1. #1

    Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    I don't have tier 8 4set yet but been trying out on dummy comparing my 0/13/58 dps by not casting Chaos bolt to casting it in my rotation.  The result are pretty close. On a 3 minutes fight. Not casting Chaos could come on top compared to casting it. Usually was less then 100dps difference.

    Now I'm thinking since the 5% crit from 4 set bonus only apply to incinerate would it be better to not cast Chaos at all once you get 4 set and use the talent point from chaos  to get 2/2 Destruction Reach for less threat. Threat only an issue on General an hodir atm.

  2. #2

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    I'm sure someone will come along shortly with superior mathematical techniques, but I'll go ahead and throw my 2 cents in and say no.

    Chaos bolt has a significantly higher damage per cast time than incinerate and I don't think +5% to it will compensate. Even if you assume that chaos bolt and incinerate do the same amount of damage (cb does more) you would be choosing between a spell that casts 10% faster or 5% crit. (Not sure if that translates exactly to effectively +10% haste but hey 8))

    Scale factors for 0/13/58: haste- 1.52, crit 1.01

    All of this dubious math leads me to believe that you'd need significantly more crit than 5% to make up for the faster cast.
    Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
    I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.

  3. #3
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Screw - you're right, its about 10%. Close enough that it doesn't matter.

    OP - Damage Per Cast Times:
    Chaos Bolt 8364,
    Incinerate 6360.
    Difference = 31%

    The reason your numbers are close is that Chaos Bolt only makes up ~10% of your damage due to the cooldown.

    However, no matter how little percent of your damage Chaos bolt makes up, given the choice between two buttons Chaos Bolt is the better spell. Always.

    In fact, I'll be trying this macro out this week

    /cast Curse of Doom
    /cast Conflagrate
    /cast Chaos Bolt
    /cast Incinerate

    All the previous spells are on CD, so you could technically just spam this button and watch for Immolate (Immolate > all spells, according to DPCT).

    R.I.P. YARG

  4. #4

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin
    In fact, I'll be trying this macro out this week

    /cast Curse of Doom
    /cast Conflagrate
    /cast Chaos Bolt
    /cast Incinerate

    All the previous spells are on CD, so you could technically just spam this button and watch for Immolate (Immolate > all spells, according to DPCT).
    Sorry, but that macro wont work, as soon as it hits a spell that triggers GCD (in this case, Curse of Doom), the macro will halt any following /cast commands.

    More info:
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macr...with_one_click

  5. #5

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Except that CoD has a 1 minute cd so it will only trigger the gcd when it's off cd, wich is a good thing.
    The Arcane only corrupts the weak..

  6. #6

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Inshabel
    Except that CoD has a 1 minute cd so it will only trigger the gcd when it's off cd, wich is a good thing.
    My understanding of what he is explaining is they changed it so you can't just macro multiple abilities that all trigger the gcd together (except using cast sequence of course.)

    I have not personally tried this or soon any blues or anything, but I have heard that since the last patch from multiple people.

  7. #7
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loff
    Sorry, but that macro wont work, as soon as it hits a spell that triggers GCD (in this case, Curse of Doom), the macro will halt any following /cast commands.

    More info:
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Making_a_macr...with_one_click
    This will work. The rule is one cast per click. However, every spell except incinerate has a cooldown, and once cast are uncastable. Therefore, all preceding spells on cooldown, that macro will still cast Incinerate.

    Basically:

    Click 1: /cast Curse of Doom -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS
    Click 2: /cast --FAIL, DOOM NOT READY, CONTINUE-- Conflagrate -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS

    etc

    R.I.P. YARG

  8. #8

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin
    This will work. The rule is one cast per click. However, every spell except incinerate has a cooldown, and once cast are uncastable. Therefore, all preceding spells on cooldown, that macro will still cast Incinerate.

    Basically:

    Click 1: /cast Curse of Doom -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS
    Click 2: /cast --FAIL, DOOM NOT READY, CONTINUE-- Conflagrate -- SUCCESS, DISABLE NEXT CASTS

    etc
    If you read even the first paragraph from the link in your quote, you would have gotten at least this out of it:

    "Most spells and some items trigger the global cooldown (GCD) which keeps you from taking too many actions at once. Even if a spell fails to cast, if it would trigger the GCD, it prevents subsequent /casts in the macro from running."

    So no, the macro does not work.

  9. #9

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    I tried it yesterday, it indeed does not work. My mistake.
    The Arcane only corrupts the weak..

  10. #10
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    I finally got around to it as well.

    Addon development time >

    R.I.P. YARG

  11. #11

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Check this out:

    Quote Originally Posted by shade3891

    Basicly i spam this it not 100% accurate but say 95% i still have all the spells on my action bar to trigger any spell separate if needed.
    I dont include CoDoom in the macro since i am switching alot with curses depending on the fight and classes that are raiding with me.

    Code:
    /console Sound_EnableSFX 0
    /castrandom conflagrate,chaos bolt,ssx,ssx
    /castsequence reset=combat/target/dead Immolate,incinerate,incinerate,incinerate
    /console Sound_EnableSFX 1
    For the ones wondering wtf is ssx its just a random keypress needed for the macro to skip the cast random line so it continue's the castsequence. Also you might wanna add or remove a incinerate from the castsequence line depending on your hasterating.

    The macro does reset on: target switching, a death target and leaving combat.
    And removes the irritating error sound presses whooray!

    I say give it a try! And let me know what you think of it, maybe someone can even improve this furter after reading it.
    Btw manual presses are mostly better but on some evenings i cba to focus or when i get disstracted by my noob bro i can spam my macro without suffering major dps loss.

  12. #12
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Not as precise as i'd like, but neato!

    R.I.P. YARG

  13. #13

    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimlok
    I don't have tier 8 4set yet but been trying out on dummy comparing my 0/13/58 dps by not casting Chaos bolt to casting it in my rotation. The result are pretty close. On a 3 minutes fight. Not casting Chaos could come on top compared to casting it. Usually was less then 100dps difference.

    Now I'm thinking since the 5% crit from 4 set bonus only apply to incinerate would it be better to not cast Chaos at all once you get 4 set and use the talent point from chaos to get 2/2 Destruction Reach for less threat. Threat only an issue on General an hodir atm.
    /inc math

    Assumptions:
    2000sp (tooltip)
    25% crit (tooltip)
    0% haste
    Hit capped
    +5% crit to incin
    0/13/58 spec
    The target is affected by immolate
    Glyph of Incinnerate
    No pyroclasm


    DPCT of Chaos Bolt:
    cast time: 2.5 - 0.5 = 2.0 seconds
    comment: Base - Bane
    damage: ((1429 + 1813)/2 + 2000*0.914)*1.15*1.15*1.25 = 5702 damage
    comment: ( average base damage + spell power * coefficient) * emberstorm * fire and brimstone * crit rate
    DPCT = Damage / Cast Time = 5702 / 2.0 = 2851 damage / second

    DPCT of Incinerate:
    cast time: 2.50 - 0.25 = 2.25 seconds
    comment: Base - Emberstorm
    damage: ((727.5 + 845)/2 + 2000*0.914)*1.15*1.15*1.30*1.05 = 4719 damage
    comment: (average base damage w/ immolate + spell power * coefficient) * emberstorm * fire and brimstone * crit rate * glyph
    DPCT = Damage / Cast Time = 4719 / 2.25 = 2097 damage / second

    Chaos Bolt is roughly 36% better than Incinerate with the 4pT8. If you are getting better results dropping Choas Bolt, you are either a) getting a lucky string of crits with incin and not CB (ie you need a larger sample size) b) you are screwing up adding CB to your rotation c) incinerate is doing a higher percentage of its average damage than chaos bolt (again, you need a larger sample size) d) some combo of the above.

  14. #14
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Chaos bolt not worth it with Tier 8 4set?

    I said all of this in fewer lines of text, with a more concise outcome.

    And just because:
    me me me me me.

    R.I.P. YARG

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