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  1. #1

    Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    First post!!

    Biggest question ever.. What should i go for?? Mp5 or Spirit. Is there any difference from PvP and PvE??

    /thanks in advance

  2. #2

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    spirit ofc lol

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Spirit is better than mp5, but you shouldnt be going out of your way to take it as a stat.

    5069-5224-8275 Pokemon Friend Safari - Ice: Lapras / Snorunt / Sneasel

  4. #4

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    mp5 in pvp, in pve...dont know
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Tixwi

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Doomhammer&n=Mnem%C3%AEc

  5. #5

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    i was more thinking... Choosing from a item witch has MP5 and one with spirit. And the other stats are practicular the same.. im more into PvP so

  6. #6

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by discatrix
    First post!!

    Biggest question ever.. What should i go for?? Mp5 or Spirit. Is there any difference from PvP and PvE??

    /thanks in advance
    In a chain-casting situation, MP5 offers more value in its itemization than Spirit. And as Disc, you're rarely if ever going 5 seconds without casting.

    Key words here are "go for." In PVE, neither - just happily accept either when they appear on gear, and you'll be fine (same for socketing - Int and SP are your key stats for yellow and red, and if the socket bonus by filling a blue socket is worthwhile - or you need a blue for the meta - get a SP/Stam or Int/Stam gem to meet it). Your regen primarily comes from your massive mana pool in the form of rapture, replenishment, and other intermittent tools (HoH, SF, MT) that restore % of total mana.

    In PVP, MP5 is again generally better than spirit, though cloth arena gear is all spirit-based. If you're able to get away from casting for > 5 seconds, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to hope you can get away long enough to sit and drink.

    Quote Originally Posted by discatrix
    i was more thinking... Choosing from a item witch has MP5 and one with spirit. And the other stats are practicular the same.. im more into PvP so
    Depending on how reliably you can (and your partner can enable you to) get away to drink, don't discount putting in some crit-based gear. Properly geared/played, a Divine Aegis build can be very effective. Especially against MS teams.
    Bigslick (13/14H)
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  7. #7

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    My point of view. With replenishment being a % of your total mana, rapture, and disc having a large mana pool to boot I always go mp5. It suits my personal play style.

  8. #8

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Menotyou
    My point of view. With replenishment being a % of your total mana, rapture, and disc having a large mana pool to boot I always go mp5. It suits my personal play style.
    Because mp5 affects Replenishment and rapture, amirite?

    Sigh.

    Discipline does tend to favor mp5 over Spirit, this is true. But with 6% bonus from Enlightenment and a Blessing of Kings, the playground does even out quite a bit after 3.1 (which has been out for forever already).

    Also, if you have a chance to drink or relax during a CC (it happens. It's rare, but it does) that Spirit will be twice as efficient as mp5 during the same time frame.
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  9. #9

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos-
    Spirit is better than mp5, but you shouldnt be going out of your way to take it as a stat.
    wat

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by qwertyk
    wat
    (dont gem or chant spirit)

    5069-5224-8275 Pokemon Friend Safari - Ice: Lapras / Snorunt / Sneasel

  11. #11

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by discatrix
    First post!!

    Biggest question ever.. What should i go for?? Mp5 or Spirit. Is there any difference from PvP and PvE??

    /thanks in advance
    For PvE: Gem INT. INT gives you crit, mana pool, Mp5, and greater returns on replenishment. Because you will hardly ever, if at all, break the 5second rule as Disco, Mp5 and Spirit are compared straight up.

    If a Spirit item will give you more while casting regen (after talents and kings) than an Mp5 item, the Spirit item is better. I suggest grabbing a mod that calculates such things automatically for you.

    That being said, your not a spirit based caster. In fact, you are now one of the only cloth wearing specs that does not have a spirit coefficient beyond meditation. If a spirit item drops, and its a marginal upgrade from your Mp5 item, think about your fellow clothies before you hit the /roll,dkp, etc. button.

  12. #12
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    if you are disc, IMO spirit will benefit you far more than mp5 will.

    if you have a lot of int as disc then your regen from spirit will be far more than it would be from mp5. i have ~26.5k mana raid buffed since i regemmed to SP gems in all red sockets (instead of 9sp 8 int) which only lost me 4-5 of those gems, not a big deal. 80 spirit (Using The Lifebinder as a reference) give me almost 30mp5, half that (~what ulduar rings have) will give me ~15mp5, 5 less than the highest mp5 ring you can get in game atm. to me, this is a negligible stat, as either way (with meditation) you will be getting mana while casting, however spirit has a much large benefit when not casting than does mp5.

    it is all down to personal preference, no one is better than the other, but I like having the regen option when out of combat (between mimiron phases for example) that will give back just a little more mana than the mp5 would.

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  13. #13

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    Because mp5 affects Replenishment and rapture, amirite?

    Sigh.

    Discipline does tend to favor mp5 over Spirit, this is true. But with 6% bonus from Enlightenment and a Blessing of Kings, the playground does even out quite a bit after 3.1 (which has been out for forever already).

    Also, if you have a chance to drink or relax during a CC (it happens. It's rare, but it does) that Spirit will be twice as efficient as mp5 during the same time frame.
    Sigh.

    I guess I should of specified for all the old trolls that run around here. I figured people would of understood I was implying PvE vice PvP.

  14. #14

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex
    For PvE: Gem INT. INT gives you crit, mana pool, Mp5, and greater returns on replenishment. Because you will hardly ever, if at all, break the 5second rule as Disco, Mp5 and Spirit are compared straight up.

    If a Spirit item will give you more while casting regen (after talents and kings) than an Mp5 item, the Spirit item is better. I suggest grabbing a mod that calculates such things automatically for you.

    That being said, your not a spirit based caster. In fact, you are now one of the only cloth wearing specs that does not have a spirit coefficient beyond meditation. If a spirit item drops, and its a marginal upgrade from your Mp5 item, think about your fellow clothies before you hit the /roll,dkp, etc. button.
    Pretty much sums it up for pve. Go read the disc pve healing thread at EJ. Even w/ kings you are getting greater returns from INT over Spirit.

  15. #15

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Intellect is definitely the way to go.

    Not only does it improve your regen from replenishment, it will also increase your spirit based mana regen.

    If you have to choose spirit or mp5 for a blue gem(meta gem requirement or socket bonus), the mp5 will be better.
    If I'm not mistaken, the 8 intellect/3mp5 gems are the best for this purpose.

    I also heard these gems are over budget on the mp5.. Though that could only be true for those in TBC. I'm actually unsure on this.

  16. #16
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptorg
    Intellect is definitely the way to go.

    Not only does it improve your regen from replenishment, it will also increase your spirit based mana regen.
    Agreeing with the rest of the thread, that obviously Intellect is a better option.

    That said, if you have to go with one or the other, I do think it's pretty much a wash, with a slight edge to MP5. That said, if you have to pick one or the other I'd still prefer Spirit when possible because it allows for more regen in transitions or when moving and it also makes your gear more Holy friendly if you happen to use Holy as your second spec and don't want to carry around tons of different gear.

    If you have to choose spirit or mp5 for a blue gem(meta gem requirement or socket bonus), the mp5 will be better.
    If I'm not mistaken, the 8 intellect/3mp5 gems are the best for this purpose.

    I also heard these gems are over budget on the mp5.. Though that could only be true for those in TBC. I'm actually unsure on this.
    Actually, MP5 costs 2.5x as much in itemization as Intellect or Spirit, so 3 MP5 is actually slightly under-budget when compared the 8 Spirit alternative (the expected MP5 would be 3.2). Also, FWIW, the 19 SP gem is slightly over budget (the expected SP is ~18.6) while the 9 SP Orange/Purple ones are slightly under-budget (the expected SP would be ~9.3), so I avoid using any of the latter.

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    so to turn this into a flame war, you would avoid 9sp 8int and go for 16 int in a yellow socket if the socket bonus were useful?

    "I'm glad you play better than you read/post on forums." -Ninety
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  18. #18

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll
    so to turn this into a flame war, you would avoid 9sp 8int and go for 16 int in a yellow socket if the socket bonus were useful?
    Yes. Int is directly better than spirit.
    I'm your maker, not thy saviour.

  19. #19

    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    I did some quick math regarding this a while ago (as probably a lot of other people have done before me). Here's that post. It's not all that mathy either really.

    Int is usually better than both, but that's a different color gem and usually not on the same enchantment-slots etc, so I wouldn't say that that comparison is as meaningful as spirit to mp5.

    In a raid setting mp5 and spirit are really close. There is a no-brainer level, and that's when you have so much int that it gives you more than 1 mana-per-five while casting out of the amount of spirit that 1 pure mp5 would "buy" you. That level is 1700 int for gear (and enchants probably), and 1500 int for gems due to rounding errors. Thanks to the five second rule spirit is still easily competative at a hundred or a few hundred int below the no-brainer level, depending on encounter and playstyle and all that stuff. I prefer spirit myself, and especially on gems then.

    For PvP you just don't have enough int to fuel your spirit (and generally no Blessing of Kings buff). Mp5 is probably quite a safe bet there.

  20. #20
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Disc ... mp5 or spirit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Trollpatrol
    Yes. Int is directly better than spirit.
    spellpower, not spirit.

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