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  1. #1

    disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Hi priests, priestesses and priestlings

    I've specced discipline recently, but I mostly play the daily heroic dungeon in pugs (yes I know, it sucks), and I've realized that I use PoH and renew alot (and in a lesser extent GH).
    I've also realized that I don't use neither Inner Focus, Power Infusion nor Pain Supression at all (lies, I love to run through Dalaran while levitating and in flames), so I was wondering if there is kind of a spec, that allows me to keep being discipline but gives me some party-healing power (stupid melees aggro-stralers) that fits better to 5-man content.

    maybe something like this?

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9947

    My profile:
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...+Filo+Plateado

    PS: I've quitted playing twice since WotLK release and I use to raid less than once a week or so and in shadowform, so don't expect my gear to be top-notch, but any advise will be appreciated, specially gem-wise


  2. #2

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    If you don't use your tree's most powerful cds then that's your problem.

    PI on your caster DPS whenever it's up. Consider a macro like /cast [target=(name)] Power Infusion

    PS is great oshit button, and you'll need it if you're doing heroics with PuG tanks.

    IF when you PoH, since you did say you cast it a lot, right?


    Gem Int. Find Gear that gives you Int>Sp>Crit>Haste>Spirit


    The spec that Armory is showing you with is perfect. Don't change it.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    What the poster before me said.
    Plus, Borrowed Time + Prayer of Healing = awesome group heal
    And shielding 5 people before they get damage = awesome group heal
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  4. #4

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    use sheild more with no gcd it is close to a 1 sec gcd after it is hasted and is very powerful. even with 2k spell power it blocks about 6k dmg and returns mana and cannot overheal unless the person does not take damage for 30 secs. also cast pom on tank on cd for aoe heals you should rarely need poh in heroics.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    First, to agree with what's been said already, you probably don't use PI and PS because you're not used to using them. Once you get used to it, your tank and DPS will love you that much mroe for them.

    For more specific advice, the Renew talent just isn't worth it. Yes, it's instant, but if you need an instant cast, cast PWS. If you need healing, FH is more efficient (unless every tick of Renew hits) and it all lands in 1.5s (without accounting for Haste), while Renew doesn't even begin to help until 3s later. Now, Renew is still useful if you know someone will have plenty of time to heal up, like between pulls, or if you know they'll take some steady damage, but even in that case, PWS is probably better.

    I also don't think you can really give up Aspiration either. Not only does it affect nifty CDs like PI and PS, it also reduces the cooldown on your best heal, Penance. With the glyph, you have a 6.4s CD, and it's just an awesome spell.

    So, if you want a 5-man spec, I'd say you could probably keep Healing Focus, but Improved Renew and Improved Healing are not worth it over PI, PS, and Aspiration.

    And really, if your DPS are over-aggroing to the point that a PWS, maybe followed by a FH isn't enough to keep them alive... well, they deserve to die.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    On that note, DPS dying because of aggro is NEVER the healers fault, in 90% the DPSers fault, and otherwise the tanks'.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  7. #7

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    If you have trouble keeping your groups alive with Discipline you're doing something wrong.

    Even with mediocre gear (blues) you should have no issues - neither with lack of mana nor people dieing. Unlike Holy, which requires a certain level of gear to work properly (i.e. mana regeneration), Discipline excels even at lower equipment levels.

    Unless your group's DPS is horrible, you should never run out of mana in boss fights. You should also be able to complete an average Heroic without having to drink more than a few times.

    Your main tools are Power Word: Shield, Prayer of Mending, Flash Heal and Penance. If you pre-shield your DPS in situations with predictable damage, you probably won't have to heal them at all. Shield, Flash Heal and Penance should be more than enough to keep every kind of tank alive. And if you need to react quickly to group-wide damage, well, there's still Prayer of Healing. Throw a PoM as often as possible - its "fire and forget"-mechanic will let you focus your healing on more important targets while still contributing a resonable amount of healing done.

    Concerning gear - take what you can get. Unless it has loads of spirit, which is almost worthless for you. Haste is nice to have, but Spell Power, Crit and especially Intellect are the way to go.

  8. #8

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pagefault


    I've specced discipline recently, but I mostly play the daily heroic dungeon in pugs (yes I know, it sucks), and I've realized that I use PoH and renew alot (and in a lesser extent GH).
    I've also realized that I don't use neither Inner Focus, Power Infusion nor Pain Supression at all (lies, I love to run through Dalaran while levitating and in flames), so I was wondering if there is kind of a spec, that allows me to keep being discipline but gives me some party-healing power (stupid melees aggro-stralers) that fits better to 5-man content.

    You should always have PoM on CD, which usually takes care of the group to some extent. As Zeuq said, Aspiration is huge and you should utilize it to its fullest. Sometimes if the group is taking heavy damage I cast Power Infuson on myself and toss out Shield+PoH combos to get hasted party heals up as quickly as possibly. Pain Suppression coupled with Hymn of Hope is great for when you want to buy a few seconds away from healing to regen some mana, follow it up with a Shadowfiend. It's generally accepted that Disc priests are better at spot-healing than raid healing and as such, PWS + Hasted penance = Hasted FH has enough HPS to bring up/top off most dps who're dipping low.

  9. #9

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    haste is good til 7-8 percent then you will be at gcd with flash and instants when hasted. crit is good also but when you start raiding it will come naturally and has dr around 40 percent which isnt hard to hit on single target. my advice is worry about int until you hit 22k unbuffeed the gem purely spell power.

  10. #10

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Shockk is 100% correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shockk
    Your main tools are Power Word: Shield, Prayer of Mending, Flash Heal and Penance.
    However earlier posts (by others) are wrong. Move your 3 talent points from Divine Fury into Improved Renew.

    Divine Fury helps on Smite, Holy Fire, Heal and Greater Heal. These are 4 spells that you never want to cast as a disc priest in a heroic or raid run. But you do use renew in Malygos, Loatheb and for locks (life tapping). So the choice is between spells you never use and one spell you occasionally use.

    I like the Glyph of Penance more than the Glyph of Holy Nova. Because penance is your main healing spell. Holy Nova is very situational.

  11. #11

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    why do some of you mention raiding in your talent choice suggestions, when he clearly said he doesnt raid? some people, like myself, just dont raid for a variety of reasons. we arent likely to *start* raiding when we acquire good enough heroic blues, we just arent going to raid, period. The 5-man heroic scene IS end game for lots of people, i dont think many forum goers, or even blizz, really understand this...

  12. #12
    I am Murloc!
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    It depends a bit on the group and dungeon. Normally I don't have to AoE heal at all in a heroic, and can heal using instance abilities (Shield, PoM, Renew), an Penance.

    Pain Suppression is always nice for when a DPS player pulled aggro. That's what it's for in heroics! (Since it also have a slight threat-drop).

    And if you run with casters, macro Power Infusion to just keep spamming it on someone, your focus target or similar. The cooldown is ridiculous low.

  13. #13
    Dreadlord
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Quote Originally Posted by rboa
    Shockk is 100% correct.
    However earlier posts (by others) are wrong. Move your 3 talent points from Divine Fury into Improved Renew.

    Divine Fury helps on Smite, Holy Fire, Heal and Greater Heal. These are 4 spells that you never want to cast as a disc priest in a heroic or raid run. But you do use renew in Malygos, Loatheb and for locks (life tapping). So the choice is between spells you never use and one spell you occasionally use.

    I like the Glyph of Penance more than the Glyph of Holy Nova. Because penance is your main healing spell. Holy Nova is very situational.
    This argument isn't really relevant to this thread, but I'll tell you why I think Divine Fury is a better use of those points. With 5/5 Divine Fury and a BT buff, without accounting for Haste, GH is a 2s cast. So in cases where you have Penance on CD or are saving it (say for Fusion Punch, Plasma Blast, etc.), you still have a higher HPS option than FH. Hell, even without the BT buff, GH is higher HPS than FH, the only real drawback is that it's more mana intensive, but there are situations where pure HPS is more important than efficiency, and that's a tool that Divine Fury provides that you wouldn't have without it. Compare that to Imp

    As for your examples, none of those are situations that Improved Renew is even useful. For Malygos, you should be spamming PWS during the Vortex and letting the Holy Priests and Druids handle healing. For Loatheb, Renew is pretty worthless since no heals work for 85% of the fight, but absoprtion mechanics do, so you should be spamming PWS and hitting pre-casted Greater Heals or Prayer of Healings followed by a Penance in the healing phase. And why are you even healing Life Tapping Locks at all? Again, let the Holy Priests, Druids, and random AOE handle it; if you have to heal them, unimproved Renew is more than enough as it is, and a Flash Heal works just fine too.

    And to bring it back on topic, Renew just isn't useful in Heroics as Discipline. You get better throughput and efficiency out of the same GCD on the MT with a FH than with a Renew, and your DPS can get a PWS if you are expecting damage (much like when Holy would use Renew), or you can just FH to get them topped up right away.

  14. #14

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    I have my PoH macroed with Power Infusion and Inner Focus. Also for group healing nothing really beats PW:Shield the lowest then dropping a hasted PoH.

    Also. I think i need to check my macro and make sure I am not burning my Inner Focus on PI and paying for PoH....

    As for Pain Suppression, I use it rarely (that is the idea right?), usually when I KNOW something big is about to happen, as its kinda uninspiring after they are already low.

  15. #15

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Looks like comprehension isn't your strong suit. And based on your comments, neither is healing as a disc priest.

    Read and COMPREHEND the earlier posts. They said the talent spec was "perfect".

    I won't go into it (because you would not understand) but Flash Heals are ALWAYS better than Greater Heal. You might want to study up on this. If you are after HPS, then go holy. Disc uses damage mitigation and heals.

    As for your other comments, they are fail also. During Vortex you can typically only reach a few players (there is a concept of range for heals). Once you shield everyone you can (in a 10 man this my only be 2-3 players) then renews are your only other option. As I said, it is very situational. Again, you need to comprehend "situational".

    Have you ever healed Loatheb? Again, after you shield the couple of players taking damage, the only thing you can do is put a renew on them. This is so during the phase where you can heal, a tick or two of heals happens. This lets you perform a PoH, penance, etc. during the healing phase.

    For the locks life tapping, the OP talked about running heroics. You do not have druids healing you heal in heroics (you would know this if you played the game). And locks should be life tapping for the dmg increase. But again this is situational and therefore beyond your understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    This argument isn't really relevant to this thread, but I'll tell you why I think Divine Fury is a better use of those points. With 5/5 Divine Fury and a BT buff, without accounting for Haste, GH is a 2s cast. So in cases where you have Penance on CD or are saving it (say for Fusion Punch, Plasma Blast, etc.), you still have a higher HPS option than FH. Hell, even without the BT buff, GH is higher HPS than FH, the only real drawback is that it's more mana intensive, but there are situations where pure HPS is more important than efficiency, and that's a tool that Divine Fury provides that you wouldn't have without it. Compare that to Imp

    As for your examples, none of those are situations that Improved Renew is even useful. For Malygos, you should be spamming PWS during the Vortex and letting the Holy Priests and Druids handle healing. For Loatheb, Renew is pretty worthless since no heals work for 85% of the fight, but absoprtion mechanics do, so you should be spamming PWS and hitting pre-casted Greater Heals or Prayer of Healings followed by a Penance in the healing phase. And why are you even healing Life Tapping Locks at all? Again, let the Holy Priests, Druids, and random AOE handle it; if you have to heal them, unimproved Renew is more than enough as it is, and a Flash Heal works just fine too.

    And to bring it back on topic, Renew just isn't useful in Heroics as Discipline. You get better throughput and efficiency out of the same GCD on the MT with a FH than with a Renew, and your DPS can get a PWS if you are expecting damage (much like when Holy would use Renew), or you can just FH to get them topped up right away.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Florentzia's Avatar
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Have someone mention the OPs Gemming?

    I mean Haste + Spirit, that's not so usefull

    Haste comes automaticlly from your gear, and spirit is only mp5, and as a disc i never had mana problems so far.

    OK, for blue sockets there is no gem without spirit or mp5

    so heres my opinion for gemming blue sockets:

    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40092

    also your Waist has no extra Blacksmith socket, buy one an but an 16 int gem or spellpower in that
    German player, sorry for bad grammar.

  17. #17
    Dreadlord
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Quote Originally Posted by rboa
    Looks like comprehension isn't your strong suit. And based on your comments, neither is healing as a disc priest.

    Read and COMPREHEND the earlier posts. They said the talent spec was "perfect".
    Ad hominem attacks, is that what it has to result to when you're failing to support your point? The first use of the word "perfect" in this entire thread is in your post. So, I'd like to see where anyone said anything about a perfect spec in this thread.

    I won't go into it (because you would not understand) but Flash Heals are ALWAYS better than Greater Heal. You might want to study up on this. If you are after HPS, then go holy. Disc uses damage mitigation and heals.
    I never said Greater Heal was better, I was pointing out that it is higher HPS so, like it or not, it's not strictly better, and there are some limited situations where it is useful. Hell, you actually used the word situational when refering to Renew, but you don't see how Greater Heal can be situationally useful as Discipline?

    As for your other comments, they are fail also. During Vortex you can typically only reach a few players (there is a concept of range for heals). Once you shield everyone you can (in a 10 man this my only be 2-3 players) then renews are your only other option. As I said, it is very situational. Again, you need to comprehend "situational".
    Beside the fact that you're moving the Goal Posts here, getting PWS on everyone is plenty for the Vortex. And sure, if you have a PWS on everyone, sure, throw out a couple Renews. Yes, it's a situational use for Renew, but it serves that purpose with or without the three points in Improved Renew. You're talking about a few hundred more healing on a couple people (since you should get the PWSs up first, so you won't have but a few more GCDs for Renew), so you'll still have to be topping people off. IOW, Improved Renew can still serve as a stop gap, but it won't make the difference, with or without Improved Renew, to make it so that you have to top people off without it, but don't need to with it. So, in the end Improved Renew doesn't help at all.

    Meanwhile, in 10-man, especially if you're solo healing it, Greater Heal will see some use. You have to save your Penance for his breath, and sometimes people take more damage than can be topped off with a Flash Heal. That makes it a perfect situation for where 5/5 Divine Fury Greater Heal is situationally useful. Imagine two people get hit with his random target damage for around 9-10k, which means a single FH heal isn't enough to top them off. PWS on target, BT-Hasted GH on another, follow up on the first with a FH, and you still have Penance available for topping off the tank after a Breath. If you did the same thing with FHs, it would take longer to top them off (PWS>GH>FH is 5s, PWS>FH>PWS>FH is 5.4s, PWS>FHx3 or FHx4 is even longer)

    Have you ever healed Loatheb? Again, after you shield the couple of players taking damage, the only thing you can do is put a renew on them. This is so during the phase where you can heal, a tick or two of heals happens. This lets you perform a PoH, penance, etc. during the healing phase.
    Yes, I've healed Loatheb. In fact, I've solo healed it on 10-man, and never used Renew. You'll get exactly 1 tick of Renew in that 3 second window, which makes it HORRIBLY mana inefficient, and it still won't be enough to not require a PoH to top them off. Also, the whole raid generally takes damage during the fight, so you can spam PWS during the 17s no-healing time (plenty of time to get one on every member of a 10-man raid), and then alternate which group you cast pre-cast PoH on, and generally follow up with a Penance on the tank. It's really quite simple to solo heal Loatheb as Discipline, and if you're using Renew in that fight, you're doing it wrong.

    For the locks life tapping, the OP talked about running heroics. You do not have druids healing you heal in heroics (you would know this if you played the game). And locks should be life tapping for the dmg increase. But again this is situational and therefore beyond your understanding.
    Again, moving the goal posts. YOU are the one that gave the raid context, and even when replying to you, I said it wasn't really applicable to this thread. Putting the responsibility on me for poorly constructing your argument without clearly stating a difference in context is intellectually dishonest.

    Even still, Life Tapping Locks don't require Improved Renew. If they're idiots and wait until they're completely OOM before Life Tapping and then get themselves down to 50% health, you cast Flash Heal on them because it is more time and mana efficient and gets them topped up sooner. If they Life Tap Periodically, an unimproved Renew is more than enough to keep them up.


    The whole point of my post, which seems to have been missed in your ire, is that I actually agree that Renew is situaionally useful, but Improved Renew doesn't make it any more useful; it's not useful in situations it wasn't before or topping people off when it wouldn't before. OTOH, 5/5 Divine Fury DOES make Greater Heal situationally useful, even if that situation is uncommon, and thus it adds another tool to your toolbox.

    The other part which hasn't even been addressed is that, even though Healers generally don't DPS, sometimes it's called for, and Divine Fury is useful for that. Of course, that's not a good reason to take it, but when you're comparing two weak talents, it may be something to consider, at least when working on a fight where Healers may be called to throw some DPS. Activating Deconstructor Hard Mode is a good example of that, as is Razorscale ground phase, and tons of Naxx bosses where the healing requirements are so low you might as well shorten the fight (Heigan, Gothik, Thaddius, etc.).

    And beyond all of that, it's still preference. If you think GH is NEVER useful at all, then fine, don't go 5/5 Divine Fury. In fact, why even leave any points there? I've seen plenty of Priests, Discipline and Holy, argue that Spell Warding is useful for working on certain progression bosses. Personally, I don't feel like it helps that much, and I don't have survivability problems that I think might warrant it. So seriously, chill out, and consider that someone else out there might have a differing opinion and substantiable reasons for it.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Florentzia's Avatar
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    For the "should i skill divine fury" argumentation:

    IMO DF is "ok"
    atm i have it to but tomorrow i respec and put the 5 points in spell warding, because thats very usefull on some hardmodes.

    but for heroics its "wayne"
    German player, sorry for bad grammar.

  19. #19

    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    Ad hominem attacks, is that what it has to result to when you're failing to support your point? The first use of the word "perfect" in this entire thread is in your post. So, I'd like to see where anyone said anything about a perfect spec in this thread.
    hehe
    It seems you don't read very well. The word "perfect" was used in the second post... right under the OP. Not only that, the comment is on exactly that - that the spec is "perfect". ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by Proletariat
    The spec that Armory is showing you with is perfect. Don't change it.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord
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    Re: disc in heroic dungeon pugs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessi
    hehe
    It seems you don't read very well. The word "perfect" was used in the second post... right under the OP. Not only that, the comment is on exactly that - that the spec is "perfect". ;D
    Fair enough. I used my browser's built in search function to find perfect when I was on the edit page, and I thought the thread was short enough that all of it was in the topic summary, apparently it was a bad assumption. Either way, the fact that someone else said his spec was perfect does not, in any way, affect my argument in favor of Divine Fury over Improved Renew. Further, his argument is full of ad hominem attacks, which is not only poor form but a logical fallacy.

    So, yeah, sorry for the bad assumption about the length of the topic. Do you have anything constructive to add to the topic?

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