what quantity. A screenshot just tells me you did X DPS. I can take your word for it. Or I can take some of the communities strongest voices with all the data, spreadsheets, WWS reports, and content progression to prove it. That's where I lye right now.

  3. #43

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I don't have wws reports. I use OmniCC and the cooldown on typhoon is shown in some screenshots. Do you want me to upload them or not? I want to sleep. Can you show me some wws reports who are actually doing high dps in the new bosses? (3.X+)
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  4. #44

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    <a href="http://wowwebstats.com/jkm6rnbfsomf1...5427">Here</a> is a decent Kologarn kill by me. I got slightly unlucky on the eye beams. Look, I'm not trying to hound you, I just would like to see what your seeing. SS' of your OmniCC'd Typhoon and your DPS is not what I'm looking for. I'm not going to repeat myself, but it's your word v. people like Wisprunner.

  5. #45

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiritus
    <a href="http://wowwebstats.com/jkm6rnbfsomf1...5427">Here</a> is a decent Kologarn kill by me. I got slightly unlucky on the eye beams. Look, I'm not trying to hound you, I just would like to see what your seeing. SS' of your OmniCC'd Typhoon and your DPS is not what I'm looking for. I'm not going to repeat myself, but it's your word v. people like Wisprunner.
    I could only find your dps in kologarn fight, which hurricane has done 24% of your damage. Can you please give me a link to another battle?
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  6. #46

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Not currently no. My meters for the last two weeks we raided and WWS'd it were not something I could reply and feel confident about. I've changed my spec since then and this week I was only around for FL and Kologarn. I have a raid tonight and I will supply you with more.

    EDIT: and actually the point of the WWS was exactly how you used it. I'd like to see how Typhoon fares in your numbers. Hurricane being 24% of my damage is fine. I keep track of the Rubble. It is also behind my Wrath and Starfire. What I'm expecting to see in yours is that Typhoon = <10% of your damage, or, your DPS is too low from using it too often. SS an advanced Recount screen next time you kill a boss.

    2nd EDIT: <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...No=1">Here</a> is a post about Typhoon on the WoW forums (5th post down). <a href="http://themoonkinrepository.com/view...=867">Here</a> is a post by Wisprunner on his Boomkin sticky thread. Check it out. Shows the exact spec linked by the OP in there.

  7. #47

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Thank you, I'll do the same and try to get wws reports. This will happen after 3rd of June though, when my exams are over, I'll try not to forget it. I've also sent you a PM about wws client, please check it.

    I've also looked at your secondary spec and it is pretty similar to mine. I don't see why you disagree with me. I'm really off to bed now, I got damn exams tomorrow morning. Gn.
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  8. #48

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    No problem, Ill get back to your PM about the WWS. My second spec was an experimental spec for AoE dual spec. I'm about to drop it for Resto or Feral Tank in the oncoming weeks. It was something I was only going to use for certain boss fights or trash mobs. Typhoon and Gale Winds included it didn't help as much as I had thought.

  9. #49

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Typhoon is absolutely worthless to use in your single target rotation. Its ok to have a dual spec with it and gale winds for aoe fights. However the points spent in typhoon, gale winds, and mana regen to support it will cost you a lot on single target fights.

    Most raids that I've been a part of don't depend on moonkins for AoE. In part because other classes do it better and in part because breaking our eclipse cycle to aoe adds can kill our dps.

    If your raid uses you to AoE thats cool but its not the best use of a moonkin and its not the best AoE.

  10. #50

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    My raid comp. blows. Our DK's don't mess with the rubble for obvious reasons but we have 1 Spriest, and 0 consistently raiding mages. I was being put on AoE more out of desperation then sheer utility.

  11. #51

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Good morning all. I'll continue explaining why I don't like this spec.

    Moonglow - It worths the points
    Intensity - Also worths the points

    Imp IS - I don't understand how 3 points worth 3% dmg and 3% crit especially if you are using wrath more than starfire.
    Imp FF - Waste of points too.

    Typhoon - Must have for both pvp and pve IMO
    Typhoon can work as an instant cast in single target dps. It can boost your dps by a lot in aoe bosses and slow down mobs (useful in XT).
    Gale Winds - Must have IF you are using typhoon.

    Also, you guys have talked about single target dps in 2 posts which doesn't even exists. Most Ulduar bosses require AoE.

    Flame Levithian: No spells used
    Ignis: Single target dps
    Razorscale: Mixed single target/aoe fight
    XT: Aoe fight if you are assigned to adds
    Iron Council: Single target dps
    Kologarn: Half aoe fight. (adds, right hand, body)
    Auriya: Mixed single target/Aoe fight
    Freya: Mixed single target/aoe fight
    Thorim: Mixed single target/aoe fight

    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    I haven't been to other bosses because of exams.
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  12. #52

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I'll only comment on the talents you listed (short on time atm):

    Moonglow - It's worth the points on two conditions: High haste, and you generally have manaproblems. (Un)fortunately the latter should always be false.
    Intensity - The best manareg after OoC, thus okay as reg. But as mentioned before: There should be no need to spec into it at all in raids!

    Imp IS - 1% DPS increase is what Blizzard approximately budgets for 1 TP. Some talents deliver more, some less. This is one of the best options left if you took all >1%/TP talents already, and usually fits in well.
    Imp FF - One of the most usefull talents since it got bumped to 5min duration. Without having to recast it every 40s, it already it worth it for the crit alone, let alone the options for stats to take instead of 3% hit on gear. It just is one of our best talents out there! (It was very lackluster before the 5min change, but now it just is great.)

    Typhoon - Most useless talent ever. Drains mana, unglyphed it's more of an annoyance than anything else, does too few damage. It hase some use in PvP, but for raids this point is a major waste. The really only time I could imagine this being helpfull is, if you are in a veeeery AE lacking group, which tends to be veeeeery rare even in 10-mans.
    Gale Winds - No Typhoon, no GW. The bump for Hurricane is okayish, but again these points would only be justifyed when being with the same AE lacking group mentioned right above.

    Even the AE-heaviest fights in Ulduar do not justify the cutbacks you have to take if going for an AE-build on single target dps. You need AE, true, but I have yet to encounter a fight where optimizing it was crucial. It's merely a convenience factor, nothing more.

  13. #53

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by miLl3niUm
    Moonglow - It worths the points
    Intensity - Also worths the points
    *sigh* this is what I was trying to tell you to hold your horses about. The spec linked provides 3 wiggle points. Those are used to fill in mana regen talents as needed.

    Imp IS - I don't understand how 3 points worth 3% dmg and 3% crit especially if you are using wrath more than starfire.
    Imp FF - Waste of points too.
    Complete ignorance on your part. Imp FF provides 3% crit ~ 126 crit rating. The hit is a side bonus. Boomkins go for this talent strictly for the crit. It is a LOT. As far as IIS, that is a debateable point. I personally have points to put in it. 3% crit on your starfire is great for trying to proc solar eclipse (and helpful [however less so] during Lunar Eclipse). The 3% Wrath damage is minor at best.

    Typhoon - Must have for both pvp and pve IMO
    Typhoon can work as an instant cast in single target dps. It can boost your dps by a lot in aoe bosses and slow down mobs (useful in XT).
    Gale Winds - Must have IF you are using typhoon.
    I keep saying it, keep quoting it, keep sourcing it. Read Read Read. There is so few situations where typhoon is actually of major use. I'm not even going to debate it any further. Just read what I put in my posts and it should clear up some things.

    So, lesson learned: Ask questions before you tell the OP that his linked spec for a "Basic Moonkin Guide" is completely wrong.

  14. #54

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I don't see the word basic somewhere in the post. Also I wont change my mind about what I said, so I don't have anything to ask. That was my opinion and I said it. You asked me to state my opinion and I did. I don't see why you debate this.
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  15. #55

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Because the whole thread is about giving advice to people. If you have different opinions (which can be fully valid), then you should state why clearly and with arguments so that people can make a decision between which advice they prefer. If you are posting to say "i do this way and i don't care about anything you tell me", then there's no communication and thus no point in your post.

    As for your points :
    - mana regens are optional talents, it's up to each individual to decide wether they need them or not. Especially since it depends more on raid composition than on gear. Saying a spec is shitty because of having/missing such talents without taking this into account is stupid.
    - Typhoon, Starfall and Gale Winds vs mana talents or single target talents (iIS, OF, Brambles, ...) is a pure question of choice. None of those are really good enough to justify being taken by itself. If you prefer to help on AoE, fine. If you prefer to get a few % more single target dps, fine too. Once again it also highly depends on what fights/challenges you are having, playstyle, raid composition and whatever. Calling a spec bad because of that is also just stupid.

  16. #56

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Granted, I glanced over the 4 pages, but my question is twofold...

    1) Is there a consensus now on which eclipse is better dps? and yes some of it is gear based, which I understand. In Naxx I ran with 600+ haste and used wrath to proc starfire eclipse's. Now that there is a 30% bonus, do you drop to around 400 haste and and use starfire to proc wrath?

    2) Is there a consensus on whether or not to go with a 2pt7/2pt8, or go with 4pt8? And will the change when they drop it to an 8% proc rate reduce it's viability.

  17. #57

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    1) depends on what you mean by "now"; but, assuming you mean Ulduar. Wisprunner and Xiera from www.themoonkinrepository.com have crunched numbers to bring up a valid point that most Lunar Eclipse BiS lists host only 450ish haste. Thus, a Solar rotation would almost be best standing still AND moving. This is not to demean Lunar, but more or less to prove Solar's viability in more then just movement fights. On the gear: yes, it will always have to be a 400ish haste set with high crit in order to avoid GCD clipping.

    2) The T8 was proved as a DPS increase pre-proc-nerf. I have not seen the numbers as of yet. I do know that the DPS increase was like 250-365 (a lot to those that don't watch DPS stats often) at 15% with no ICD. Ill edit this thread when I find out more. I would think it's still safe to say it is worth getting 4-piece T8 though. It is recommended to toss your chest piece or helm for the 4-piece.

  18. #58
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by anyaka21
    2) Is there a consensus on whether or not to go with a 2pt7/2pt8, or go with 4pt8? And will the change when they drop it to an 8% proc rate reduce it's viability.
    I had almost the same dps with 4pt7 and 2pt7/2pt8, so you can switch to 2pt8 without waiting for 4p. Got 4p last week and even bugged that was very worth it (left the chest piece), I just changed a bit my rotation to include more wrathes under eclipse CD but that won't be necessary anymore after today's patch.
    Oh, hi.

  19. #59

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Generally solid. I approve of the base spec with one exception:

    *You can generally drop a point out of Nature's Reach if you'd like. The only fights where threat/range might be problematic should be General V and Hard Mode Hodir.

    Quote Originally Posted by miLl3niUm
    Flame Levithian: No spells used
    Ignis: Single target dps
    Razorscale: Mixed single target/aoe fight
    XT: Aoe fight if you are assigned to adds
    Iron Council: Single target dps
    Kologarn: Half aoe fight. (adds, right hand, body)
    Auriya: Mixed single target/Aoe fight
    Freya: Mixed single target/aoe fight
    Thorim: Mixed single target/aoe fight
    *Of these fights, Freya and Thorim are primarily about control rather than AoE DPS. On hard mode, XT is virtually zero AoE. Kologarn and Razorscale (and Thorim too) are primarily single target fights with some adds. I'm not saying AoE isn't meaningful encounters I'm suggesting that a "single target DPS is a myth" attitude is pretty dumb.

    Mimiron: Has adds, but you still single target them if you're on them at all as ranged.
    Gen V: Exclusively single target.
    Yogg: a fair amount of add killing, but it's mostly single target (you certainly won't be casting Hurricane).

    *Still, Typhoon is useful as an extra instant to cast when you have to move provided you have the mana for it, or when AOE is important and it will hit 3 or more targets.

    *Some posts have suggested Starfall is largely optional, but vs the other options (AoE talents, Brambles, Owlkin Frenzy, Genesis, an absurd amount of mana regen) I think it's hard to make a smart spec that doesn't take it. Starfall also provides a virtually guaranteed NG throughout its duration.

  20. #60

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Just a quick post, please excuse me if it has been covered.

    While typhoon is indeed very handy, please keep in mind that it is highly situational. for several reasons:

    1. You don't want to knock mobs out of everyone elses aoe
    2. If you want to stun, some trash mobs and boss aoe mobs are immune
    3. If you want to hit mobs in one direction (away from something), it is almost always better to just dps the targets to avoid the loss of dps while moving. sometimes this is fine (Gluth) sometimes you'd have to run for it (XT)

    Having said that, I love typhoon over starfall for pve and pvp. for two reasons:

    1. If you have IS and MF on the boss and your 5 min ImpFF doesn't need a refresh, this is a great way to instant cast for some dmg on a boss
    2. Knocks anything out of stealth (eat it rogues) and functions as the only way a moonkin can stop a cast spell without making the target dmg immune and removing all dots (cyclone).

    Also note that starfall scaling is HORRIBLE. It will effectively get worse and worse as you get gear and raid compared to everything else in the game.

    PS - I don't spec for gale winds, thats a waste. Typhoon a good filler ability and should not be used in a real rotation

    Here is my armory link - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...gn=Coma+Divine

    I used 3/3 intensity for 10 man runs due to 25 man attendance issues. otherwise i run with 2/3 intensity and 3/3 impIS. i've been debating where to take that one point from, but with moonkin RNG there is still more to crit/eclipse RNG for dmg than I can guesstimate for 1% SF crit and 1% wrath dmg.


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