1. #1

    Is ST always better then Exp?

    Long and short of it. I changed a Ring which allowed me to maintain hit cap while boosting my ST. It also allowed me to drop a Hit gem.

    I gained:

    38 Strength
    42 Haste Rating

    I lost:

    33 Expertise Rating (dropping me to 5% from 6%)
    49 Crit Rating

    While I wasn't Exp capped before, I was pretty close. Is the upgrade to ST worth an extra 1% chance of having my stuff Dodged?


  2. #2

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    With your expertise as high as it is and the stat weights of crit and haste being close, I'd say yes the ring was an upgrade.

    Edit: Expertise becomes slightly less and less valuable the higher your % dodge removal is.

    For example, with 0 expertise expertise is probably more valuable than strength. With 4-6% expertise strength outweighs expertise. it's just how the stats scale.

  3. #3

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamson
    With your expertise as high as it is and the stat weights of crit and haste being close, I'd say yes the ring was an upgrade.

    Edit: Expertise becomes slightly less and less valuable the higher your % dodge removal is.

    For example, with 0 expertise expertise is probably more valuable than strength. With 4-6% expertise strength outweighs expertise. it's just how the stats scale.

    I'm fairly sure statistically expertise becomes more valuable per point the closer to the cap you get... The randomness of random number generation causes the drift of the actually failed attack percentage to shrink the closer to the cap you get, making subsequent points technically more valuable. Generally it could be argued that RNG could make you hold 6.4% attack failure until the moment you reach 6.4%+ reduction, though statistically the probability of that diminishes the closer to cap you get.

    The true value of expertise is massively dependant on the stat level of the rest of your gear. If you're running around with 2k attack power, expertise is probably pretty shitty for you. If you're running around with 4k... it's a lot better. It's a system of balances... So really you can't say which of those rings is better without knowing the rest of the gear.

  4. #4

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphorous

    I'm fairly sure statistically expertise becomes more valuable per point the closer to the cap you get... The randomness of random number generation causes the drift of the actually failed attack percentage to shrink the closer to the cap you get, making subsequent points technically more valuable. Generally it could be argued that RNG could make you hold 6.4% attack failure until the moment you reach 6.4%+ reduction, though statistically the probability of that diminishes the closer to cap you get.
    See last night on Freya, I saw the first "Dodge" I've seen in a looong time.

    If the damn Trash Ring would only drop, then I could solve my Exp problem. Sigh...(every other trash epic has dropped except the Signet. DOH!)

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    See last night on Freya, I saw the first "Dodge" I've seen in a looong time.

    If the damn Trash Ring would only drop, then I could solve my Exp problem. Sigh...(every other trash epic has dropped except the Signet. DOH!)
    the one from thorim is also nice
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

    - Prince Malchezaar

  6. #6

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by kailtas
    the one from thorim is also nice
    Definately. But the trash ring will replace the Construct ring, which replaced the Circle of Death


    Edit: So the Bladebearers Signet just dropped off Thorim trash. Now I'm back to 6% Exp but I'm 1% over Hit cap...sigh.


  7. #7

  8. #8

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamson
    wtb armory link
    It's a secret. Must maintain my anonymity for trolling's sake =D

    Now all I needs is for my guild to stop failing on Thorim and I can pickup Sif Promise, and then I will dominate all!

  9. #9

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    over the hit cap isnt that big of a deal because of consecrate and exorcism. Its not terrible to be a little over so yo ucan swap around gear and not have to completely regem.

    edit: also why the hell are you abbreviating strength as ST? Isnt it Str? Is it really that much easier to drop the r? Why even abbreviate, its only 3 letters.
    Check out my Ret Paladin YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/VarabenGaming

    #RETPRESENT

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Varaben

    edit: also why the hell are you abbreviating strength as ST? Isnt it Str? Is it really that much easier to drop the r? Why even abbreviate, its only 3 letters.
    parhaps it's only 3 letters, but u spent 1 and half line correcting him even when u understod what he ment.
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

    - Prince Malchezaar

  11. #11

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    I came in here thinking this was a thread about lvling and asking if sunken temple was better than straight question for experience ???
    Signature not acceptable (e.g. too large), read http://www.mmo-champion.com/general-discussions-22/important-signatures/ - Regards, Olison

  12. #12

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaij9841
    I came in here thinking this was a thread about lvling and asking if sunken temple was better than straight question for experience ???
    Same by reading the title I thought it was about Sunken Temple. Not Strength and Expertise.

  13. #13

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    I'd say questing beats sunken temple any day, that place is a nightmare to PuG.

    Wait a minute...
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Balnazzar&cn=Eydes

    Do you think you have what it takes to be in a 12/12 ICC heroic (world 34th) guild that doesnt use alt raids and doesnt extend raiding? Check us out at http://www.paparazziguild.com/

  14. #14

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by kailtas
    parhaps it's only 3 letters, but u spent 1 and half line correcting him even when u understod what he ment.
    +1 Internets awarded

  15. #15
    Pit Lord Alski's Avatar
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    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial
    I'd say questing beats sunken temple any day, that place is a nightmare to PuG.
    its a fun place if you like watching retards get lost

  16. #16

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alski
    its a fun place if you like watching retards get lost
    It's even funnier when you tell those retards to jump down in the hole in the middle ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    He's telling you upfront what's going to take. It's not ninja looting. It's pirate looting! YAARRRR!!!

  17. #17

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phosphorous

    I'm fairly sure statistically expertise becomes more valuable per point the closer to the cap you get... The randomness of random number generation causes the drift of the actually failed attack percentage to shrink the closer to the cap you get, making subsequent points technically more valuable. Generally it could be argued that RNG could make you hold 6.4% attack failure until the moment you reach 6.4%+ reduction, though statistically the probability of that diminishes the closer to cap you get.

    The true value of expertise is massively dependant on the stat level of the rest of your gear. If you're running around with 2k attack power, expertise is probably pretty shitty for you. If you're running around with 4k... it's a lot better. It's a system of balances... So really you can't say which of those rings is better without knowing the rest of the gear.
    There are diminishing returns as you get closer to the cap. For some classes, it never diminishes past the value of straight AP(str). As an example, most DW classes stack hit until they get their specials, or spell/poisons hit capped.

    If you have 0 expertise and have a 6.4% dodge rate (leaving out hit/glancing in this example), you'll do 93.6% of your full damage capability, on average. If you get halfway through the expertise cap, you'll be doing 96.8% of your full damage cap, or 103.42% more than you were doing before. If you then add the rest of the expertise, you'll be doing 100% damage, or 103.31% more than the halfway expertise cap. Expertise's marginal benefit decreased as you added more to it.

  18. #18

    Re: Is ST always better then Exp?

    Quote Originally Posted by kailtas
    parhaps u line u understod ment
    This is a list of words you fail at. 8)

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