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  1. #1021
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Why are you using Purified Lunar Dust and a PvP cloak? Surely you can find another trinket than that.. Reign, Eye of the Broodmother, Illustration and so on. All viable trinkets, rather easy to farm, might be difficult to reach but shouldn't be too terrible.

    As for your cloak, the emblem cloak is much more to be preferred over that PvP cloak. Trade 60 haste and 9 spell power for 52 crit, 60 spi (~20 spell power), 23 int (~3 spell power) and a socket, just by getting Volde's Cloak of the Night Sky.
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  2. #1022

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    Why are you using Purified Lunar Dust and a PvP cloak? Surely you can find another trinket than that.. Reign, Eye of the Broodmother, Illustration and so on. All viable trinkets, rather easy to farm, might be difficult to reach but shouldn't be too terrible.

    As for your cloak, the emblem cloak is much more to be preferred over that PvP cloak. Trade 60 haste and 9 spell power for 52 crit, 60 spi (~20 spell power), 23 int (~3 spell power) and a socket, just by getting Volde's Cloak of the Night Sky.
    Trinket:
    Guild had a hard time filling the resto spots, so i was asked to heal from time to time. That's what made me get the resto trinket in the first place.
    If you can believe it, i've never ever seen the IotDS drop in any raid i was in, and only saw Reign 2-3 times, never won it.

    As for Eye: it comes to 87 crit over 54 SP, and Wrathcalcs favors the resto trinket with a 7 DPS difference . Also considering that every time I've seen it drop someone else actually needed it, I preffered to stick with PLD.

    Cloak:
    By the time I had enough EoT to buy it (other items had prio, including some resto tier) I gathered enough dkp to get the crit+haste cloak from Valithria 25. So I'm just waiting for it to drop, and keep buying resto tier gear.

  3. #1023
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I switched my specc to http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...z,SUefOH,11723 and this should give me more dps if I am correct. Now do anyone have something to complain on, something that could improve my dps even further speccwise.

    Thanks for replies

  4. #1024

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamara
    I switched my specc to http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...z,SUefOH,11723 and this should give me more dps if I am correct. Now do anyone have something to complain on, something that could improve my dps even further speccwise.

    Thanks for replies
    Drop 4 points from genesis and get: 2x Nature's Reach, 1x Nature's Splendor, 1x Omen of Clarity (from resto)

    Also, depending on how much hit you got, drop Owlkin frenzy and invest in Balance of power (doubt you're hit capped with 0 points in BoP)

    Combination of glyphs is funky aswell. But i'd rather not comment as some people support this combination. My moonkin works better with Starfall/Starfire/Moonfire

  5. #1025
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightclick
    Drop 4 points from genesis and get: 2x Nature's Reach, 1x Nature's Splendor, 1x Omen of Clarity (from resto)

    Also, depending on how much hit you got, drop Owlkin frenzy and invest in Balance of power (doubt you're hit capped with 0 points in BoP)

    Combination of glyphs is funky aswell. But i'd rather not comment as some people support this combination. My moonkin works better with Starfall/Starfire/Moonfire
    I can defend some of my choices made, first of all I am hit capped even without imp ff on target I am even a bit overcapped sjekk my char (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ream&cn=Jamara).

    Natures reach only increases the range of my spells so I don't see that help that much (tho I don't know if it is good for any spesific fights), omen of clarity i don't think help that much... ok its a free spell, but nothing else except the set bonus you get, but I don't have that bonus and nature's splendor can't help that much? isen't 1% more dmg worth more in the lenght of the fight, if you refresh you have a 90-100% dot uptime in the end that 1% would be worth more than 1 more tick as you will get it of as you have a full uptime anyways

  6. #1026
    Dreadlord Garnik's Avatar
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    There is so much going on here, so many things to comment on, i can barely comprehend...

    OoC: I would still use it even if i didn't have the 2 piece. The proc is decent, and i can imagin its very good at lower gear levels, where you mana pool is alot smaller, and alot less crit.
    BoP: Even if i had the Hit to remove it completely, i wouldn't. The 6% less Spell Damage taken is very good in any raid.
    Nature's Reach: 30% less threat... i know i get very close to overaggro alot, even with it, i can't imagine how it would be without it...
    Nature's Splendor: I'm gonna let other people do the math, i will just get it wrong...

    There is also several things with you gear 'n gems
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  7. #1027
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    The gems i know, too many crit gems, but i will not replace them until i got 245 in that slot (waiting to replace those pieces)
    but please give me some pointers on my gear aswell

  8. #1028

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    The 1% you mention from Genesis applies only to DoTs, not every spell.

    OoC: you should try to get the tier bonus, and it gets you rid of all the mana problems (should you have any). Indeed, if you really want, you can not take it untill you get the tier bonus.

    Nature's splendor: point per point it's more DPS than Genesis. Can't back it up with math atm, only my Wrathcalc feedback. For me, Splendor is 100 DPS increase, each point of genesis gives 4 DPS.

    Nature's Reach: threat reduction is good but I understand you might not feel the need for it if you never pulled aggro from your tank. The range however is very usefull. You have to move a lot in ICC fights and as the Tuskar feet enchant makes you run faster so you can resume nuking the boss, this talent makes you not have to always run that much. On Saurfang, which is a stand and nuke fight, you want the range to have more space while dpsing the blood beasts.

    You got way too much hit on gear, and you mentioned you're over cap without IFF. Drop IFF and put points in the talents above. Once you start getting rid of hit, start putting points in IFF to maintain the cap.

    On gems: the good thing is that you have the correct meta. All other gems you should have on you are: SP, SP+crit, SP+haste, SP+spirit. No nightmare tear, no pure crit or haste gems, and only go for the socket bonus if it's SP.

  9. #1029
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    i got iff for the 3% more crit thats why, i will not regem my current gear as some of it is 232 ilvl, tuskarr feet enchant i can change to, but doesn't crit do more (i don't know how much 12 crit rating is tho) and i rarely overaggro my tank as he is good geared and manage to keep the threat quite good

  10. #1030
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamara
    I can defend some of my choices made, first of all I am hit capped even without imp ff on target I am even a bit overcapped sjekk my char (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ream&cn=Jamara).

    Natures reach only increases the range of my spells so I don't see that help that much (tho I don't know if it is good for any spesific fights), omen of clarity i don't think help that much... ok its a free spell, but nothing else except the set bonus you get, but I don't have that bonus and nature's splendor can't help that much? isen't 1% more dmg worth more in the lenght of the fight, if you refresh you have a 90-100% dot uptime in the end that 1% would be worth more than 1 more tick as you will get it of as you have a full uptime anyways
    Sure, you can take points out of balance of power. Or you could reduce your hit and gain stats elsewhere. 4% hit for two talent points is a MAJOR tradeoff, and you could get rid of your hit and get a handfull of crit and haste instead. This would be much preferable to what other choices you have:

    Genesis gives you about 0,2% DPS increase per point, so those five point spent is giving you a whooping 1% damage increase. Thats "total DPS increase". Your dots are only 5-15% of your total damage, so 1% more of 15% of your damage is a very weak damage increase.

    But you don't even have Nature's Splendor, so your Genesis is even weaker than that. Nature's Spendor is an awesome talent, which means you have to refresh dots less, and you can be sure it will be up for longer during eclipse. Nature's Reach is a must have talent; The more range you have, the more mobility you are offered. Not only that, but moonkins have NO threat reduction at all, except for the 30% from that talent. If you any bit serious about your moonkin, you need this talent.

    Owlkin Frenzy is fine as a filler talent, but its terrible for anything else. In a raid, its ~0,5% DPS increase per point, which is poor, but better than genesis. Lastly, you don't have Omen of Clarity. You may not have mana problems, and your armory doesn't show your balance gear, but eventually you will pick up 2pt10, where you will definately want OoC.

    All in all, you are missing important, core talents, and instead taking weak increases. You are making it very difficult for yourself, and you would do yourself a favor by speccing correctly, dropping some hit, and get yourself sorted.

    While you are at it, you need to fix your glyphs as well. IS/Starfall/Focus is not a very strong setup. Focus limits you even more alongside with your lack of Nature's Reach, and Glyph of IS is not really a glyph anyone should consider. Starfire/Starfall/Moonfire will yield your the biggest DPS increase.

    All in all, it is a terrible setup.

    EDIT: I just looked you up on WoW-heroes, where I found a cached version of your moonkin gear. So lets go through that as well:

    Dont ever, ever, ever, ever, ever gem pure crit gems. Use ametrines; SP/haste if you are below the soft haste cap, SP/crit if you are below the soft crit cap (and you are), and then SP/haste gems again for yellow sockets. Your Nightmare Tear in your pants is terrible. It hardly adds any benefit to you; About 3 spell power is all you gain - you should be using SP/spirit gems in two blue slots, never a Tear.

    You are also using Talisman of Resurgance, which is a very poor trinket. Sundial of the Exiled would be a bigger increase. Oh, and look, Maghia's Misguided Quill with 152 hit rating on it. I wonder what would happen with your hit if you were to switch to that - well, it would be at a bit more managable 318 hit rating, with more room to throw out some of that useless hit gear, and get your talents set straight.
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  11. #1031
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    First I need to ask on what server you play, cus obviouly gs don't excist there, on emerald dream it seems like gs is all, so i use those trinkets to get it higher or i will not get into raids and stuff.

    And Rightclick said "Combination of glyphs is funky aswell. But i'd rather not comment as some people support this combination." I was recommended this and that the IS glyph was a MUST for balance druids.

    And how can Nature's reach be a must when the range i got now usually works fine for me in raids and the tanks don't have problems with my aggro?

    Owlkin frenzy I think is a quite good talent, since in icc you usually get taken by some aoe dmg which almost give it a promised proc chance.

    I'll probably respecc back into ooc as i currently got 1 piece of the 251 set.

    But genesis must be better than moonglow, as said in this thread before, moonglow is one of the worst mana efficient talents.

  12. #1032

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    For GS stuff: keep your higher ilvl trinkets, but swap to what Qieth suggested at the beginning of the fight. The higher score will get you in a pug, but the better trinkets will do more dps
    I have seen people use your combo of glyphs, but it does not work well, for me anyway. I didn't want to bang my hand on the table, but the elitist jerks theorycrafters also suport Starfall/SF/MF
    You don't have aggro problems now, but by increasing your dps through the suggested changes you'll deffinetly start getting more threat then usual. You'll also always want to be at max range on standing bosses, and you'll have to move a lot on moving bosses, movement that can be reduced by this talent.
    There are fewer boss spells that trigger OF than you might think. Trying to find a list to put here.
    Indeed if you don't need the mana, get genesis instead of moonglow, but only 1 point to advance to the next tier.

  13. #1033

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    You don't need to worry about GS when you're raiding with your guild or raid alliance. They judge you by your performance, not item levels.
    If you need to push your GS, just buy two 245 trinkets and switch them out after invite.

    I also strongly suggest Starfall/SF/MF. I have more than once seen Moonkins with Focus who didn't use Starfall on Saurfang because they have to stand out of range, or who insist on being positioned on the front end of the circle on BQL (where we usually position our healers). Also, Starfall/SF/MF gives more dps except for trash and Dreamwalker.
    Everything else was explained in detail by Qieth.

  14. #1034
    Dreadlord Garnik's Avatar
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    I have been playing a little around with the new Cata Balance Tree, and got this build out of it...
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...BY,,1192711927
    It caps at 80, so there would still be additional 5 points to spend somewhere, which i probaly would spend in Celestial Focus and/or Nature's Focus.

    One of the most exiting new thing here, is Starsurge, imo.
    Starsurge
    11% of base mana 30 yard
    2 sec cast 15 sec cooldown
    You fuse the power of the moon and sun, launching a devastating blast of energy at the target. Causes 1025 - 1027 Spellstorm damage to the target and knocking them down.

    and works in conjuction with...
    Lunar Guidance
    Increases the radius of your Solar Beam by 6 yards, and your Starsurge instantly generates 15 Lunar or Solar energy, depending on which is greater.

    So it will probaly be an important spell in our rotation. Much like the Detro Warlocks Conflagrate.

    edit:
    also, there is alot of PvP related changes, but i'm not very in to Moonkins in PvP, so i wont touch that
    Then he fapped to his own pseudo-intellectualism and no one ever loved him. Ever.

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  15. #1035

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    About the best thing at the moment is that i feel that i have more points than i need... which leaves me to do optional choises...

    One thing thou, as we lost our managain from moonkinform we might need to spec more to mana regen. Lets see how many "free" points we have then.

    Khad
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  16. #1036
    Dreadlord Garnik's Avatar
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Seems wierd, the only thing Moonkin Form does is to provide 370% armor. Rather boring...

    I hope they make some more out of Moonkin Form.
    Then he fapped to his own pseudo-intellectualism and no one ever loved him. Ever.

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  17. #1037

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Garnik
    Seems wierd, the only thing Moonkin Form does is to provide 370% armor. Rather boring...

    I hope they make some more out of Moonkin Form.
    Well, the crit aura still requires you to be in the form, as does Owlkin Frenzy. Even though they don't require Moonkin Form to learn in that build...
    Really, the effective loss so far is the old Imp. Moonkin (Haste Aura and sp from spirit) and the mana on spellcrits. But yes, the base talent sounds pretty lackluster at the moment.

  18. #1038

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    there are still way to many direct damage increases, which Blizz said they're trying to get rid of as much as possible, and there's nothing mentioned on Mastery in there.
    Also, some of the talent dependancies are missing.

    It's deffinetly a long way from being finished, so all we can do is just observe how it evolves.


  19. #1039
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamara
    First I need to ask on what server you play, cus obviouly gs don't excist there, on emerald dream it seems like gs is all, so i use those trinkets to get it higher or i will not get into raids and stuff.

    And Rightclick said "Combination of glyphs is funky aswell. But i'd rather not comment as some people support this combination." I was recommended this and that the IS glyph was a MUST for balance druids.

    And how can Nature's reach be a must when the range i got now usually works fine for me in raids and the tanks don't have problems with my aggro?

    Owlkin frenzy I think is a quite good talent, since in icc you usually get taken by some aoe dmg which almost give it a promised proc chance.

    I'll probably respecc back into ooc as i currently got 1 piece of the 251 set.

    But genesis must be better than moonglow, as said in this thread before, moonglow is one of the worst mana efficient talents.
    GS is around on Defias Brotherhood EU as well, have no doub in that. But actually going on the GS bandwagon, and equipping subpar trinkets, is really, really bad.

    - IS glyph have had no place in our glyphs since 3.3.3. There is just no argument for it anymore.

    - Nature's Reach gives you a lot more mobility. If you have to stay closer to the boss, then you have a shorter range to move around on. Consider this: You are doing Marrowgar, and he goes into his Bonestorm. With shorter range, you will have to move more to get close enough to fire a few spells, which also cause you to take more damage from the bonestorm (as it increases the closer you are). The whole point is that, there is so much hazardous going around in ICC that you would want to stay away from. If you have a shorter range, you are being forced closer to the boss.

    Even more important, there is nothing else that is worth more, that you can take with those points. Genesis is weak, and can't compete with Reach at all.

    - Owlkin Frenzy is NOT a good talent. It is a filler, nothing more. The numbers I posted was obviously from ICC observations. Despite all the damage going about, it actually procs very rarely. On average on ICC figths, Owlkin Frenzy will increase your DPS by 0,5% per point. There is a lot of the ICC AOE that doesn't proc Owlkin Frenzy, so it is only a talent you throw things into when you have spare points. Despite being weak, Owlkin Frenzy is still stronger than Genesis.

    - Yes, genesis is better than moonglow, but nothing constitutes more than one point in genesis, to get further down the tree. Its like taking Owlkin Frenzy 3/3 and then not taking 4% hit from Balance of Power, when you could get that talent, and remove 100 hit from your gear to convert it into crit and haste instead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rightclick
    For GS stuff: keep your higher ilvl trinkets, but swap to what Qieth suggested at the beginning of the fight. The higher score will get you in a pug, but the better trinkets will do more dps
    Dont tell him to care about gearscore, mate. In any case, the difference in GS would not be that massive. Main GS comes from armor, not trinkets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garnik
    I have been playing a little around with the new Cata Balance Tree, and got this build out of it...
    We would very much like to keep this thread for *current* balance theorycrafting, not something that might come around in half a year

    As for moonkin form, it should be obvious: Its in alpha stage. Chill. They most likely just haven't decided on what kind of buffs have to go on it.
    ~ Armory - Youtube ~
    No longer the King of Moonkins, but perhaps the Prince of Shamans?

  20. #1040

    Re: Balance Druids – The Moonkin Guide

    Alpha has a lot of things that need to be sorted out it's actually pretty smooth but don't jump on any bandwagons yet please , it's really childish to be debating things that are not even out of alpha stage yet , from what I've seen *giggle* there's a hell of a lot of things that haven't been updated on MMO so just wait it'll all become more clear soon !

    Theorycrafting can wait till you have the full picture

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