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  1. #21

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    who uses healing touch? at all? apart from the odd ns+ht maaaaaaaybe

    besides, a druid can shapeshift out of slow
    Correlation does not imply causation.

  2. #22

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    The way to beat druid healers always has been and always will be splitting DPS/switching a TON.

    Sheep the ret. Have the rogue rape the druid while mage and priest work on the DK. Between novas and crippling (if he can FoK it) you should be able to stop the DK from doing too much.

    Alternately, you could wait for a FF proc then turn to the ret and rape him in a stun (assuming he already Freedomed the DK when the pally was sheeped) when you sheep the DK.

    EDIT: I forgot to say that as a rogue, you should NEVER kidney shot a ret unless his Freedom is on CD, and that a few lances to nova usually mandate freedom unless the pally is willing to sit for 5+ seconds dispelling. Also, you can always CS silence the pally to make him sit in a stun.

  3. #23

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    Quote Originally Posted by wortuzalian
    I play rogue/mage/lock, so it's a little different, but from a rogue POV I have a suggestion (this has to be done quickly to work):


    Start with sheep on the ret to mitigate their initial burst, sap on DK (if possible, likely not - bloodboil), and spellsteal the pally clean of hots/buffs.


    Your rogue goes for the druid, who will almost always be tree. If your rogue can't get a sap on the druid (which 99% of the time he won't b/c the druid will be tree), have him do this: cheapshot the druid, vanish, slice and dice (40% haste and mad poison procs), sprint to the pally.

    Mage should be playing D vs the DK (who was probably not sapped) while still spellstealing the pally when possible. When the rogue is close to the RET, sheep DK asap and pop all offensive CDs to burst down the ret (who should be nearly clean of buffs/hots). The rogue will open on the ret with a cheap shot so the RET can't free the DK. It will be rogue/mage unleashing on RET, only kidney after freedom.

    During all this, your priest will have been mounted. He will have followed the rogue on his mount toward the druid. When the druid got cheapshot, he would have dismounted near the druid. Cheapshot lasts 4s, the priest will have to fear as soon
    cheapshot ends. If druid doesn't trinket the fear, ret dies. Priest should be dpsing the RET after fear and spamming mass dispell when the HP gets low. When the druid trinkets the fear, he needs to be blinded, and at the end of blind, counterspelled (or CSd then blinded).

    You should score a kill on the pally, and then control the dk with MC/sheep/fear/nova while you kill the druid (priest manaburns).



    So to recap:
    mage sheep RET and steal, then sheep DK burst pally, watch for CS on druid on your turn.
    rogue (saps dk if possible), sap/cheap shot druid, vanish, slice and dice, open burst on pally, watch for blind on druid on your turn.
    priest follows rogue to druid on mount, fears after cheapshot, dps pally (or heal if needed) and spams mass dispell when pally < 40%.

    You have 4s cheapshot + 2s (avg) fear (burn druid's trinket) + 5s blind +4s silence, which is 15 seconds to take down a ret if done correctly (granted your mage will have to be watching the dk as well). You will have about 10s of sheeps on the DK (you can burn your blind here after sheep trinket if he uses magic bubble, that leaves you 11s of cc on the druid only, but it's still enough.

    The last thing to consider is, if at the end of all this, the ret is still not dead, let your mage solo him while your rogue vanishes and stunlocks the druid for another 10s, plus gauge, etc..

    It takes a ton of coordination and precise timing, but if you communicate well, and everyone knows what they are doing you can pull it off. It's like learning a boss fight.


    And then the Ret bubbles... now what?
    70 Warlock - The Scryers
    80 Hunter - Gorefiend
    80 Druid - Gorefiend
    80 Death knight - Gorefiend
    80 Shaman - Gorefiend
    80 Mage - Gorefiend

  4. #24

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rathok
    And then the Ret bubbles... now what?
    you must have missed the part where the mage cleaned him of buffs in the begining and the part where the priest spams mass dispell when the ret hits 40%. That or you're just learning that mass dispell removes bubble.

  5. #25

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    Quote Originally Posted by wortuzalian
    you must have missed the part where the mage cleaned him of buffs in the begining and the part where the priest spams mass dispell when the ret hits 40%. That or you're just learning that mass dispell removes bubble.
    WHAT!??! MASS DISPELL REMOVES BUBBLE!!?!???

    Yes, i know, thank you. I actually didn't read every word so i missed that but i don't think it's particularly realistic to make the assumptions that you are. Lets say its DK/Ret/Druid... DK is going to open with Lichbourne, so he is immune to fear/polymorph/sap and the druid will save the trinket for a NS+heal. The ret is only going to be stunned for about... 2.5 seconds and then HOF the KS. Now you have an uncontrolled Ret+DK+DK pet beating on a rogue. Add in a silence to the mage from the DK+grip/HOJ/Repentance and that pretty much kills the mage's casting damage (he'll prob get a shatter combo but that's only like 5-8k dmg). The priest is definitely going to need to heal the rogue or risk him getting dropped so no more chain casting mass dispell. There is a reason these teams are whores. I'm not saying that i have any better a plan because Lichbourne makes things CRAZY hard against this team. At least you can control the ret...
    70 Warlock - The Scryers
    80 Hunter - Gorefiend
    80 Druid - Gorefiend
    80 Death knight - Gorefiend
    80 Shaman - Gorefiend
    80 Mage - Gorefiend

  6. #26

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    DK burning lichborn when match begins is actually good because you're not trying to catch him in a sheep or fear, and you're assuming sap won't work, I'm saying you sheep the pally in the begining for steals until everyone is in position. The mage kites the DK while the pally is sheeped.

    If the dk already blew LB in the begining, then he should be almost sheepable by the time you open on the pally. He's also shackable by the priest, and blindable by the rogue if he becomes a problem before LB fades. Blind is not a MUST on the druid for it to work.

    If he didn't LB in the begining, he shouldn't know that the mage is switching sheep on him and pre-empt sheep with LB if the mage is using gladius or focus to sheep.


    The strategy hinges on chaining the druid, so everyone needs to be watching the druid trinket. Either the blind or the counterspell needs to hit before the druid can get his NSheal out (2 globals after trinket). I do it all the time watching someone panic trinket a sap and hit with blind before they can get a spell out.

    Last, if the OP is at 2200 he should be able to chain his stuns with the mage and save KS for after freedom. If the pally doesn't freedom and stuns end, he still has crippling and stacks of wound/winters chill on him. The rogue has dismantle, and everyone has trinket.

    I'm not saying it's easy, it's hard and it takes you being able to outplay them on your CC. But it's doable. If you don't think you can control the DK and rather burst him down than the ret, you can try that too. But the DK has alot more defensive moves (frost presence, IBF, anti-magic, etc...) and the priest can't remove them. So you need to be able to keep the pally and the druid CC'd for a lot longer.

  7. #27

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    Quote Originally Posted by wortuzalian
    DK burning lichborn when match begins is actually good because you're not trying to catch him in a sheep or fear, and you're assuming sap won't work, I'm saying you sheep the pally in the begining for steals until everyone is in position. The mage kites the DK while the pally is sheeped.

    If the dk already blew LB in the begining, then he should be almost sheepable by the time you open on the pally. He's also shackable by the priest, and blindable by the rogue if he becomes a problem before LB fades. Blind is not a MUST on the druid for it to work.

    If he didn't LB in the begining, he shouldn't know that the mage is switching sheep on him and pre-empt sheep with LB if the mage is using gladius or focus to sheep.


    The strategy hinges on chaining the druid, so everyone needs to be watching the druid trinket. Either the blind or the counterspell needs to hit before the druid can get his NSheal out (2 globals after trinket). I do it all the time watching someone panic trinket a sap and hit with blind before they can get a spell out.

    Last, if the OP is at 2200 he should be able to chain his stuns with the mage and save KS for after freedom. If the pally doesn't freedom and stuns end, he still has crippling and stacks of wound/winters chill on him. The rogue has dismantle, and everyone has trinket.

    I'm not saying it's easy, it's hard and it takes you being able to outplay them on your CC. But it's doable. If you don't think you can control the DK and rather burst him down than the ret, you can try that too. But the DK has alot more defensive moves (frost presence, IBF, anti-magic, etc...) and the priest can't remove them. So you need to be able to keep the pally and the druid CC'd for a lot longer.
    Couple things: i wasn't thinking about shackles so that would probably be the way to go if the DK pops Lich early.

    The mages stun and KS share DR so that isn't really a very good option on top of the -30% (i think?) passive stun duration reduction from rets. The 5 point KS will only be another 3 seconds. I think the best option there is to pre-silence the Ret so that he can't HOF and eats at least 5-6 seconds of stuns between KS and CS and that also guarantees a shatter combo (once HOF is up he is immune to shatter combos). The rogue just has to be quick on the blind once the druid trinkets the fear. He'll probably get the NS+heal off but that really isn't that much health all things considered. If the first gib doesn't work though you could definitely reset and go for a 2nd attempt without them having trinkets up or a Bubble.

    Just sucks because if they focus the mage then you aren't going to have enough damage to get one of them down and if they focus the rogue then he is going to fcked in the face by a ret+DK. It is a shitty match either way.
    70 Warlock - The Scryers
    80 Hunter - Gorefiend
    80 Druid - Gorefiend
    80 Death knight - Gorefiend
    80 Shaman - Gorefiend
    80 Mage - Gorefiend

  8. #28

    Re: RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xj
    Last season I might have said RMP was OP, but this season I really have no idea what to do against 2xmelee teams.
    Last season RMP had a semi-hard counter in form of SF DK+ aff lock + holy paladin, as well as priests who were far squishier due to inability to cast penance on themselves. This season it has none due to massive paladin and DK nerfs as well as priest buffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xj
    Basically, we 'facerolled' our way to 2200 mmr, but now 90% of the teams are warrior/dk/druid warrior/dk/pala or ret/dk/druid ret/dk/pala.
    Control melee, kill druid. If that fails, reset, control pull melee behind pillar, CS > fear/blind druid and kill melee. If that fails, reset, control melee, kill druid.

    If you are so bad that you don't know how to reset vs 2 melee that has no dispel (those without ret), you are just bloody horrible.
    Ret gives some issues to resetting, but it's not hard to put full poly on him, slap fear > sap on DK and just go behind the nearest pillar. Or just put your rogue to stun whatever melee is still unsheeped while rest are resetting/setting up next nuke. If you really messed it up, and let DK have all of his cooldowns available while you're resetting (should NEVER happen if you're doing it even about right), shiv > sprint/vanish depending on pillar proximity.


    Any druid-backed DK that can keep pressure on your priest means something is badly wrong with your teamplay and positioning. Sheep the paladin, fear the paladin > sheep the DK, pull them apart and kill.
    It really isn't rocket science. The only thought comes to mind is that you're playing the comp defensively (also known as one of the worst mistakes you can make while playing RMP - your main defense is always your pressure and threat of burst kill in addition to superior control).

    Another issue could be bad mage - if you're having problems with cyclone, this is most likely the source of the problem. The main job of the mage in addition to sheep/nova melee control is to always hover the threat of CS over druid's head should he attempt a cyclone cast.

    And holy+ret+dk is just a burn fest on ret. There is no way he can come out of it alive with you chaining control on holy (during stunlock) and spamming mass dispel when he's low. It's just an easy win unless they outgear you by a mile, or DK gets a lucky critline.


    And sorry, nothing in the game can currently survive ret critline. Blizzard design team knows this, and apparently are at a loss how to fix that, since it's pretty frustrating even for rets themselves - they either critline and kill, or don't crit and accomplish nothing. Mostly RNG based kills aren't fun for anyone in a long run.


    All in all, RMP is hard counter for war-dk-druid and soft counter for ret/dk/druid and ret/dk/pala.

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