1. #1

    GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    If I wanted to stack the deck to be succesful in Arena, I would be rolling a Disc priest, not a DK.
    Does anybody know what he meant by this?
    I am not sure if he meant Priests are easier to play then DKs or if he meant that Priests have more oppertunities in chosing their partners and brackets.

    I dunno about you guys but being a class that has been facerolled by these very DKs for a good while now and to be told "resilience will fix it", it isn´t very nice to hear Priests are easier to play then DKs are. Assuming that is what he meant ofcourse.

    Anyways I cannot help but feeling a bit offended by what GC wrote as his opinion on Priests and how that would make it easier to be successful in arena. Dunno if I am overreacting though.

    What do you think?

    and for the guys who didnt read the latest hmm about 5? retpaladin changes, they arent fotm anymore since long, fotm right now is warlock and priest obviously...

  2. #2

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    If I had to guess...he is probably talking more about current arena representation numbers than trying to imply one class is easier than the other.

  3. #3

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    I think he just meant what he said. For a good 2's team, it's much more vital to have a disc priest this season than it is to have a DK. Personally, I'm a healing pally/war 2's and DK's may get a little burst, but if that DK gets on me I really don't have any probs. Granted most teams run resto druid or disc priest, which DK's probably do a little better against- but I'm much more worried about the other team having a good disc priest than I'm worried about them having a good DK. Just my 2 cents.

  4. #4

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Yay - taking quotes out of context and then debating them to prove any point is so useful and fun!

    Either stop trolling or re-read the whole thread where GC postet that. If then you still don't get the point I'm actually sorry for you!

  5. #5

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Defaeco
    I think he just meant what he said. For a good 2's team, it's much more vital to have a disc priest this season than it is to have a DK. Personally, I'm a healing pally/war 2's and DK's may get a little burst, but if that DK gets on me I really don't have any probs. Granted most teams run resto druid or disc priest, which DK's probably do a little better against- but I'm much more worried about the other team having a good disc priest than I'm worried about them having a good DK. Just my 2 cents.
    Did you ever faced dk/druid ?...
    Can't beat that shit, dk has infinite life, druid has infinite mana, what else.

  6. #6

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Death Knight (3.1 Skills List / 3.1 Talent + Glyph Calc.)
    Death Knights in PvP and Frost Strike
    The DK has to have a lot of runic power to use that ability, so they can't unload with it right off the bat the way say a Ret can. Unholy is still far more dominant in PvP, which makes us think this problem is a little overblown. We might remove the dodge and parry prevention from it, which we added to make sure DKs didn't just Deathcoil instead. There are enough talents for Frost Strike now that it's going to be attractive regardless. (Source)

    [...] Yes, the resource has a ton to do with it. Nobody complains about PoM Pyro (much) because it can be done so infrequently. Frost Strike and Scourge Strike are essentially finishing moves. It's harder to use them as openers.

    Now that's not to say finishing moves can never be unbalanced, but I must admit to being a little surprised at all the focus on DKs. They were without a doubt too good last season, but currently they are below rogues in the brackets that "matter" and far below healers across the board. If I wanted to stack the deck to be succesful in Arena, I would be rolling a Disc priest, not a DK. (Source)
    Doesn´t make anymore sense to me, but ok.
    and for the guys who didnt read the latest hmm about 5? retpaladin changes, they arent fotm anymore since long, fotm right now is warlock and priest obviously...

  7. #7

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by EzriEU
    Yay - taking quotes out of context and then debating them to prove any point is so useful and fun!

    Either stop trolling or re-read the whole thread where GC postet that. If then you still don't get the point I'm actually sorry for you!
    Surprisingly, no one actually trolled anything -- keep the SUBJECT or get out. That's what a troll happens to be!

    Now, I'd have to say and agree with the second post regarding arena representation in 2v2. That is all.


    EDIT:
    Did you ever faced dk/druid ?...
    Can't beat that shit, dk has infinite life, druid has infinite mana, what else.
    This guy trolled after you posted.
    Johnny:* Dad!* I did it?!
    Dad:* Did what?!* Cure Cancer?!?!!
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  8. #8

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Yeah, As annoyed as i was at first it didnt come out the way he meant it.

    Purely numbers:

    More 5v5 teams have priests than DK's
    More 3v3 teams have priests than DK's
    More 2v2 teams have priests than DK's

    So as far as having a more well rounded class priests are higher. But thats due to the fact most are pigeonholed into RMP and 2345/6 are back to being a solid team again. Only 15/100 5s dont have priests. And in 3s there are 12 other cleave variations that wont have a DK on it.

  9. #9

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    2v2
    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/playe...l/all/all/all/

    3v3
    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/playe...l/all/all/all/

    5v5
    http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/playe...l/all/all/all/

    Priests are in fact more represented in 3s and 5s than DKs are, but not in 2s. I´m starting to see what GC meant though. Thanks for clearing it up for me.
    and for the guys who didnt read the latest hmm about 5? retpaladin changes, they arent fotm anymore since long, fotm right now is warlock and priest obviously...

  10. #10

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Not that people look at anything other than the top 100, but priests are higher percentage then dk's overall. Then again i guarantee (esp top 100) most PR havent played since the nerfs.

  11. #11

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gahno
    Does anybody know what he meant by this?
    I am not sure if he meant Priests are easier to play then DKs or if he meant that Priests have more oppertunities in chosing their partners and brackets.

    I dunno about you guys but being a class that has been facerolled by these very DKs for a good while now and to be told "resilience will fix it", it isn´t very nice to hear Priests are easier to play then DKs are. Assuming that is what he meant ofcourse.

    Anyways I cannot help but feeling a bit offended by what GC wrote as his opinion on Priests and how that would make it easier to be successful in arena. Dunno if I am overreacting though.

    What do you think?

    yes you are overreacting and taking what he said way out of context.

  12. #12

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander Nars
    Are u serious so stupid u don't realize that Dis priest are OP? Even GC knows it.
    So overpowered that we have to be offensive to win a fight, because no way in hell we'll survive a long haul?
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  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans kailtas's Avatar
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    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander Nars
    Are u serious so stupid u don't realize that Dis priest are OP? Even GC knows it.
    indeed.

    GC is working for blizz and ure a player aka customer

    that means if GC say that disc is stronger than Dk then disc is stronger than DK and theres nothing u can do about it
    Your greed, your foolishness has brought you to this end.

    - Prince Malchezaar

  14. #14

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Caveat: I do not seriously PvP. I do BGs sometimes. I've made a stab at arenas during the 1st WotLK season. I wasn't too serious about it, but I had fun. I had a bad record, I was paired up with classes I shouldn't have been paired up with.

    That being said, I am a little tired of the constant changes, and reasons behind, the tweaking of classes due to pvp. Are Disco priests more OP than a DK in arenas? I don't know. What I do know is that nothing should be tuned because of what the top 100 teams in the world are doing. IDK if people realizes how many pvp teams there are: Hundreds of Thousands.

    The argument that "priest has more representation than DK in the top 100 equals priests are more OP than DK" is so specious, pyrite would be jealous. If a larger percentage of 100 top teams, out of hundreds of thousands, can make a team with a priest work over a DK doesn't mean they are OP. What it means is, there is a larger percentage of the top 100 teams that have a priest. Could this mean that something about the priest class is unbalanced? yes. Could also mean that the most skilled pvpers in the world have chosen to use disco priests this season.

    Furthermore, just because there is an unbalance amongst the top 100 teams, doesn't mean that there is unbalance amongst the hundreds of thousands of other teams. If you give a man who casually plays golf a PGA approved driver and a PGA banned driver, there will be no discernible difference in his drive. To him, the banned driver is not OP. Give the banned driver to Tiger Woods, and now the banned driver is OP.

    Tweaking classes every time one class is more represented than another is silly. Tweaking classes because the top 100 have noticed a disparity is silly. However, making changes because of easily repeatable exploits is justified.

  15. #15

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by kailtas
    indeed.

    GC is working for blizz and ure a player aka customer

    that means if GC say that disc is stronger than Dk then disc is stronger than DK and theres nothing u can do about it
    I am a customer. GC is a chief representative of the business of which I am a customer. GC should bend over backwards for the customer. He should explain himself fully. He should not have to make statements that have to be clarified. Blizzard makes too much money to have an amateur communicator talking to its customer base.

    That being said, GC is entitled to his personal opinion, but it shouldn't be communicated to the customer base if it is arguable or not inline with the rest of company policy. This is spokesperson 101.

    So in essence you are right. There is nothing I can do about the fact that GC thinks disco is stronger than DK. But to categorically accept, as a paying customer, something a business presents to you is a horrible way to interact with a company. There is something you can do about it. Let the company know how you feel. If they do not change their policy and your disagreement is strong enough, then cease doing business with that company.

    OFC, what GC said is in no way enough to get anyone so peeved that they would stop playing Blizzard games. However, its a bad habit in life to keel over for people who should be working for you.

  16. #16

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander Nars
    If your defensive skills are good enough to allow a healer to dps a target instead of healing himself, that makes you op.
    They aren't though, that's the thing. With Discipline, unless you somehow find a way to drink, the match is over very quickly, win or lose.

    They burst you to hell, popping healing cooldowns (penance, desperate prayer, mending). They go OoM. They die from your burst. These are the three things that can happen. They can't sustain dps, they can't sustain healing. They can survive your trinket-cooldown smash, and they might be wearing leather instead of cloth, but they are still pretty kill-able. And unlike Resto Druids, or Holy Paladins, it's not hard to make a Discipline Priest run out of mana.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  17. #17

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Actually Spiritus, there are a few problems with what you're saying. First of all, the customer is not always right. Especially in a game like this, what one customer wants is often something quite harmful to other customers. And given that the people posting on forums tend to be a very vocal minority, it would be actually quite bad customer relations if Blizzard as a company bent over backwards to make the forum posters happy at the expense of everyone else. That's not to say that the forum posters aren't sometimes right, just that Blizz does need to excersize care on what opinions to take and which to discard.

    And you're also wrong about GC's position. He is /NOT/ a customer service rep. It's not his job to talk to the customer base. He's a lead designer. The only reason he posts at all is because the customers used to complain constantly that all they got to talk to were CSRs who didn't really have any input on the actual changes made to the game, and he figured giving people a chance to interact with someone who /does/ have a voice would give them a better understanding of how things work. Personally, I prefer it this way. Yes, GC says some dumb things on occassion, and I'm really unhappy with some of the decisions he's made. But it's still better than getting everything filtered through layers of CS and marketing before it's said to us. I got enough of that dealing with Sony after they took over EQ.

    I do agree that, as customers, we can let the company know how we feel about the company policies. I just think people get overly worked up on every comment GC makes, him saying he thinks Disc is stronger than DKs in arenas at the moment is neither a promise to nerf Disc nor one to buff DKs. Focus on current issues, not imagined future issues.

  18. #18

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander Nars
    Im not talking about priest with a 500 arena rating, GC said it himself if he wanted to face roll arena he would play a disc priest, u can make all the excuses you want but even the developers know that disc priest face roll to win in arena.
    How do you exactly faceroll as disc? Don't you know that you have to, like, target someone and heal that person. Use proper cooldowns and dispels / abolishes when needed? Monitor when to pop PI to save mana or make use of that short moment to manaburn. So how is that facerolling? Please, enlighten me. I totally have no clue about it and I'd like to faceroll disc arena just because GC said so (but he didn't, you just can't understand written English or are yet another of troll lineage).

  19. #19

    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynarii
    Actually Spiritus, there are a few problems with what you're saying. First of all, the customer is not always right. Especially in a game like this, what one customer wants is often something quite harmful to other customers. And given that the people posting on forums tend to be a very vocal minority, it would be actually quite bad customer relations if Blizzard as a company bent over backwards to make the forum posters happy at the expense of everyone else. That's not to say that the forum posters aren't sometimes right, just that Blizz does need to excersize care on what opinions to take and which to discard.

    And you're also wrong about GC's position. He is /NOT/ a customer service rep. It's not his job to talk to the customer base. He's a lead designer. The only reason he posts at all is because the customers used to complain constantly that all they got to talk to were CSRs who didn't really have any input on the actual changes made to the game, and he figured giving people a chance to interact with someone who /does/ have a voice would give them a better understanding of how things work. Personally, I prefer it this way. Yes, GC says some dumb things on occassion, and I'm really unhappy with some of the decisions he's made. But it's still better than getting everything filtered through layers of CS and marketing before it's said to us. I got enough of that dealing with Sony after they took over EQ.
    Perhaps I am being a little harsh on GC since he is being asked to do something that he really isn't trained to do. So I'll redirect my ire at the Blizzard management. There is no good reason why they cannot find someone both knowledgeable about the game mechanics and capable of consistently interacting with customers smartly. Your also correct in that a single customer isn't right when it would go against the wishes of other customers. However, when GC responds, he isn't just responding to the vocal minority, he is making statements that a significant percentage of customers read.

    I also agree that the current set up is superior to having "generic PR rep #5" respond.

    So, no to placating to every guy who throws up a forum post. But yes to smarter communication with customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynarii
    I do agree that, as customers, we can let the company know how we feel about the company policies. I just think people get overly worked up on every comment GC makes, him saying he thinks Disc is stronger than DKs in arenas at the moment is neither a promise to nerf Disc nor one to buff DKs. Focus on current issues, not imagined future issues.
    The fact that he is a lead designer and a chief communicator with the customer base makes his personal opinions extremely valid. There have been several times where blue posters have made comments outside patch notes that have been implemented.

    I suppose I'm being a little selfish and paranoid, but I always feel like the sword of Damocles is hanging over raiding priests whenever comments like this are made about PvP. Maybe I should try to have a little more faith.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: GCs statement about Priests being a better class then DKs for arena.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander Nars
    Im not talking about priest with a 500 arena rating, GC said it himself if he wanted to face roll arena he would play a disc priest, u can make all the excuses you want but even the developers know that disc priest face roll to win in arena.
    LOOOOL. Play a priest on a high level and than say again that we can "faceroll". Though I imagine you play a DK, Rogue or Paladin anyway.
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