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  1. #21

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    hx9: I don't quite understand how your DPS spread would work out. If you have 2220k DPS on the boss for the first 30 seconds, then that means that the boss drops from 6 million HP to 3.78 million (3780k). 130% of that health (3780 + (0.3)3780) is 4.914 million HP. Now even if you had 2220k DPS going on THAT add, the add could only drop it to 2.694 million health, which then increases your second add's health almost null and voiding the rest of your strategy because every add then has more health (doable with more time). With this new HP of the first add, that means the second split would have 3502200 health, nowhere near the 18902000 health you said it had. Nearly twice that health, actually.

  2. #22

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Tank boss, dps boss.

    Off tank clone, dps boss.

    Tank dies. Wipe up.

    Try again.
    Shoop.

  3. #23

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    WARNING: THIS POST IGNORES THE STUPID 5 HEALERS RULE THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE


    1 healer, 2 tanks, 22 dps.

    Pop Bloodlust and dps cooldowns (~30% DPS increase) and proceed to pull the boss to point 2 on the map.
    22DPS on the boss, 1 tank on the boss as of now.
    5000000-3432000-78000=1490000hp(After 30 seconds of bloodlust)

    Split1 spawns, 1790000hp, the tank is already at the spawn and begins to move the add to point 3 on the map, while all the dps are following.
    12 DPS move to DPS Split1(1790000hp). Lets say there is 4 seconds on bloodlust after moving.
    1790000-249600-10400=1530000hp after 4 seconds
    DPS pops their potions(15% dps increase for 15s)
    1530000-828000-30000=672000(15s with pots)
    672000-528000-22000=122000(11s)

    10 DPS remain on Boss(1490000hp). 10 seconds on bloodlust.
    1490000-520000-26000=944000hp after 10s of Bloodlust.
    944000-800000-20000=124000(Tank left to go to Point1 after 10 seconds while a DK taunts and pops his survival cooldowns for the measly 1.5k hits)after 20s

    Boss dies after 3s
    10 DPS move to Split2

    Split1 dies after 3s
    12 DPS move to Split2

    Split2 has 424000hp. Dies in 4s.

    Game over!

    EDIT: I fail at math. Thought it was 300k per split not 30%!

  4. #24

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Just incase noone of the previous entrys looked into this, you can fit the boss plus FOUR additional spawns with no aura overlapping onto any of the other mobs, you need 5 tanks for this ofcourse.


    I can colour code each ring or whatever if anyone wants it clarified, you can even open it up and copy in your own ring to check my rings arent altered.

    This configuration can exeucted without having an aura touch any mob at any point in the fight exept for the 4 spawn(whose aura will overlap two mobs for a minimal amount of time as he is moved into the corner) as long as you have a tank waiting at the spawn point, which ofcourse you will.

    Too bad if you need to have a sixth spawn, its aura will overlap with three spawns but at this point there will be 15 second left on the enrage timer and you will have killed no adds... hard to believe it would happen.

  5. #25

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    My Character : Boomkin
    Guild I represent : Fall From Heaven

    My guild came up with two scenarios actually both of which i will post.

    1st:

    2 tanks

    5 healers ( all disc priests )

    18 dps

    Start of fight

    1st tank get's a MD, while standing at the enterance. MD rotation guarantees threat while the boss is moving.

    all 5 disc priests pop PI on their casters, increasing DPS by 30%

    all 18 dps go to town.

    13dps x 4k x 30 seconds before new spawn = 60,000 dps x 30 = 1,560,000 dmg
    5dps x 4k * 15 seconds * 20% = 20,000 dps * 15 seconds = 300,000 + 20% = 360,000 dmg
    5dps x 4k * 15 seconds = 20,000 dps * 15 seconds = 300,000 damage
    1tank * 2k * 30 seconds = 60,000 dmg
    1tank * 2k * 25 seconds = 50,000 dmg
    Total damage

    1560000 + 360000 + 300000 + 110000 = 2,330,000 damage done in 30 seconds.

    NEW SPAWN
    Total New Health
    3,029,000

    Heroism / Bloodlust instantly
    18dps * 4k * 30 sec * 30% increase from hero = 72,000dps * 30 seconds = 2,160,000 damage + 30% = 2,808,000 damage
    1tank * 2k * 30 sec * 30% increase from hero = 78,000 damage

    Total damage
    2,886,000

    NEW SPAWN HEALTH
    3,029,000 - 2,886,000 = 143,000

    143,000 + 30% = 185,900

    Rogue Evasion Tank new add.
    Hunter MD + AotC kite

    17dps * 4k *10sec * 30% increase from hero = 68,000dps * 10sec = 680,000 dmg = dead 3rd add.

    Hunter FD's, 2nd add goes back to tank. DPS until dead.

    2nd add dies, all dps 1st add. Encounter defeated.

    LOGIC EXPLINATION

    Every 30 seconds, the NEWEST duplicate's HP is taken into consideration when another duplicate is created.
    If the newest duplicate is dead, the next duplicate will spawn with 30% more health...well, 30% of 0 is still 0, so new spawn
    doesn't happen, or it spawns itself dead.

    In effect, Killing the last spawn keeps additional adds from appearing.
    Words are a wonderful form of communication, but they will never replace kisses and punches. ~Ashleigh Brilliant

  6. #26

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    My Character : Boomkin
    Guild I represent : Fall From Heaven

    2nd :

    GENERAL ASSUMPTIONS:
    Mobs assigned to a tank are impossible to pull off.
    Tanks can do full damage to their offtargets (2k is a little high for tank dps anyways)

    Well anyways, lets get down to the math at of this, assuming infinite time, the raid boss has to be at 3.846ish million to have the clone spawn at 5 million hp. Clones spawns at 30 second intervals.

    DPSfloor = (5000-3846)/30
    = 38.46

    So we need 38.46k dps just to do 0 damage to the boss. 5 people in the raid must be healers.

    Tanks do 2k dps, so a raid of 20 tanks will do sustained damage on the boss.

    Assuming mob dps is normalized at plate (assume tank level) he does 1000-1500 damage per hit. We assume BV of any tank an UD gear level to have a BV of 2000+ so block = full avoidance v1 no aura.

    Prot paladins take 0 damage from 1 boss.

    Since ~40% of an enh shaman is AA and 55% of a rogues is AA and assume after all pre-pull buffs they do 4000 dps.

    2 Prot pally Paladins have the boss 4000 DPS in P1 with 5 healers and rest dps gives us 76k dps.

    Since we're running all rogues and 1 enhance shammy, it is viable to say they will get there in 1 gcd of the activation of the boss.

    [1](.55*.1525*18*4(rogues) +(0.40*0.1525)*4 (shaman)[effect of pot]
    [1] ~= 6.283
    [2](.55*.3*18*4) + (.4*.3*4) [effect of hero]
    [2] ~=12.36

    0-1.5 (3000 damage)
    1.5-26.5 (Haste pot/hero) (76 + [1])*1.3*15) = 1604.5k dmg
    ===============
    Boss0: 3392.5 khp to go

    26.5-30.0 (hero) (76+12.36)*3.5 = 309.26k
    Boss0: 3083.24k
    ===============
    Boss1: 4008.21k
    30.0-40.0 (hero) (74+12.36)* 10 = 863.6k
    40-60 (74)*20 = 1480k

    ===============
    Boss0: 3063.24k
    Boss1: 1664.61k
    Boss2: 2163.99k

    (Rounding on nearest GCD)
    60-88.5 (74)*30 = 2109k
    88.5-90 on 1

    ===============
    B2 -> T0
    Boss0: 3003.24k
    Boss1: 1493.61k
    Boss2: 54.99k
    Boss3: 71.49k

    90-111 B1 dies.
    B2 dies before split due to T0

    ================
    B0: 2337.24k;
    B3: 11.49k
    B4: 14.94k

    120-150 split.

    =============
    B0: 117.24k
    B4: 2.94k
    B5: 4.24k

    =============

    Fight ends at 153.

    12 seconds before enrage. Gimme cake.
    Words are a wonderful form of communication, but they will never replace kisses and punches. ~Ashleigh Brilliant

  7. #27
    The Patient Axlash54's Avatar
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    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Great idea. Should be stickied.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agoonga View Post
    I'm weird in any culture
    If life's a stage, when's the after party?

  8. #28

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Quote Originally Posted by ejams
    WARNING: THIS POST IGNORES THE STUPID 5 HEALERS RULE THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE


    1 healer, 2 tanks, 22 dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsukuni
    Even so 5 healers isnt needed for the first 30 seconds at least, their time could be better spent adding some dps into this, even if four of them do 1k dps for the first 30 seconds thats an extra 120k off the initial bosses health pool

    When the first mimic is spawned it can be tanked so the auras arent touching the other mob, no damage increase, im sure one healer can handle 1k dps on two targets, so the other 4 can still continue to dps.

    Basically my point is why bring 5 healers to have 4 of them stand and do NOTHING for atleast 1 minute of the fight.
    I think the author's reason for "you MUST have 5 healers" is because he wants you to solve this as if it were a riddle instead of "OMG 23 DPS 1 tank 1 healer, 10 feral cats 10 rogues etc. etc."
    Seresu - US, Stormrage
    Seru - US, Stormrage

  9. #29

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    @ Vy

    Chocobos is right, the HP of all mimics is calculated off of the newest copy. You fought well though!


    @ Chocobos

    Very close, but with your calculations, you will be going into the Enrage timer. Raid positioning is also vital, so more info on that will be needed.


    @ OmniscientMoron

    To be honest, you may just have squeezed it in, even though it wasn't intended like that (although very, very damn close). However, there's no mentioning of positioning and at some points you've assumed each copy is in an aura, which is a definite no-no! Therefore not the most logical or efficient way of downing the boss, but pretty damn close.


    @ Mitsukuni

    I should've mentioned this and yes you make a great point about the fact that the healers really don't have anything to do if [Boss] does such little physical damage. The point is, I've not included any "random" abilities that most bosses in WoW do that are specifically aimed at dealing damage to DPS (such as Blizzard, Rockets etc.) - that's due to the fact that I don't want "Healer heals DPS after Blizzard" explanations that pretty much go without saying. Unless an ability/gimmick directly affects the strategy, I won't add them. Instead I add "must include 5 Healers" as a way to say "[Boss] does random AoE attack to DPS, which Healers have to heal through".

    In this particular fight, we will just assume that everyone who's not on the top of the threat table will get inflicted by some random AoE damage that is solely there to give those 5 Healers a job to do. So the rule still stands, 5 Healers is mandatory.


    @ hx9

    Nice try but as Omniscient Moron pointed out, your calculations are a bit off


    @ ejams

    Points for getting the positioning bang on! Unfortunately (and this is my fault) the whole 4k per DPS rule takes all buffs into consideration, so as to not turn everything into a complicated mess (or add to it's messiness!). As explained above the 5 Healer rule is mandatory so another Raid composition will have to be made.


    @ Mitsukuni again

    Damn, you got the positioning absolutely spot on, not only for this battle but you've almost solved my "Hard Mode" conundrum! Both you and Ejams will definitely get a mention when the strat is completely uncovered!


    @ Azshalorah

    Again, totally my fault but all buffs are already calculated and taken into consideration when the rule of Damage Dealers = 4k Dps was made. This means DPS will stay at 4k regardless of pots/buffs/GCD's/Gear etc. This was basically done so that the explanation process wouldn't have a thousand different variables. Another note to add, this boss (or any other) won't require any specific classes much like Blizzard's current design philosophy, so you won't need to worry about that. That being said, great effort!

  10. #30

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Understood about the 5 healer rule now.

    Once the latest spawn dies, do splits stop happening?

    That's what is stopping me from making a real attempt.

  11. #31

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Just for the fun of it, 25 hunters, whichever hunter has aggro pops cheetah and kites the boss while the rest dps, im just going to assume that at one point one of the dps will not be doing the 4k because he is kiting, so i will assume 24 dps for phase 1

    Phase 1:
    1 kiter = 0 dps
    24 hunters = 24*4000*30 seconds = 2,880,000 damage done to boss

    Phase 2, hunter with aggro on boss 1 continues to kite, 24 hunters swap to the spawn, one will be kiting, i will just assume 23 dps ect
    boss 1 had 2,120,000 hp after phase 1
    spawn 1 has 2,120,000*1.3 hp = 2,756,000
    23 hunters = 23*4000*30 = 2,760,000 Spawn 1 dies before 30 seconds, spawns now no longer happen

    24 hunters swap to boss one which as seen above would do 2,880,000 in 30 seconds, therefore making the total time for the boss kill less than 1 minute and 30 seconds.

    That one be one chaotic and interesting raid to watch
    Obviously this would be very unlikely and hard to pull off, but i posted just for the sake of it.

    And now due to Detective's clarification of the 5 healers, this is void, il leave it anyway.

  12. #32

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    I'm waiting for your other bosses to be released Detective Nice work on this boss
    Seresu - US, Stormrage
    Seru - US, Stormrage

  13. #33

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Raid Composition: 2 Tanks
    5 Healers
    17 DPS
    1 DPS (Hunter That Pulls Adds)
    Ok so the main boss has
    5,000,000 Health

    Each DPS is doing 4K a second so 4000*17 = 68,000 DPS.
    5,000,000 / 68K = 74 seconds of constant DPS to kill the boss
    This means that 3 Dupes will have spawned. The Main Tank has 1 healer. The other 4 are on the offtank.

    ALL DPS bar the hunter are on the main boss who has been pulled in the corner. After 30 seconds of DPS the boss is on 2960000.

    FIRST DUPE SPAWNED WITH 3848000 HEALTH.

    Hunter Misdirects the new Dupe to the OffTank. When the tank has him the Hunter is doing 4k DPS, and the tank is doing 2k. So 6k*30 seconds = 180,000 of the boss health. When the new add will spawn it will have 4768400.

    The Main Tank and DPS now have the boss on ~92000. Now if we factor in the Main Tanks DPS we have the boss on 0 in under 60 seconds. All DPS now move onto the add Dupe (which has 3848000) And start DPSing him. The healers swap spots and the Offtank has 1 and the main tank has 4. When the 2nd dupe arrives the hunter misdirects it to the main tank.

    By juggling this combo each dupe and boss is downed in UNDER 2:45. Whenever a dupe dies the DPS and Healers swap again. This means that no aura’s overlap, all dupes go down before they would enrage.


    EDIT: This is the images of where the tanks are. Healers are just within 25yds of the tank and the hunter is in the middel between dupe spawn and Offtank (Hunter is Surv specced so he has 40yd shots)

    [img=http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3580/mystrats.th.jpg]




    EDIT 2: Reasoning
    I have 1 healer on the main tank as there isnt all that much damage being done to him. The other 4 healers are on the offtank incase he has more than one Dupe in him AKA Aura Stack. This Should work fine as the Healers are 3 Pallies, 2 Druids. 2 Pallies + 2 Druids on the Offtank and the remaining paladin is on the main tank.

    If there anything else im missing tell me so i can clear it up




  14. #34

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Just updated my post with new positioning and explanation on the timing issue. .

  15. #35

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    @ ejams

    Here's a snippet from the OP

    Quote Originally Posted by Detective
    Special Note 3: Killing the original <Boss> does not necessarily grant victory. All duplicates must be killed otherwise the newest duplicate will constantly split and create another duplicate after 30 seconds. If the newest duplicate is killed before it splits, then it's the previously newest duplicate that has it's HP taken into consideration for the split. The split timer does not reset, it is always every 30 seconds regardless of whether a duplicate/original is killed or not. The only way to stop the splitting process is to take them out... ALL OF THEM!

    @ Mitsukuni

    Very interesting, I think you've given me a few ideas!


    @ Seresu

    Cheers! This boss turned out to be a lot more epic than I thought, but now I've got a feeling the rest of the bosses won't be on par :-[


    @ FrOsTSh0cK

    A little confusing, but I've got the feeling you've calculated it so that all dupes are always calculated off of the Original's HP. This is not the case, it's the newest Dupe that has its HP taken into consideration during the calculation process of a dupe's HP. Either way, OmniscientMoron has managed to defeat the boss! Nice effort though.



  16. #36

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    As stated above, after many calculations it appears that OmniscientMoron has defeated Patchwerk's Sister!!

    As it turns out, I completely fudged up the Enrage timer and completely overestimated how long it would take to down the boss. After some calculations, it appears 02:30 should've been the correct timer, but I made the mistake and it'd be unfair to change the rules and ask everyone to work it out all over again!

    Well, this is the real strategy I was after (which, is basically in the same jist as OmniscientMoron's description).


    Raid Composition

    20 DPS
    5 Healers

    Reason: The fact that <Boss> does such little physical damage on it's main threat was a clue that a tank was not actually needed in the fight and a DPS could easily tank <boss> or dupes. Of course, if <Boss> ever managed to get into the aura, it's physical damage would jump from 1.5k every 3 seconds to 15k every 1.5 seconds - which would most definitely destroy a DPS with 20k health but would be doable with a 40k tank. The point is however, to make it impossible for <boss> or dupes to ever reach the aura via positioning; if you can do that then there is absolutely no need for a tank - this maximises DPS. Threat isn't an issue, either.


    Combat Log

    Original: 5,000,000

    20 DPS
    Raid DPS: 80k dps

    ! 30 Seconds !

    Original: 2,600,000

    *SPAWNS* Dupe 1: 3,380,000

    ! 60 Seconds !

    19 DPS: 76k dps - On Dupe 1
    1 DPS: 4k dps - On Original

    Original: 2,480,000

    Dupe 1: 1,100,000

    *SPAWNS* Dupe 2: 1,430,000

    - 81 Seconds -

    18 DPS: 72k dps - On Dupe 2
    1 DPS: 4k dps - On Dupe 1
    1 DPS: 4k dps - On Original

    Dupe 2: DEAD

    ! 90 Seconds !

    19 DPS: 76k dps - On Dupe 1
    1 DPS: 4k dps - On Original

    Original: 2,360,000

    Dupe 1: 380,000

    *SPAWNS* Dupe 2a: 494,000

    -97 Seconds-

    18 DPS: 72k dps - on Dupe 2a
    1 DPS: 4k dps - on Dupe 1
    1 DPS: 4k dps - on Original

    Dupe 1: 352,000
    Dupe 2a: DEAD

    -105 Seconds-

    19 DPS: 76k dps - on Dupe 1
    1 DPS: 4k dps - on Original

    Original: 2,300,000
    Dupe 1: DEAD

    ! 120 Seconds !

    20 DPS: 80k - on Original

    Original: Dead


    CONGRATS! (Cleared in 02:05)

    Note: Movement between switching to adds has been taken into consideration and is counted as 5 seconds each time.

    Grats to OmniscientMoron, though, the first post should be edited in 5 minutes! I'll post the next boss soon, in the mean time try the Hard Mode!

  17. #37
    Pit Lord
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    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    I hope the others are more exciting than a simple geometry problem. :P
    ^ The above should be taken with two grains of salt and a fistful of "chill the F* out".

  18. #38

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    To be honest, you also have to point out that 17 of those 20 dps MUST be ranged (leaving the other 3 as plate melee dps), otherwise you will reach the enrage timer due to the time spent running by melee.
    And of course if we consider the movement time (and we should since you posted out a nice screen of the positions and distances), the kill will take more then 2.05m, more likely 2.15/2.20m AND we're still assuming that the swich is istant (well it's a game, it's ok ).


  19. #39

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    I think this is an AMAZING Idea. Thanks Detective for coming up with it!

    To all those darn trolls: If you don't like it, don't post. All of the "This is easy as Naxx" comments are so out of place. You think you're better? Well, give us YOUR shot at a hard boss. But nooooo, that wouldn't be fun, would it? You would have to actually use your brain instead of posting stupid, unnecessary crap.

    Keep up the good job, Detective. I'm sure that the design of Boss-Fights in Blizzards department doesn't look much different in the beginning. They probably even do the same skelleton model to then add the additional boss-abilities later to "give the healers jobs".

    Waiting for the next one, then I'll do a strategy attempt myself!

    Sin

  20. #40

    Re: MMO Champion: Clear my Raid Instance

    Hard Mode of "Patchwerk's Sister" is up! (OP has been edited)

    @ Profyrion

    Essentially it's a geometry problem mixed with a DPS race, I can admit that!

    @ GAfo

    The room is actually quite small, and I did put movement time into consideration (a generous 5 second each time a big switch is made). You could say it favours ranged, but at some points they will have to move and start the 2 - 3 second casts, which is almost as equal as melee who will take that long to reach the next target and instantly begin their cycles.

    @ Varithorn1

    Hold yo' horses, we're only at the first boss!


    @ Sinron990

    Cheers Sinron, hopefully the rest of the bosses are on par, though I'll need to work heavily in the drawing board!

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