Druid Vs. Pally

[Mulciber1261]

These are the only tanks that are able to pull off me. Is this only me, or is it something that has changed. I use to be on top of the threat chain, but with the recent patches (like the 3.1) I've seemed to drop to second place. Anyone else experiencing me or am I getting lazy in my rotation?

[baseball]

If I had a point of reference I would understand the post more.


Are you playing a warrior?

[Spiritus]

If I had a point of reference I would understand the post more.


Are you playing a warrior?

Agreed. Your post subject implies you are looking at Druids and Paladins. Are you a Warrior? or are you a Druid asking if Paladins always pull off you?

[Khraeme]

i believe hes the druid...and geting owned by the pally tank in threat

[Mulciber1261]

Sorry, somehow the post didnt come out exactly how I worded it in my head :-). Maybe because I am at work lol and shouldnt be on here. Anyway I am ofcourse a druid, which is why I was asking other druids about their experiences. Yes they are owning me, and wanted to know if it was me or has anyone else experienced this.

[arel00]

Paladin's single target TPS is the best in game. Simple as that.

[getefix]

Druids gemmed for full agil can pull a steady 7k (maybe more if you're better than me). Pally tanks do 8-9k, and they don't need rage. They have a mana pool that starts off as full rather than us who start out with barely enough rage for 2 attacks. You won't pull off a paladin unless you focus one target and they're tanking 5. Paladins are the best tanks out there for almost every fight atm.

[Mulciber1261]

thats what I thought....glad its not me lol not gonna QQ about it although lol I think pally's took our place pre 3.1....in mitigation wise, and threat wise lol

[EzriEU]

Paladins are the best tanks out there for almost every fight atm.

Try talking to Paladins about that... they'll disagree.

Paladins are superior to every other tank in single-target threat generation due to their massive dmg-output. 3.1 changed them to be able to offtank (2nd in threat-position) for more than a minute as well, pre 3.1 they were oom at that point or had to gimp their threat generation by using Seal of Wisdom.

Other than that, Paladins have one last advantage over the other tanks: They are the only tanks that can gear for "hit immunity", making Block a viable Stat for mitigation and EH. Sadly, this is quite useless against bosses hitting for ~ 20k - you just won't equip for BV and BR on these if you're not completely brain-afk, you'll equip for as much EH as you need to survive 2 consecutive hits and then go for as much avoidance as you can get. You'll never reach the "3-hit-survivability" threshold anyway. So, "hit immunity" is only useful if there's a lot of small dmg coming in that you can effectively mitigate (or even nullify) by blocking.

Every other tank surpasses Paladins when it comes to what's useful against real heavy-hitters. Druids can equip for a still superior health pool or a resistance-equip that does not completely gimp your defensive stats and forces you into gemming Defense all over the place (read: Hodir) while still maintaining crit immunity and a decent amount of avoidance. DKs are drowning in cooldowns that effectively mitigate so many scary boss-abilities - in fact I'm wondering why we still only have 1 DK-tank. Warriors have the closest similarity to Paladins, yet they have better survivability-cooldowns with a comparable Shield Wall but a much better Shield Block and, last but by far not least, Last Stand. Lay on Hands gives you nothing in terms of survivability if a single hit would kill you anyway. T8 set boni will bring Warriors even further ahead of paladins as soon as Shield Block helps them mitigate magical damage. No surprise Blizzard considers giving Paladins another survival-cooldown.

Last aspect: AoE tanking. As much as Paladins were superior to any other tank in TBC when it came to AoE tanking they are falling behind nowadays. The Swipe buff for Druids was without any doubt absolutely necessary, but now that all tanks have decent AoE tanking capabilities, the disadvantages of the first tool ever implemented to that effect (=> Consecration) becomes obvious: It's stationary. But, other than Consecration, the Paladin has nothing at his disposal to gain aggro on more than three (Glyphed: four) targets. Every other tank either has multiple methods of snapping aggro (Warrior: TC and SW, DK: DnD and BB/Pest) or no cooldown on his AoE-threat-ability (druid: Swipe). Plus, except for a DKs DnD these abilities are all mobile, and DnD is at least targettable.
So, in conclusion, all tanks are capable of sufficient AoE-threat generation, but are quite different when it comes to snapping aggro in the first place.

This is not meant to QQ about Protection Paladins - in fact they are fine - it's only meant to illustrate that they are certainly not the "best tanks out there for almost every fight" as the OP suggested. They have their advantages, they have their disadvantages like every other tank. I'm only at a loss finding what the disadvantages of DKs are...

[Mulciber1261]

Try talking to Paladins about that... they'll disagree.

Paladins are superior to every other tank in single-target threat generation due to their massive dmg-output. 3.1 changed them to be able to offtank (2nd in threat-position) for more than a minute as well, pre 3.1 they were oom at that point or had to gimp their threat generation by using Seal of Wisdom.

Other than that, Paladins have one last advantage over the other tanks: They are the only tanks that can gear for "hit immunity", making Block a viable Stat for mitigation and EH. Sadly, this is quite useless against bosses hitting for ~ 20k - you just won't equip for BV and BR on these if you're not completely brain-afk, you'll equip for as much EH as you need to survive 2 consecutive hits and then go for as much avoidance as you can get. You'll never reach the "3-hit-survivability" threshold anyway. So, "hit immunity" is only useful if there's a lot of small dmg coming in that you can effectively mitigate (or even nullify) by blocking.

Every other tank surpasses Paladins when it comes to what's useful against real heavy-hitters. Druids can equip for a still superior health pool or a resistance-equip that does not completely gimp your defensive stats and forces you into gemming Defense all over the place (read: Hodir) while still maintaining crit immunity and a decent amount of avoidance. DKs are drowning in cooldowns that effectively mitigate so many scary boss-abilities - in fact I'm wondering why we still only have 1 DK-tank. Warriors have the closest similarity to Paladins, yet they have better survivability-cooldowns with a comparable Shield Wall but a much better Shield Block and, last but by far not least, Last Stand. Lay on Hands gives you nothing in terms of survivability if a single hit would kill you anyway. T8 set boni will bring Warriors even further ahead of paladins as soon as Shield Block helps them mitigate magical damage. No surprise Blizzard considers giving Paladins another survival-cooldown.

Last aspect: AoE tanking. As much as Paladins were superior to any other tank in TBC when it came to AoE tanking they are falling behind nowadays. The Swipe buff for Druids was without any doubt absolutely necessary, but now that all tanks have decent AoE tanking capabilities, the disadvantages of the first tool ever implemented to that effect (=> Consecration) becomes obvious: It's stationary. But, other than Consecration, the Paladin has nothing at his disposal to gain aggro on more than three (Glyphed: four) targets. Every other tank either has multiple methods of snapping aggro (Warrior: TC and SW, DK: DnD and BB/Pest) or no cooldown on his AoE-threat-ability (druid: Swipe). Plus, except for a DKs DnD these abilities are all mobile, and DnD is at least targettable.
So, in conclusion, all tanks are capable of sufficient AoE-threat generation, but are quite different when it comes to snapping aggro in the first place.

This is not meant to QQ about Protection Paladins - in fact they are fine - it's only meant to illustrate that they are certainly not the "best tanks out there for almost every fight" as the OP suggested. They have their advantages, they have their disadvantages like every other tank. I'm only at a loss finding what the disadvantages of DKs are...

The only thing that burns me up is, a pally or any other tank for that matter can gem +24 stam gems and not be hurt in the mitigation area or threat area. If we Druids do this we'd well be stupid lol cuz we'll get face stomped. Currently I'm lucky if I have 2k higher hp. And no I dont gem stam at all. Nor the blue stam trinket, I use the badge dodge one and Ignise Dodge one.

[arel00]

Try talking to Paladins about that... they'll disagree.

Paladins are superior to every other tank in single-target threat generation due to their massive dmg-output. 3.1 changed them to be able to offtank (2nd in threat-position) for more than a minute as well, pre 3.1 they were oom at that point or had to gimp their threat generation by using Seal of Wisdom.

Other than that, Paladins have one last advantage over the other tanks: They are the only tanks that can gear for "hit immunity", making Block a viable Stat for mitigation and EH. Sadly, this is quite useless against bosses hitting for ~ 20k - you just won't equip for BV and BR on these if you're not completely brain-afk, you'll equip for as much EH as you need to survive 2 consecutive hits and then go for as much avoidance as you can get. You'll never reach the "3-hit-survivability" threshold anyway. So, "hit immunity" is only useful if there's a lot of small dmg coming in that you can effectively mitigate (or even nullify) by blocking.

Every other tank surpasses Paladins when it comes to what's useful against real heavy-hitters. Druids can equip for a still superior health pool or a resistance-equip that does not completely gimp your defensive stats and forces you into gemming Defense all over the place (read: Hodir) while still maintaining crit immunity and a decent amount of avoidance. DKs are drowning in cooldowns that effectively mitigate so many scary boss-abilities - in fact I'm wondering why we still only have 1 DK-tank. Warriors have the closest similarity to Paladins, yet they have better survivability-cooldowns with a comparable Shield Wall but a much better Shield Block and, last but by far not least, Last Stand. Lay on Hands gives you nothing in terms of survivability if a single hit would kill you anyway. T8 set boni will bring Warriors even further ahead of paladins as soon as Shield Block helps them mitigate magical damage. No surprise Blizzard considers giving Paladins another survival-cooldown.

Last aspect: AoE tanking. As much as Paladins were superior to any other tank in TBC when it came to AoE tanking they are falling behind nowadays. The Swipe buff for Druids was without any doubt absolutely necessary, but now that all tanks have decent AoE tanking capabilities, the disadvantages of the first tool ever implemented to that effect (=> Consecration) becomes obvious: It's stationary. But, other than Consecration, the Paladin has nothing at his disposal to gain aggro on more than three (Glyphed: four) targets. Every other tank either has multiple methods of snapping aggro (Warrior: TC and SW, DK: DnD and BB/Pest) or no cooldown on his AoE-threat-ability (druid: Swipe). Plus, except for a DKs DnD these abilities are all mobile, and DnD is at least targettable.
So, in conclusion, all tanks are capable of sufficient AoE-threat generation, but are quite different when it comes to snapping aggro in the first place.

This is not meant to QQ about Protection Paladins - in fact they are fine - it's only meant to illustrate that they are certainly not the "best tanks out there for almost every fight" as the OP suggested. They have their advantages, they have their disadvantages like every other tank. I'm only at a loss finding what the disadvantages of DKs are...

I dare to disagree on two things: first, some paladins actually agree on their insane strength *whistles innocently*, and second, while it is true we don't gear for BR/BV against 20k hitting bosses, don't underestimate the importance of block even in those fights. Fully raidbuffed a good geared paladin blocks on average from 2k to 2.5k damage each swing. There's a net 10% extra mitigation from that.

I'm curious to see what the new "pala tank cooldown" will be tho. They announced one, and it's atm one of the lacking points. I'm somewhat worried, because it could be gambreaking if they don't tune it well (gamebreaking for the others, that is).