Razorscale immune to taunt

[SirLancelittle]

The last two weeks my guild has noticed a weird problem on 25 man razorscale. During phase 2 (after razor has landed), our tanks alternate taunting off of each other in order to prevent debuff stacking. However on several recent occasions this taunt has failed, not due to a resist but rather because the boss was immune to taunt.

At first I thought this was a mistake, but now 3 of our tanks have reported this problem. In most of these cases, the taunt has worked on the 2nd or 3rd try, but in a couple of cases the tank has died because he has reached 4-5 stacks (80-100% armor reduction) before anyone could get a taunt to work.

Anyone else seen this problem? Is it a known issue? Is there a trick to prevent it?

Thanks

[Misfortune]

Diminishing returns on taunt. Let each tank get 2 stacks before the next one taunts. That will allow enough time to pass so that taunt won't be on DR.

[Kuismar]

Diminishing returns on taunt. Let each tank get 2 stacks before the next one taunts. That will allow enough time to pass so that taunt won't be on DR.

this, and if your tanks and healers can handle it maybe go for 3 debuffs, and make sure the last tank has the debuffs fallen off before the taunt again otherwise your taunting too early and too often and DR will kick in faster.

[Arcybaby]

It's called diminishing returns..

Tell you tanks to not panic when Razor lands, and coordinate the taunting.

A trick I have found is to change angle when walking backwards as razor casts the big breath, sometimes you don't get the buff as it misses so you can tank him longer. If you move too slow you will get stacks faster and the other tank will need to taunt sooner etc etc diminishing returns = no taunting = wipe

[SirLancelittle]

Hmm. I was under the impression that diminishing returns meant subsequent taunts were "less" effective, not completely unusable. In PvP for example CC might last 8 seconds then 5 seconds then 2 seconds, etc.

Someone in the guild was saying it might be diminishing returns, but it looked like it happened once on a player's first taunt...

Can someone explain to me in a little more detail how diminishing returns works on taunt. Is there essentially a "cooldown" on how often you can taunt the same target? If a player taunts a boss, does this only cause the cooldown for himself or is it for all players on that target? If so, do you know what the cooldown is? Do resisted/missed taunts cause this cooldown or just successful ones.

Thanks again

[halmmar]

Hmm. I was under the impression that diminishing returns meant subsequent taunts were "less" effective, not completely unusable. In PvP for example CC might last 8 seconds then 5 seconds then 2 seconds, etc.

In PvP it's 8-4-2-Immune. It's the same with taunts in PvE now.

[Xs]

20 Second reset period
Taunt effect doesn't really change (duration, but who tanks with that?)
3 Taunts in 20 secs and its immune

[Shuntenzatu]

Hmm. I was under the impression that diminishing returns meant subsequent taunts were "less" effective, not completely unusable. In PvP for example CC might last 8 seconds then 5 seconds then 2 seconds, etc.

how could a taunt be "less effective"? the mob won't attack you as hard as if full effect? i'm confused :<

[VeeVee]

Taunt has a duration (3 seconds) whereby if you don't exceed the highest threat player by 10% before the debuff expires, the mob will continue attacking the original target.

With Diminishing Returns, this number is reduced to 2 seconds, 1 second, and Immune.

[inyu]

What it really seems to be inmune is to feign death =( It's like Malygos some time ago.

[Fedelesa]

We have had the issue with taunts consistantly the last few weeks, no wipes however. Our solution with just making sure that the other 2-OT's are second and third on threat. We have a DK and a Pallie, they have no issues building a crap load of threat and staying up there so I just let them surpass me (Warrior Tank) so that only I have to taunt. It's worked pretty well so far.

[Biznick]

I had a problem with him taking the taunt too, then after about 3 taunts he finally took it, and then the warrior i was tanking with had to go through the same cycle before i died and he finally picked it up.

[Gribble]

Taunt has a duration (3 seconds) whereby if you don't exceed the highest threat player by 10% before the debuff expires, the mob will continue attacking the original target.

With Diminishing Returns, this number is reduced to 2 seconds, 1 second, and Immune.

This was true back in original WoW (and had some other weird effects in additon regarding when people got put on the target's threat list). In BC it was changed to permanently give you threat.

[Athunt]

This was true back in original WoW (and had some other weird effects in additon regarding when people got put on the target's threat list). In BC it was changed to permanently give you threat.

Yes, but if, after the taunt debuff wears off, someone in melee range has 110% (or ranged at 130%) or more of the tank's threat at the time they WILL still pull aggro, which is what the guy you replied to was referring to.

In pre-TBC the tank had to be sure to get to 110/130% threat before Taunt debuff wore off to retain aggro, they no longer do, someone else has to actively out-threat them for the tank not to retain aggro.

[gibborim]

Hmm. I was under the impression that diminishing returns meant subsequent taunts were "less" effective, not completely unusable. In PvP for example CC might last 8 seconds then 5 seconds then 2 seconds, etc

How exactly can you taunt less effectively?

Try being less taunt happy.

[Shinshiva]

Taunt has a duration (3 seconds) whereby if you don't exceed the highest threat player by 10% before the debuff expires, the mob will continue attacking the original target.

With Diminishing Returns, this number is reduced to 2 seconds, 1 second, and Immune.

Ok, couldn't be more wrong in that first part. Taunt increases your threat to whatever the highest threat count is. After that, if you can't hold aggro, you fail as a tank. (not you personally, dont worry :P)

You are thinking about abilities like challenging roar, which forces all targets to attack the caster for 6 seconds or so, then if you didn't make enough (just like you said) they will go back and attack. 2 very different threat generating moves

[gibborim]

Taunt has a duration (3 seconds) whereby if you don't exceed the highest threat player by 10% before the debuff expires, the mob will continue attacking the original target.

With Diminishing Returns, this number is reduced to 2 seconds, 1 second, and Immune.

Yea, taunt =/= mocking blow. If what you said was true, taunts would be effectively useless 20+ seconds into a fight.

[Saruuhh]

DR (diminishing returns) reset 30 seconds after the last one was applied, so stop spamming taunts and l2threat

[VeeVee]

I know how Taunt works, I guess I didn't word my post correctly. I'll re-write my post to be more accurate:

Taunt increases your threat to match the value of the highest current threat target.
Taunt applies a debuff to the target which forces it to attack you for the duration.
If you fail to exceed the threat of the original threat target for the duration of the Taunt debuff, the mob will continue to attack that target.

Alot of the previous posts speak as though everyone else in the raid stops generating threat the moment you press your taunt key. Simply pressing taunt is not enough to give you "guaranteed aggro."

A great example being that when I have Consecrate and 5 stacks of Vengeance on my Target, and the OT taunts from me, there are often occasions where his attacks are avoided, and thus my ticking DoT's/Auto-swings are enough for me to resume aggro. It becomes increasingly difficult for him to pull aggro from me as he mashes his Taunt every CD, reducing the window of opportunity he requires to generate the extra 10% required to overtake me by 1 second each time.

I also tend to "autopilot" on Thorim and continue with my typical threat rotation whilst the OT taunts during Unbalancing Strikes. My threat output during the Taunt duration far exceeds his, and as a result I've had aggro swap back to me, resulting in some pretty nasty wipes. In situations like these, the MT (or OT as it may be) needs to be conscious of these events and completely halt their threat generation.

Apologies to those who misinterpreted my poorly worded post.

Remember, Taunt gives you 100% of the targets threat.
Not 110% or 130%.