xp from pvp?

[Deleted]

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php

Thats a win-lose statistic, which is driven by a gold seller. First of all, it does not show the number of pvp twinks in lower brackets, it just shows userlists and wins and losses. Second, it is driven by a third party company, and not blizzard itself. Third, theres no summary of pvp twink population. You need the last one to give prove.

Or would you accept a statistic which would be a big pile of straw (win-lose-statistic), and you would have to find a piece of shit (pvp twinks) in it?

Your argumentation ist useless. And its no proof for your experience.

The only argument that counts is your personal experience, but i can counter that simply by saying:

In my experience, the lower brackets are mainly used by normal players, which act as cannon fodder for some pvp twinks.

[nalle]

They've said that they wont force xp gain in bg's, if they ever implement bg leveling it will be in the way of turning in either honor/bg marks or some other kind of repeatable quests.

[tommy0guns]

Thats a win-lose statistic, which is driven by a gold seller. First of all, it does not show the number of pvp twinks in lower brackets, it just shows userlists and wins and losses. Second, it is driven by a third party company, and not blizzard itself. Third, theres no summary of pvp twink population. You need the last one to give prove.

Or would you accept a statistic which would be a big pile of straw (win-lose-statistic), and you would have to find a piece of shit (pvp twinks) in it?

Your argumentation ist useless. And its no proof for your experience.

The only argument that counts is your personal experience, but i can counter that simply by saying:

In my experience, the lower brackets are mainly used by normal players, which act as cannon fodder for some pvp twinks.

what exactly is a normal player?

here's some more to munch on:
http://twinkinfo.com/2009/01/twink-s...abard-winners/

its funny how the % of twinks in the survey correlates to the # of BGs played from Warcraftrealms in each bracket(sadly 69 and 79 not included tho...DKs playground!).

btw, regardless of who sponsors Warcraftrealms.com, it is still unbiased info.

[Deleted]

I hope it's forced on every little twink out there.

Being a twink is like a 35 year old going back to first grade to be the smartest kid in class, and then bragging about it.

^This.

[Deleted]

what exactly is a normal player?

here's some more to munch on:
http://twinkinfo.com/2009/01/twink-s...abard-winners/

its funny how the % of twinks in the survey correlates to the # of BGs played from Warcraftrealms in each bracket(sadly 69 and 79 not included tho...DKs playground!).

Well, its a survey of 972 players. Thats a very small amount of players, i would say, compared to the playerbase.

Lets take a look at some of the answers:

Age, for example:

* Under 13 - 8 Votes(0%)
* 14-17 - 373 Votes(38%)
* 18-21 - 311 Votes(32%)
* 22-29 - 187 Votes(19%)
* 30-39 - 69 Votes(7%)
* 40+ - 23 Votes(2%)

pvp twinking is a kiddie-sport, as it seems.

and "what is the most important in battlegrounds"

* Capping Flags - 206 Votes(21%)
* Escorting the flag carrier - 192 Votes(19%)
* Topping the healing chart - 45 Votes(4%)
* Getting the most KBs - 62 Votes(6%)
* No Dying - 92 Votes(9%)
* 1-shotting some level 10 - 14 Votes(1%)
* Getting flag returns - 183 Votes(18%)
* Camping Graveyard - 8 Votes(0%)
* Top the Damage Charts - 165 Votes(17%)

The funny thing about this is.. i never see pvp twinks running for flags. So, well, i dont think they told the truth, somehow.

And this one, "would you leave wow if blizzard would do something against twinks":

* Yes - 353 Votes(36%)
* No - 322 Votes(33%)
* Maybe - 294 Votes(30%)

46% would possibly leave.. of the pvp twink players. Well, i dont think, it would be a big loss for the game.

[Trollpatrol]

I can't understand why the twinks enjoy it.

Because in these brackets, they're capable of outgearing the competition so badly that it doesn't matter how f**king terrible they are, they still win.

[TechSupport]

I love all the twink hate. Keep complaining while you get your face smashed in.

Also, can you have that kind of fun at 80? Not really. Twinking requires minimal time investment and you get to destroy everything in your path. So much more fun than PvP at level 80.

[Exerci]

Twinking is simply a natural consequence of the fact that you are able to mail items and money between different characters on your account. Over time Blizz has struck a reasonable compromise by placing level restrictions on enchants, causing certain item augmentations to make the item soulbound, putting level minimums on prof levels, etc. If you're inclined to QQ about twinks, then I would recommend thinking twice the next time you mail money, items, or mats from a higher-level toon to an alt that you're levelling or ask a guildie to run you through a lower-level instance, because you too are enjoying an "unfair" advantage of the same nature.

Yes, I do know how it just simply breaks your game experience to know that my level 12 huntard alt was run through Wailing Caverns, I know how that simply made you fed up with this badly made part of the game.

So, I hate leveling, so I lolled my hunter into a BG to spend some time pewpewing at people. What do I see? A mage. The first thing I note is that he has thrice my health. So I figure I'm probably not going to live through this one. The mage proceeds to make mincemeat of me (two-shot), my bg group, and pretty much proceeds to corpsecamp us all.

Saying that twinking requires skill is a truth with modifications. Yes, it requires skill, when you're fighting another twink. When you're not fighting another twink, it's pretty much just roflstomping other players who play this game for fun.

Imagine playing a match of basketball just to have some fun. Some guy around your own age comes in and wants to play for fun with you. However, he has boots that allow him to pretty much just jump over you and directly dunk whenever he feels like it. He also has bought some expensive contact lenses giving him strong enough dynamic visual acuity that he could see exactly how you moved the ball and block every single move. Not because he's skilled, he just has equipment that allows him to completely bypass the skill part.

battlegrounds are like, 80% the normal kid and then 20% Cyborg Kid running around.

[TechSupport]

it's pretty much just roflstomping other players

That's the point. It is so much fun to be able to completely dominate anyone and everyone you fight.

[Beaavis]

I love all the twink hate. Keep complaining while you get your face smashed in.

Also, can you have that kind of fun at 80? Not really. Twinking requires minimal time investment and you get to destroy everything in your path. So much more fun than PvP at level 80.

How do i post as a Guest?

[Denisé]

A great sollution would be doing it like Arena. You can either join for Skirmish (which doesnt give XP) or Rated (which does give XP). In that way players wanting to level through BGs, wont have to deal with Twinks at all. Except those deciding to level.

I would say that this might work.

Edit: AND all of you twinks saying that you like facing other twinks, you can now do it all day long. I just wonder if it would make you stop playing on your twink and if it does, you proved that you are full of crap.

[ezay]

All I can say about twinks is, Ive never met a twink that's good in any way at max level pvp, thus they want to feel OP and they make a twink.

Yeaaah, right, because you know the main character of every twink you've faced.

[Karr]

Why Twinking Happens
Hey rym, deja vu old friend!

Here are a few unreported things about why its fun to be a twink, observations of the twinking play style, and how it can help WoW's economy:

The Fun in Building a Twink & Learning About Classes:

Don't forget that people like making twinks because its fun trying to actually build your twink in the first place. Its kind of like putting together a model airplane or your building your own custom computer. There is something rewarding about the unique process of gearing a twink after reading strategy guides or actively talking with other twinks. In some cases you have to do quests dead, plan your EXP, avoid rested EXP, run higher level instances, get expensive enchants and max out professions like engineering (its one of the few places you get to use early dynamite, stun bombs, nets, death rays, and explosive sheep to great surprise and effect to your enemies) and first-aid. All of the other profession bonuses were nerfed recently.

I'd also like to add that you can make a twink to use it as a way to study the class mechanics of another class, and perhaps how to counter one. Are rogues bothering you? Why not play one and find out how their basic stun mechanics / stealth works to better combat them with your main or other twinks? First hand experience can be more advantageous compared to say just reading something.

Relative Accessibility; Low Bracket PVP vs. PVP @ 80:

First things first, you need to get from 1-80. Right off the bat that can be a giant turn-off to those who already have several max level characters or a platoon of alts. Maybe they just want to experience a specific class but not grind to 80 to do it in PVP/BG. So that right there is one reason why people might stop for some indefinite period of time in a sub-80 bracket. That is directly related to its accessibility relative to getting to level 80.

Second, and this is a major reason in the accessibility argument. One has to realize that the there is a long gear grind after 80. The longer the critical threshold of a server community has been at 80 and doing all of the post-80 content, the greater the gear gap is.

This is highly present in level 80 Arena/Battlegrounds. We are now in Season VI, where Furious is available from Emalon and Arena Rating, and Deadly is available from Emblems of Conquest (among other areas). Generally speaking, for someone interested in just getting into the action after newly dinging 80 they have to jump through a myriad of hoops: 5-man, 5-man heroic, 10-man raids, 25-man entry raids, 25-man progression, battleground honor grind, Wintergrasp battles, fielding a moderate/high Arena rating, etc.

Granted, they might not take that exact path (purely painting a macroscopic picture), but that is what the highest plateau of players may have done with their 80 mains. Its going to take a long time for a newly-dinged 80 to play catch-up in either PVE/PVP gear to stand toe-to-toe in BG/Arena.

Stopping at a low bracket is a gaming choice made by the player to perhaps pursue the adrenaline of PVP/BG without having to grind so much gear at 80. They know they can buy a few pieces from the AH, get 4-5 pieces from WSG/AB tokens, and maybe run a few instances (5-man or a 1 high level), and slap some post-3.1 nerfed enchants on your gear (open to all). Relative accessibility is the highlighted term here. The critical path to reach a “geared” low-bracket character is quicker then getting through the critical path of a competitive 80 PVP/BG/Arena character.

Full disclosure: I have an 80 rogue main geared with Furious/Deadly/Ulduar, a 79 SV hunter twink (lots of fun keeping the DK population in check, and I avoid having to grind out all the 80 content again), a 49 retadin, a 39 disc priest. I enjoy all the brackets for what they are worth, I just choose to only do lvl-80 on one character and have some other selective brackets to PVP in. I avoid having to get to 80 on each of them and gear them out nail and tooth, that takes time and not everyone has that time available. "Casual" on time, "Hardcore" on skill; thats the principle.

Why Twinking helps the sub-80 AH Economy:

In addition, it gives low level players a way to "get back" (if it bothered "them" in the first place) at twinks because the gear they actively find can be thrown up on the AH for exorbitant prices - Silvershell Leggings, Robes of the Magi, The Green Tower, Staff of Jordan, Underworld Bands, Executioner's Axe, Pendulum of Doom, etc. There is an expensive economy revolving around twink gear, and people who study twinks can corner select 29/39/49 (etc.) markets (no, they are not Chinese gold farmers rym). I would say with great certainty that first timers will not be privy to such information, but veteran players would know about these niche markets and capitalize on its potential returns.

Twink Conventions - Why its not as bad as it is made to sound:

Interestingly enough, some battle groups have an honor code for twinks. Its usually considered bad form for a twink to actively seek out non-twinks or camp a GY during a BG (kill padding). Twinks usually are built to actively engage other twinks and premades from twink guilds (Battlegroup rivalry via the forums, and Who's who discussions of mains to twinks). Inevitably, low bracket level players queue up and get annihilated. But, they may also get annihilated by low-level better skilled players, max bracket non-twinks, casual twinks (not the whole nine yards), and the real elite twinks. Its all a food chain in that respect. Also, it builds a unique culture for mentorship as newcomers to the game actively engage in discussion with twinks for advice, gearing, and combat play styles of their same classes. Twink and non-twinks of the same faction can learn to work together. So it helps fuel teamwork and sticking together; rather than animosity. Non-twinks can complete objectives, kill non-twinks, provide support/DPS/heals, and in numbers attack/CC twinks. Remember, twinks can still be CC'ed and interrupted at the worst times. In a lot of ways, non-twinks learn a lot of early requirements of successful late-game WSG/AB from twinks or working together.

Recent Gameplay Changes: Nerfing of Selective Enchants:

In 3.1.0 you had the nerf to the big enchants that gargner a lot of the stigma associated with twinks. Thankfully, these have been removed and about 800-1000 HP was diminished from all twinks in the patch. There are no longer the level 70 PVP shoulder enchants, libram enchants, or leatherworking armor kits on leggings available to low-level brackets.

It also suddenly changed the standardized BiS shoulders and pants for most brackets now. So in essence the combat has become more leveled (HP-wise), and the concept behind building the "best twink" still remains. The enchant gains will be smaller, that's for sure (it will hit 19's the hardest, a bracket I don't play in - I do 39/49). It will also make fun undiscovered mechanics of the game lost in time forever: head libram enchants, Naxx shoulder enchants, and the Zanadalar shoulder enchants. In a sense, they won't be actively coveted much any more unless you are in the 59 or 69 brackets. Warlocks, Priests, Mages, Druids (and so on) will not be able to stack spell power as easily; which might hurt them compared to Rogues, Hunters, and Warriors. It may also put more emphasis on better healing support, though healing was pretty standard to begin with with twink healers and non-healers (WSG flag runners, holding a AB node). If anything, it will make twinking more accessible to those looking to actually explore this unintended aspect of the game and its communities.

Optional Leveling in Battlegrounds & Gear Equalizer Suggestion:

I think this can be a good idea, especially since they are not forcing a niche community to be closed based on the knee-jerk reaction of others.

Big picture, it would be very attractive if they added a gladiator arena into the game where the gear was already on your characters. Everyone was equal gear-wise/level-wise, or you had the equal option to outfit yourself with what you choose from an armory based upon options available at your level. Blizzard would obviously have a pre-determined armory of iLevels for our gladiators. Once you had your talents and gear assembled you could save that setup and queue for gladiator arena. Obviously some programming and UI development is in order for such a new gameplay venue.

Once you were setup, all you had to worry about was your skill and execution. Think of it like Arena and Battlegrounds combined with zero time needed to gear yourself out. You playing PVP for just the PVP: things like execution of your abilities, countering abilities, CC trains, switches, focuses, interrupts, mental memory of key bindings, teamwork, LOS-blocking, VOIP communication, etc. Gear isn't part of the equation. You just play the game. Ultimately, I would take something like the above over twinking; but that venue is not available (except sometimes on PTR).

One advocates take on "why is it entertaining?":

All in all, twinking is a fun aspect of the game I've found and enjoyed - and recommend it to others to give a try. Depending on how active your twinks in your bracket are, the lower level PVP will be entertaining. However, if there are not many twinks; slaughtering low levels in the bracket that are non-twinks does get boring after awhile. A few games of being 37 to 4 and you'll park your twink to collect dust. Its an artificial satisfaction mowing down non-twinks (and as I said earlier, its frowned upon by same faction twinkers), but get a game with a mix and you'll be finding it very exciting. Its definitely something to do when your locked out of your raids for the week or waiting for new content to come along.

The Bottom Line - A Fresh Perspective:

The stereotypes that plague this thread are just that; short-sighted and blinded by damaging populism for what from others might seem at first unconventional. I welcome others to explore the other dimensions of twinking, and not limit it to bland accusations but see it as a different gameplay niche that has an active and supportive community that is open to newcomers and mutual understanding. After all, who says you cant own at 80 PVP on a good Arena team, beaten Yogg'Saron and some hard-modes, and have a few twinks to toy around with? Its your choice, the gamer. Do it all.

[Wardley]

So, now that the full details of XP from BG is out, looks like they've worked it all out pretty well

# Players who do not wish to gain experience through PvP can visit Behsten in Stormwind or Slahtz in Orgrimmar - both located near the Battlemasters in either city - and turn off all experience accumulation for the cost of 10 gold.
# Disabling experience gains will prevent a player from gaining experience through any means available in the game.
# Players with experience gains turned off who compete in Battlegrounds will face off only against other players with experience gains turned off.

Basically - you'll have your twinks, who will turn off XP and therefore will only face others who have also turned off XP (ie - other twinks) and you'll have everyone else only facing those who do want XP (non-twinks).

[Karr]

Yep, everyone wins. People can get the best of both worlds.
Not bad, I guess this thread is finished.

[Crune]

Thread creator is a prophet.

I wonder how much honor/marks i will have by the time i can buy the next set of pvp gear.

[hehehe]

if the exp and honor is high enough people can lvl through bgs and have a full pvp set at 80 since u can buy the gear before 80 (honor cap is low XD)

[anyaka21]

Anyone see the South Park episode with the model car races, and Kyle's gets the stolen power source thing that goes warp drive?

Well, that's a twink. And no, level 19's are not about learning your class. It's about wtfpwning people. Most of your talents haven't happened yet, thus no real learning curve. You have 2 or 3 good talents, end of story.

What will be interesting though, are the upgrades certain classes get, like ghostwolf, and I think cheetah form, and how those will play out in twink pvp.

[Deleted]

Hey rym, deja vu old friend!

Hello. Its no deja vu, because there is a better end of it this time. After reading patch notes for 3.2.

I hope twinks will find their fun against other twinks. As long leveling alts dont need to be their cannon fodder.

Now its time for the twinks to show up real skill against other pvp twinks. And with patch 3.2, there is nothing bad about pvp twinking anymore. You face your likes. And dont force others to be your victims.

So your sport becomes flawless without ethical concerns.

[Karr]

Hello. Its no deja vu, because there is a better end of it this time. After reading patch notes for 3.2.

I hope twinks will find their fun against other twinks. As long leveling alts dont need to be their cannon fodder.

Now its time for the twinks to show up real skill against other pvp twinks. And with patch 3.2, there is nothing bad about pvp twinking anymore. You face your likes. And dont force others to be your victims.

So your sport becomes flawless without ethical concerns.

Indeed, looking forward to it. I'm quite excited!!
Though, I hope they combine all the Battlegroups for sub-80 brackets that have EXP off.