Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

[Grimlok]

I don't have tier 8 4set yet but been trying out on dummy comparing my 0/13/58 dps by not casting Chaos bolt to casting it in my rotation.  The result are pretty close. On a 3 minutes fight. Not casting Chaos could come on top compared to casting it. Usually was less then 100dps difference.

Now I'm thinking since the 5% crit from 4 set bonus only apply to incinerate would it be better to not cast Chaos at all once you get 4 set and use the talent point from chaos  to get 2/2 Destruction Reach for less threat. Threat only an issue on General an hodir atm.

[Screwtape]

I'm sure someone will come along shortly with superior mathematical techniques, but I'll go ahead and throw my 2 cents in and say no.

Chaos bolt has a significantly higher damage per cast time than incinerate and I don't think +5% to it will compensate. Even if you assume that chaos bolt and incinerate do the same amount of damage (cb does more) you would be choosing between a spell that casts 10% faster or 5% crit. (Not sure if that translates exactly to effectively +10% haste but hey 8))

Scale factors for 0/13/58: haste- 1.52, crit 1.01

All of this dubious math leads me to believe that you'd need significantly more crit than 5% to make up for the faster cast.

[gherkin]

Screw - you're right, its about 10%. Close enough that it doesn't matter.

OP - Damage Per Cast Times:
Chaos Bolt 8364,
Incinerate 6360.
Difference = 31%

The reason your numbers are close is that Chaos Bolt only makes up ~10% of your damage due to the cooldown.

However, no matter how little percent of your damage Chaos bolt makes up, given the choice between two buttons Chaos Bolt is the better spell. Always.

In fact, I'll be trying this macro out this week

/cast Curse of Doom
/cast Conflagrate
/cast Chaos Bolt
/cast Incinerate

All the previous spells are on CD, so you could technically just spam this button and watch for Immolate (Immolate > all spells, according to DPCT).

[Loff]

In fact, I'll be trying this macro out this week

/cast Curse of Doom
/cast Conflagrate
/cast Chaos Bolt
/cast Incinerate

All the previous spells are on CD, so you could technically just spam this button and watch for Immolate (Immolate > all spells, according to DPCT).

Sorry, but that macro wont work, as soon as it hits a spell that triggers GCD (in this case, Curse of Doom), the macro will halt any following /cast commands.

More info:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macr...with_one_click

[Inshabel]

Except that CoD has a 1 minute cd so it will only trigger the gcd when it's off cd, wich is a good thing.

[arcain87]

Except that CoD has a 1 minute cd so it will only trigger the gcd when it's off cd, wich is a good thing.

My understanding of what he is explaining is they changed it so you can't just macro multiple abilities that all trigger the gcd together (except using cast sequence of course.)

I have not personally tried this or soon any blues or anything, but I have heard that since the last patch from multiple people.

[gherkin]

Sorry, but that macro wont work, as soon as it hits a spell that triggers GCD (in this case, Curse of Doom), the macro will halt any following /cast commands.

More info:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macr...with_one_click

This will work. The rule is one cast per click. However, every spell except incinerate has a cooldown, and once cast are uncastable. Therefore, all preceding spells on cooldown, that macro will still cast Incinerate.

Basically:

Click 1: /cast Curse of Doom -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS
Click 2: /cast --FAIL, DOOM NOT READY, CONTINUE-- Conflagrate -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS

etc

[Erushia]

This will work. The rule is one cast per click. However, every spell except incinerate has a cooldown, and once cast are uncastable. Therefore, all preceding spells on cooldown, that macro will still cast Incinerate.

Basically:

Click 1: /cast Curse of Doom -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS
Click 2: /cast --FAIL, DOOM NOT READY, CONTINUE-- Conflagrate -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS

etc

If you read even the first paragraph from the link in your quote, you would have gotten at least this out of it:

"Most spells and some items trigger the global cooldown (GCD) which keeps you from taking too many actions at once. Even if a spell fails to cast, if it would trigger the GCD, it prevents subsequent /casts in the macro from running."

So no, the macro does not work.

[Inshabel]

I tried it yesterday, it indeed does not work. My mistake.

[gherkin]

I finally got around to it as well.

Addon development time >

[shade3891]

Check this out:

Basicly i spam this it not 100% accurate but say 95% i still have all the spells on my action bar to trigger any spell separate if needed.
I dont include CoDoom in the macro since i am switching alot with curses depending on the fight and classes that are raiding with me.

/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/castrandom conflagrate,chaos bolt,ssx,ssx
/castsequence reset=combat/target/dead Immolate,incinerate,incinerate,incinerate
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1

For the ones wondering wtf is ssx its just a random keypress needed for the macro to skip the cast random line so it continue's the castsequence. Also you might wanna add or remove a incinerate from the castsequence line depending on your hasterating.

The macro does reset on: target switching, a death target and leaving combat.
And removes the irritating error sound presses whooray!

I say give it a try! And let me know what you think of it, maybe someone can even improve this furter after reading it.
Btw manual presses are mostly better but on some evenings i cba to focus or when i get disstracted by my noob bro i can spam my macro without suffering major dps loss.

[gherkin]

Not as precise as i'd like, but neato!

[Beachchairs]

I don't have tier 8 4set yet but been trying out on dummy comparing my 0/13/58 dps by not casting Chaos bolt to casting it in my rotation. The result are pretty close. On a 3 minutes fight. Not casting Chaos could come on top compared to casting it. Usually was less then 100dps difference.

Now I'm thinking since the 5% crit from 4 set bonus only apply to incinerate would it be better to not cast Chaos at all once you get 4 set and use the talent point from chaos to get 2/2 Destruction Reach for less threat. Threat only an issue on General an hodir atm.

/inc math

Assumptions:
2000sp (tooltip)
25% crit (tooltip)
0% haste
Hit capped
+5% crit to incin
0/13/58 spec
The target is affected by immolate
Glyph of Incinnerate
No pyroclasm


DPCT of Chaos Bolt:
cast time: 2.5 - 0.5 = 2.0 seconds
comment: Base - Bane
damage: ((1429 + 1813)/2 + 2000*0.914)*1.15*1.15*1.25 = 5702 damage
comment: ( average base damage + spell power * coefficient) * emberstorm * fire and brimstone * crit rate
DPCT = Damage / Cast Time = 5702 / 2.0 = 2851 damage / second

DPCT of Incinerate:
cast time: 2.50 - 0.25 = 2.25 seconds
comment: Base - Emberstorm
damage: ((727.5 + 845)/2 + 2000*0.914)*1.15*1.15*1.30*1.05 = 4719 damage
comment: (average base damage w/ immolate + spell power * coefficient) * emberstorm * fire and brimstone * crit rate * glyph
DPCT = Damage / Cast Time = 4719 / 2.25 = 2097 damage / second

Chaos Bolt is roughly 36% better than Incinerate with the 4pT8. If you are getting better results dropping Choas Bolt, you are either a) getting a lucky string of crits with incin and not CB (ie you need a larger sample size) b) you are screwing up adding CB to your rotation c) incinerate is doing a higher percentage of its average damage than chaos bolt (again, you need a larger sample size) d) some combo of the above.

[gherkin]

I said all of this in fewer lines of text, with a more concise outcome.

And just because:
me me me me me.