Why the hate for Mage/Rogue?

[Deleted]

Rogue/mage an easy comp for 2.5k? What the hell have you been smoking? Even Akrioss the rogue hero says mage/rogue is at it's worst state through all the time he has played it and he feels it's not completely viable anymore. In our realm we've this very skilled mage/rogue team that struggles to get 2.3k this season since the comp is really just that bad, half the teams you meet counter you and you can lose to keyboard turning clickers no matter how good you play the game yourself.

And no, I don't play M/R, although I did play it to 2.3k+ in s5 and it was a hell of a struggle back then aswell....

The comp is probably annoying to lose against cause "they have so much burst" and "omgwtfop cc chains". That just doesn't mean the comp is actually good, most of the time you gain wins from the other team's very obvious and stupid mistakes.

[Nudle]

It's one of the most stable 2v2 comps in the game. Top 3? Probably not, but it's DEFINITELY an easy 2.5k comp.

Look at how many mage/rogues are above the 2k's compared to other comps.

/facepalm

[Floness]

Sigh. Every comp has counters. Some are hard counters that you'll be lucky to win 20% of ur matches against, while others are soft counters and skill can tip the balance in a win. Some teams have very few counters, or have atleast a fighting chance against 90% of the makeups (see s5 dk/pally). That is when a comp is OP.

I think ppl many times confuse precieved OPness and skill required to be successful. Same thing happens every season. Rogue/Mage against my team (dk/shamman) is not easy. In order to win we have to play almost perfectly, while the rogue can faceroll lock someone out and the mage can chain CC. It does not take skill. It causes QQ becuase of the low skill required. It causes even more QQ becuase Mages and Rogues are probably THE too biggest offender classes of not need hardly any pvp gear to win. Nothing is more frustrating than loosing to a MR team that both have 17k hp and 200 resilence, period.

[qae]

Sigh. Every comp has counters.

Yup you're right.

Rogue/Mage against my team (dk/shamman) is not easy. In order to win we have to play almost perfectly, while the rogue can faceroll lock someone out and the mage can chain CC.

That's because Rogue/Mage counters Resto sham.
And Resto sham is the only healer countered by Rogue/Mage.

[Deleted]

Ret/tree counters mage/rogue, war/druid counters mage/rogue, dk/tree counters mage/rogue. That alone is enough add on top of that random losses to dk/pala teams when you get your vanish bugged and yourself dotted through cloak and die due to that. I'd say it's pretty hard to go high as mage/rogue nowadays...

[rathok]

Ret/tree counters mage/rogue, war/druid counters mage/rogue, dk/tree counters mage/rogue. That alone is enough add on top of that random losses to dk/pala teams when you get your vanish bugged and yourself dotted through cloak and die due to that. I'd say it's pretty hard to go high as mage/rogue nowadays...

You forgot to add warlock+healer/rogue+healer teams, they are all an extremely rough shot in the dark. Shaman healer teams are easier than most for MR but blues have posted that Shamans need some help in arenas so... that's kind of beating a dead horse. About the resets... its your job to make sure that doesn't happen once you live through the opening gib attempt (which every good team will). I think most of the time when people lose to MR they feel cheated because they are used to having 5 minutes of hacking to down 1 player and the typical MR match will last anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute and a half. You can make 1 mistake and still beat VERY good healer+dps teams as a healer+dps team but that same mistake will cost you the game against MR. Conversely, if you make 1 great play (like picking the rogue out of stealth on the reset) then you've basically won the match. People just don't care to look at the other side.

Bottom line is... regardless if something is OP or not, people will QQ when they lose. MR was OP during the first month of S5 but there have been MASSIVE changes to the game since then.

[RMJ]

There is only one way to balance this silly pvp, remove items, remove skills, use a suit of some kind like the horse mount, every single person have the 100% same skills?.

But then whiners will whine over something else, so simple to balance imo. go Blizzard!.

[rathok]

lol, and whats with everyone saying "spam CC". You can trinket the first CC that's on you and after that either the mage has to cast another CC on you or the rogue has to peel off to blind you which means that you'll only be CCd for 10 seconds and after that you still have DR on you from poly for another 5 seconds so you can still interrupt the mages next cast. Being CC'd for 10 seconds is hardly being "spammed CC". That is no different than almost any other comp in the entire game...

[Fireheart]

If you have played mage rogue(or still do as I am) It's fucking easy to win against it when you face it yourself with another comp/class, atleast if you run with 1 melee class and that's what 95% of the teams are so well. Do you want a tip?

Tip 1. First of all, try to get into combat with the mage, if you get into combat the rogue can't sap. He used invisible? Run around like hell and I'l promise you the mage will be quite confused about where you are.

Tip 2. Don't stay so close together so that the rogue can sap your partner and half a second after cheapshot yourself. This is, by far the funniest thing to see in a game as mage rogue. Well, unless you're with a hunter, stay in the middle of the god damn flare for god sake.

Tip 3. Use the pillars, use blessing of sacrofice, l2 shadow:word death polymorph, l2 spellreflect, use your charge, pillarkite as a warrior as well to avoid polymorph.

Tip 4. KILL, THE, ROGUE. There are, so, so many teams going for the mage. wtf's your problem. Once a bleed effect is up on the rogue, your free to go.

This last thing is dedicated to all warriors with a healer. If you're healer is saped, and the mage is going for a polymorph on you? - Start pillarkiting the polymorphs as long as possible, when you know that sap wont last that much longer you're free to charge the mage. Use spellreflect, everything to make the attempt to polymorph waste more of their time. If you get polymorphed, and you're healer will be opened hard on(quite easy to notice this watching a mage loading frostbolt with an elemental up and the rogue cheapshotting you're healer). Use you're trinket, charge and bladestorm. Even though the rogue will try to get away, I promise you'l get your healer to stay alive and probably get the rogue down a bit. Click of your bladestorm and charge the rogue.

Now I, obivously pointed out what most teams don't even try to do. It's fun to see a healer go down without a warrior trinketing the polymorph because he's expecting a blind. Mage-rogue put out the most threat early in the game, therefore you should use your cooldowns early as well.

Do I even need to bring up deathknights? Lichborne someone?

Tip 4.

[lewis10123]

Played well, Mage/Rogue is an awesome team.
Atm I'm sitting at the dizzy'ing heights of 1.1k!!!! (pro ino) with a mate of mine as Ret/Afflic. We do it for fun, nothing serious.
Though when we come up against a Mage/Rogue, it either happens two ways:
1) We lose, horribly. I get burst down all under 1 sap and we basically just quit. (SKILLED TEAMS)
2) We win, epically. The rogue is a dribbler and the mage keyboard turns. Win. (UNSKILLED TEAMS)

[Fireheart]

Played well, Mage/Rogue is an awesome team.
Atm I'm sitting at the dizzy'ing heights of 1.1k!!!! (pro ino) with a mate of mine as Ret/Afflic. We do it for fun, nothing serious.
Though when we come up against a Mage/Rogue, it either happens two ways:
1) We lose, horribly. I get burst down all under 1 sap and we basically just quit. (SKILLED TEAMS)
2) We win, epically. The rogue is a dribbler and the mage keyboard turns. Win. (UNSKILLED TEAMS)

It's quite obvious that skill makes the difference if you win or loose doesn't it? Altough I find it wierd that it seems that you never take credit for winning a game based on how you play rather than what they did wrong.

[Nemecis]

Something really tells me OP is a whiner .. Yes I said it.

Clearly all he does is defend the combo saying that you should just out play them and that everyone has a chance to beat them. He acts like he's better then all and doesn't understand how he could possible loose?

Want to know what annoys me about the combo? Here it is: http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=110657

Oh and the fact that you can use alot of PvE gear in arena.

[rathok]

Something really tells me OP is a whiner .. Yes I said it.

Clearly all he does is defend the combo saying that you should just out play them and that everyone has a chance to beat them. He acts like he's better then all and doesn't understand how he could possible loose?

Want to know what annoys me about the combo? Here it is: http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=110657

Oh and the fact that you can use alot of PvE gear in arena.

Anyone can use a lot of PVE gear in the arenas... even you!

If you read my original post (and understood it....) then you would see that i was trying to find out why people complained about this comp so much even though it is NOT one of the top teams overall (no burst teams are). So if its not the top team to beat then why does everyone hate it so much. I've since found that out and just been feeding the trolls for my own entertainment.

[Ahven]

I dont hate it, I just think it's just not as viable as before since blizzard thought it was a good idea to buff restodruids. Resto druids make mage/rogue a nightmare.

[qae]

Want to know what annoys me about the combo? Here it is: http://warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=110657

these guys are pro

and don't tell me they just faceroll..
The mage is arcane spec with less than 100 resi.. Do you realize how vulnerable he is? He just can't afford to do ANY mistake.

[Matty123]

ret rogue is a great counter for rogue mage, its pretty much free points 95% of the time

[A.S.D.]

actually, the top 3v3 in the world is a cleave team.
warrior dk holy pally so coool.

Nope, actually the global winner for tournament 2009 is RMP. The final also was 2 teams RMP. This doesnt mean the setup need nerf. Last year was another team (cant remmember). If you care to look at the matches till the final you will see how close it was to beat this setup. Actually most fights finished at 3 to 2.

It's quite obvious that skill makes the difference if you win or loose doesn't it? Altough I find it wierd that it seems that you never take credit for winning a game based on how you play rather than what they did wrong.

NAILED IT

On the topic.
I am rogue and did alot of arenas before WOTLK with a druid (dont have the time now and I dont wanna star arenas before I get atleast some pvp gear) and i've never played RM (cause I cant find good mage)...anyway. Our matches agains RM were around 60/40 in ther favour and it wasnt because they are OP - we clearly knew our mistakes. It often happens that when we correct our mistakes suddenly we see that we can lose from another detail (mistake) that we havent paid attention to.

In conclusion - RM is good comp, but not in anycase OP. And to all noobs that expect to faceroll and win and think that it is the same for RM - please...dont embarrasse yourself. This conp requires lots of skills and timing. If you say the opposite then you clearly have no idea of the game at all. PERIOD >

[Sicarius]

Sheep and blind need to be put on the same dr.

Nuff said.

Sheep and Sap have DR idiot.

[Ershiin]

Because there is 3 things that makes PvP tedious..

1. Being CCed till you die.
2. Being killed so fast that the above mentioned CC doesnt even matter. (Refered to as 2shot)
3. Being unable to outdps a healer's manapool.

This setup uses point 1 and 2, thus isnt fun to play against.
DK-Pala in the last season used point 2 and 3, thus wasnt fun to play against either.
SL/SL-Lifebloom in TBC used point 3 to an extreme and thus wasnt fun to play against either.
Cleave teams tends to rely on point 2 alot and thus isnt fun either.

These are all observations and doesnt reflect my personal oppinion.. Since I dont really care for arena due to quite a different reason.