Poll: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

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  1. #41

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    hardmodes are a real chalange they r great
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  2. #42

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Yes, yes they do. They gave me what I'm looking for. They are challanging and everyone needs to be on their toes. There is not a lot of room for error. I don't really care if the loot is great or not, as long as I get the feeling of killing a hardmode boss with a couple of my closest ingame friends

  3. #43

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal
    NO

    At the end of the day its still the same boring fight just with a enrage timer/extra add/more hp.

    This, i miss the days when hard fights were unique and hard for being made that way, not by pressing a button

  4. #44
    Dreadlord Sellest's Avatar
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    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    I actually like hard modes. They are harder and yields better rewards, downing them is "accomplishment" for me and not a face-roll. Ulduar IS easy without hard modes and hard modes are fine for people who wants challenge. This is not something I would QQ about.

  5. #45

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    sitenote... isn't VeeVees sig a bit too huge ?!
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  6. #46

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnementh
    this is a sort of 50/50 split in terms of how to answer.

    For those of you who will say "ohh he's never done anything" here's my armory go look if you want: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-a...&gn=Conviction

    I've gone and done a lot of the 10man hardmodes and my group has being doing it for 3 resets now. First reset we didn't try hard modes (our 10man was the basis to the guilds 25man runs so we just learned the fights), second reset we worked on some hard modes but really just did a fast 1 night clear to get it over with. This last reset we did a bunch of the hard modes and they weren't all that difficult. The only one we didn't really 1 shot was General cause it took some time getting the players used to it. We plan on trying harder yogg, fire fighter and everything else this weekend.

    So far I haven't found the 10 man achievements hard. The thing that really sets people back, also causes many people here to pull the "you suck cause you haven't cleared it all yet" is that finding a solid 25 players to fill out a guild is difficult. My server is high pop and people pug Ulduar all day long because they can. But finding 25 players who are respectable, intelligent, know their class, shows up and doesn't stand in every void zone possible is surprisingly hard. That alone stunts most players abilities to do the 25man achievements.

    Now of course you can say "well go get into a better guild". To some this is entirely possible. To others it isn't. I know for myself I have had offers to join better guilds on the server but it really just doesn't fit my time frames and I don't want to raid 6 days a week till 3-4am just to get up 4 hours later and head into work.

    The hard modes leave much to be desired. I preferred it where the encounter was difficult and guilds were stopped at a single boss and to get their loot they needed to work hard to get through it. Currently, and this kills a lot of guilds, people show up for farmed content and when you leave the last night of the week for working on a few hard modes half the people don't show up because they don't care now that they have gear. While obviously hard mode gear is a bit better, someone in full t8.5 with everything under the hard mode loot can still get into most guilds who will in turn carry them through the hard modes and then they don't have to spend the time wiping. If players were forced to actually work hard to clear content and get their loot this wouldn't be as much of a problem but again my server pugs Ulduar all day so any no name scrub can get the same loot then get into guilds who carry them through the rest '-.-.

    While the idea for hard modes was beneficial monetary wise (for the casuals and the poor players) it is very frustrating as a partially more elitist raider who spends 4-5 nights a week raiding cause it causes a lot more internal guild issues and stunts progression into achievements.
    Solution? Go play another game.

  7. #47

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    I like the hard modes, and the achievement system in general.

    Of course some of the mentioned effects take place, because some players don't adapt to the system. That has been the case all the time. When TBC hit, people wer boasting "LFG Karazhan, full epic rogue" although "full epic" was not a sign of good or experienced players anymore, everyone who wanted to be was full epic. When WotLK hit, the same people were saying "LFG Ulduar10, full T7 dk" when having full tier sets is not worth much as it does not include a single "hard" achievement.

    People explaining that hard modes are no real content are just the same. They are, that is the game now. And hard modes ARE hard, at least some of them. Even some Achievements are, like Immortal or Malygos6min in T7 and many more in T8.

    I think this new approach to PvE is very nice. If you just want to raid a little bit, do the easy modes. If you really want to challenge yourself and your group, if you really want to understand every aspect of the fight and add some spice to it, go for the hard modes. If you just like collecting achievement points, do the fun modes. You have WAY more ways to play now than before. If your guild does not want to play the same way you want to, maybe your guild is the problem (or you are), not the Achievement system or the hard modes.
    Proud author of the totally outdated WotLK Affli Thread

  8. #48

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    i LOVE the hard modes....we actually wiped for more than a few hours on most of the ones we have tried. and im not joking im looking for content thats is challenging and takes time to master.

    NOW comes the kicker...get rid of the easy modes just put a vendor at the door that sells the gear for 2 or 3g a piece and make it so you can only buy one piece a week or something. will achieve the same end and the pvpers and ...non raiding population can still have the same gear as the ppl who raid (that way they wont qq about having to work hard and learn and deal with other ppl to get it) and dont have to lag up the servers and waste there time cake walking thru ulduar

  9. #49

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by sainthubbins
    I have two issues with the people who are complaining that hard modes aren't hard enough (besides the obvious fact that they probably haven't done them).

    1) Stop comparing it to Sunwell. Compare it to SSC/TK, or even Hyjal aside from Archimonde. It's not the final raid. There are still two more, harder, raids to come in Wrath. This isn't the pinnacle of progression.

    2) Stop saying that 10 man hard modes are easy when you go in there wearing 25 man gear, whether it's Naxx 25 or Ulduar 25. Ulduar 10 normal modes are tuned for people in Naxx 10 gear with a little bit of higher level gear, and Ulduar 10 hard modes are tuned for people in almost complete Ulduar 10 normal gear. Just because you can go in in Naxx 25/Ulduar 25 gear and easily accomplish the 10 man hard modes doesn't mean it's easy for the people it's intended for.
    1) win. IT IS WAY MORE DIFFICULT =)

    2) DOUBLE WIN. The ones that talk the most about easy hard modes are players in 25 man gear doing 10 man hard modes... wow... impressive... that all your ten players have X% better stats then it was supposed to and did it... Fantastic really...

    Good Job sainthubbins hope to read more of those answers soon ^^

  10. #50
    High Overlord swedishfish's Avatar
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    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    I absolutely love Ulduar Hard modes.

    Especially 10 man. Theyre right on my level. Very difficult by not so hard that you want to shoot somebody lol. Ive done FL 3 towers, XTs hard mode, Ignis fast mode, Hodirs hard mode, and attempted I choose you Steelbreaker. Loved every fight.

    Good Job Blizz IMO

  11. #51

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    The only problem I have with Hard Modes is that if you wiping on them you have the option of just doing it on regular to get through it, and so then people in your guild start complaining... saying they just want to get it done on regular when you can't get it done on Hard Mode.

    Now that is a very Elitist view of it but as an Elitist; that being my only complaint - I think Blizzard did a great job with Hard Modes. I wish I could think of a way to fix this other than ignoring the complainers or finding a new guild.

    The only thing i can come up with would be to make a new setting for the instances - along with Heroic and Normal, but that might not be a very good idea unless Blizzard could somehow find a way for it to work.

    So all-in-all I would say that Hard Modes don't give me what i would like out of raids, but they do give me what I'm "looking for" in them with all the CasualCraft that is being implemented into the game.

  12. #52

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixon
    i LOVE the hard modes....we actually wiped for more than a few hours on most of the ones we have tried. and im not joking im looking for content thats is challenging and takes time to master.

    NOW comes the kicker...get rid of the easy modes just put a vendor at the door that sells the gear for 2 or 3g a piece and make it so you can only buy one piece a week or something. will achieve the same end and the pvpers and ...non raiding population can still have the same gear as the ppl who raid (that way they wont qq about having to work hard and learn and deal with other ppl to get it) and dont have to lag up the servers and waste there time cake walking thru ulduar
    Oddly, I can't remember reading any posts that complained that something was too hard and needed to be nerfed. I've read nothing but post after post that say that things are too easy.

    Even when things actually WERE too hard for a group at the intended gear level (Razorscale comes to mind as being just this side of mathematically impossible), I didn't see people QQing about that.

    The only ones I've seen QQing are people like you.

  13. #53

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    People who find the fights too hard usually don't have the time to go on forums and complain.

  14. #54

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpwkeeper
    Oddly, I can't remember reading any posts that complained that something was too hard and needed to be nerfed. I've read nothing but post after post that say that things are too easy.

    Even when things actually WERE too hard for a group at the intended gear level (Razorscale comes to mind as being just this side of mathematically impossible), I didn't see people QQing about that.

    The only ones I've seen QQing are people like you.
    i think you failed to pick up on the sarcasm in the second part of my post.....

    for the slower ppl:

    i like the hard modes, i only wish there was no easier option, that the hard modes were simply the normal boss and how it had to be done...i find them to require about the same amount of time to master as much of the ssc and tk content...possibly a little harder than most of it but not by alot (and i would ecpect that...were lvl 80 now we should know how to play better than we did at 70...at least the idea of a rpg would suggeest that). it took my guild alamost a week on lurker and even longer on most of the other ssc and tk bosses. the mid difficulty modes seem to take about 2 or 3 days with harder ones (i have not done yet) taking a few (2 or 3) weeks at most. and algalon sounds very cool...i just hope they are not making a mid difficulty boss seem hard by limiting your time on him...but if he is uber hard and you have limited time its a sweet idea.

  15. #55
    RWeber
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    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixon
    i like the hard modes, i only wish there was no easier option, that the hard modes were simply the normal boss and how it had to be done...i find them to require about the same amount of time to master as much of the ssc and tk content...possibly a little harder than most of it but not by alot (and i would ecpect that...were lvl 80 now we should know how to play better than we did at 70...at least the idea of a rpg would suggeest that). it took my guild alamost a week on lurker and even longer on most of the other ssc and tk bosses. the mid difficulty modes seem to take about 2 or 3 days with harder ones (i have not done yet) taking a few (2 or 3) weeks at most. and algalon sounds very cool...i just hope they are not making a mid difficulty boss seem hard by limiting your time on him...but if he is uber hard and you have limited time its a sweet idea.
    I agree completely. Make 10 mans easy enough that "everyone can experience the content", just stop screwing up the 25 man raiding.

  16. #56

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by det
    An interesting..and true aspect. However Blizzard could indeed have made Hardmodes the default mode. Where would we be then? Your average guild (and even your much more advanced but not elite) wouldn't even get past Leviathan - because that means Leviathan with all towers up. Ulduar would a wasted Instance.
    QFT. And if it were the case that the Hardmodes were the default modes, then we'd be back on page 1 with a very small number of players actually experiencing the content that Blizzard painstakingly designs for months. This would then most likely result in a declining player base and less money going into developing the game (A game that I assume the majority of the posters here play, and apparently don't enjoy in the least).

    Personally, my guild is only just up to mimiron in 25man without doing hard modes, and for us, its a challenge on the way as we're a guild made up of alot of old friends. Hard modes are just not for us, that doesn't mean that we don't log on to the game to raid. Does it make us 'omg sucky casuals you don't deserve epics'? I'd say no. I enjoy Ulduar10/25 immensely, the fights are fun, the scenery is indeed epic, and there's just so much to it that is enjoyable without pushing for world first kills and hard mode achievements.

  17. #57

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    I agree with Warsonglord's solution completely. My problem with the hard mode is that it's still farming the same boss. I like progression in the fact of facing a new boss or new content. Having to go in and change the way the same boss I fought for the last several months works, while making it somewhat harder, its still the same boss. Kinda like going from 10 man to 25 man. Same boss with just a few tweaks. If you could make a 3rd selection like Warsonglord stated and have the instance options of: 10, 25, and Heroic (Hard mode) then it would give more of that feel that i think the "Elite" raiders are looking for. Like mentioned above, if you wipe a few times on it and just do it on normal just to get past it then it kinda cheapens the whole idea of Hard mode, IMO. However if it was set to hard mode when entered then ALL boss's will be set to that mode and you cant just skip one by doing it on easy. Just a thought and what i feel would solve all the QQ'ing about being too hard, too easy, or just get it back to how it was so only the "Elite" can see certain content thus feeling "Elite" again.

  18. #58

    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warsonglord
    hahaha Ulduar Hard Modes aren't harder than Sunwell
    No, probably not. However, they are harder than anything in SSC/TK with respective nerfs to all 3 instances. Essentially I'm saying pre-nerf HM Mimiron was harder than pre-nerf Kael/Vashj, while nerfed HM Mimiron is still harder than Kael/Vashj.

    Compare hard-mode Icecrown Citadel with Sunwell, and then we'll see.

  19. #59
    RWeber
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    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by det
    An interesting..and true aspect. However Blizzard could indeed have made Hardmodes the default mode. Where would we be then? Your average guild (and even your much more advanced but not elite) wouldn't even get past Leviathan - because that means Leviathan with all towers up. Ulduar would a wasted Instance.
    Or maybe they could've done what they did before; progressively nerf the raids and introduce new badge gear so that people of all skill and commitment levels can keep progressing. Of course the real reason behind the new system is to save money (every $ saved in development goes directly to the bottom line of the company). They can just make a single raid instance and drag it out for ages by making people run the same thing over and over again in 10/25/easy/hard modes.

    Everyone has the chance to do this now too. You can decide that you and your guild will only attempt Leviathan with 4 towers up. Week after week. Until you crack it or disband the guild. Like M#uru has killed guilds. Not a pretty sight. You chose NOT to do it. Hardly Blizzards fault.
    This flawed argument has been debunked a thousand times already. Yes, there are any number of things you can do to handicap yourself: don't learn from other guilds, don't gear up in easy modes, don't wear pants, etc.etc. It's not a solution to a broken raiding system. The real challenge and enjoyment for many people comes from knowing that you've done everything possible to kill a new boss, not arbitrarily handicapping yourself.

  20. #60
    RWeber
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    Re: Do Hard Modes give you what your looking for in a raid?

    Quote Originally Posted by det
    Hmm..I for one remember the huge QQ of "oh noes, a scrub running Kara for 10 weeks gets T6 lootzotZ from badges..Not fair, not fair"
    Sure, and that was a great way to spot someone who was being carried through content. The people who were actually working on their progress were too busy to worry about what other people were wearing.

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