Shockadin :I

[shockpally]

Thats not even close to the old shockadin spec for starters?

"Old school" shockadin was 40/00/21.

53/00/18 gives up a little damage from ret in favor of deeper holy talents like Beacon.

[Proffessor]

"Old school" shockadin was 40/00/21.

53/00/18 gives up a little damage from ret in favor of deeper holy talents like Beacon.

I think you have what a shockadin acctualy was, vs what a normal healing pally is now, horribly confused into one thing. They took away what made the real shockadin possible, judge crits on hammered foes. You could unleash all kinds of hate in very short period of time, and if there were 2 shockies at once, your screwed if you got hammered.

Every holy pally has shock now, that doesn't make them shockadins, not in the slightest. ITS GONE, end of story.

[Xs]

Can you even sustain your own DPS rotation without JotW, I highly doubt it without dipping into SoW fairly oftern, which lowers your DPS further

If you wanted a Hybrid that could do decent DPS and heal, you'd take an elemental shammy or a boomkin, they can like do decent numbers.. you know, like the rest of the raid does, not half

[shockpally]

I think you have what a shockadin acctualy was, vs what a normal healing pally is now, horribly confused into one thing. They took away what made the real shockadin possible, judge crits on hammered foes. You could unleash all kinds of hate in very short period of time, and if there were 2 shockies at once, your screwed if you got hammered.

Every holy pally has shock now, that doesn't make them shockadins, not in the slightest. ITS GONE, end of story.

LOL.. More like Every Holy paladin is now a shockadin. And if you dont think so try getting someone to spec 51/20/00 for PVE and give up the 8% crit from Ret.

Everything the standard Holy/Ret paladin is now it owes to the 40/00/21 shockadin. Along with the SD/healing consolidation and 6 sec Holy shocks.

Some people like the OP go deeper into Ret for utility and i cant blame them. Deep Holy sucks for PVP. But as far as shockadin go there are more of them now than ever. They just dont know it.

[EzriEU]

Since it's quite late at night I'll just drop in and agree with Xs.

[shockpally]

Can you even sustain your own DPS rotation without JotW, I highly doubt it without dipping into SoW fairly oftern, which lowers your DPS further

If you wanted a Hybrid that could do decent DPS and heal, you'd take an elemental shammy or a boomkin, they can like do decent numbers.. you know, like the rest of the raid does, not half

Divine Plea. It only lowers healing, not damage. JoW with SoR and You'll be fine for any PVE AE grinding. You dont need Judgments of the Wise.

There is no need for a Holy paladin to stop healing in Raids. With the exception of Loatheb, At no time in any raid or instance do you NOT NEED A MT HEALER. It doesnt matter if its a trash pull or a Boss fight. You will always need a Main Tank healer. The one and only Raid job a Holy paladin has in raids.


So my statement that Shockadin are Instance/Raid healers holds true. The spec the OP proposed is more for PVP.

[Xs]

Theres a difference between "Can aoe trash" and "Is viable DPS"
Any healer now can AoE trash and be fairly decent, most classes more so than Paladins

This topic was about it being viable DPS, which it isn't in any way shape or form

[Whitcher]

Ret is a sub par healer and tank and shouldnt be taken anywhere as such.

Ret isn't meant for healing. Prot isn't meant for healing. Holy IS. Prot takes the damage. Ret deals the damage. And holy...amagad...HEALS the damage! It's a tough concept, I know, but with a little work, I'm sure you'll get it.

[shockpally]

Theres a difference between "Can aoe trash" and "Is viable DPS"
Any healer now can AoE trash and be fairly decent, most classes more so than Paladins

This topic was about it being viable DPS, which it isn't in any way shape or form

Thats funny. The OP wanted to know if his build was capable of "decent dps" which it is. I am pointing out that the 53/00/18 build will do more damage than his build and can heal any content in the game.

You seem to think we are talking about taking some ones dps slot in a raid or something. The op is a little vague on what he means by decent dps but eh.... as a holy paladin with the build i posted i have soloed most 5 man quests and healed all the raid content ive been in just fine including 25 mans of which i have never been asked to not be MT healer or stop healing to dps.

And i'm fine with that because it's what i made this character for. Healing. I have just found a better way to spec so i can do whatever i want and dont need dual specs or separate gear.

[Xs]

"Decent amount of DPS out of a pve shockadin"

That implys he means like real pve, not trash, otherwise he would of just said "grinding" or similar

Its still a stupid topic
Noone denied that Holy can do some DPS, as can every other spec in the game
Its just no where near decent by any other spec's standards... Its decent by "WICH WAY I ROLL FAC" standard

[shockpally]

"Decent amount of DPS out of a pve shockadin"

That implys he means like real pve, not trash, otherwise he would of just said "grinding" or similar

Its still a stupid topic
Noone denied that Holy can do some DPS, as can every other spec in the game
Its just no where near decent by any other spec's standards... Its decent by "WICH WAY I ROLL FAC" standard

/shrug.

i get over 1k dps on single targets and When i AE grind mobs dont last long enough to even worry about them.

That is off of 2, 5 sec CD spells. Throw me into an instance where i can AE and have at least one replenisher along with DP and i can contribute more than "Decent" Dps if needed. certainly more than some of the supposed dps baddies that we have booted from groups in the past.

Add on some buffs and I will be hitting acceptable low end DPS according to meters.

[Varithorn1]

2500ish dps in BiS or so I guess

If the boss is undead and there is a lot of aoe.

[DaGhostDS]

i have no idea why you included Beacon of light, infusion of light or light's grace
but that would be better
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9947

[shockpally]

i have no idea why you included Beacon of light, infusion of light or light's grace
but that would be better
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9947

Because without Beacon, Infusion or Lights grace you are a sub par healer and the deeper talents you proposed in Ret dont give you that much more damage. Maybe use that build as an off spec with Dual spec for PVP but as far as having one build for what ever you want to do. Mine works fine.

[Lüther]

Because without Beacon, Infusion or Lights grace you are a sub par healer and the deeper talents you proposed in Ret dont give you that much more damage. Maybe use that build as an off spec with Dual spec for PVP but as far as having one build for what ever you want to do. Mine works fine.

I'm not trying to argue with you here. Actually, I wish that Blizz would recognize the Shockadin-type of Paladin as something they endorsed and brought some love to in the talent trees. The concept is cool IMHO.

But your linked build really isn't a 'Shockadin' per se, other than that it had Holy Shock in it. The only significant difference between it and the cookie cutter 'full healadin' build is that you've taken Seals of the Pure rather than Spiritual Focus. That's for the 15% increase to SoR (which can't crit) and its judgement, which can. But you DON'T have Improved Judgements in Ret that would allow you to judge (and crit) 2s faster. So arguably, your build would do less damage than mine (the healing one with Imp Judge and Spiritual Focus instead of Seals of the Pure) as I can judge 2s faster than you each time. But I digress.

Typically, the old Shock builds would include what was known as Sanctity Aura. The point was to be able to max DPS while retaining some healing. IOW damage was first in priority. Your rationale seems to be healing first, but to take some Ret talents for increased damage. However, what you've selected might actually do less dps than a typical healing build with Imp Judge. You could squeek more DPS by forsaking Beacon etc, and specing into Vengeance etc in Ret, but you know as well as I do that you wouldn't be able to heal much without Light's grace, Illumination and the rest.

So the question is, what really is a Shockadin and does it have any real relevance to playing a 'useful' Paladin in WoW? I guess that's up to each of us and how we define useful.

But I've tried just about everything I can to max Shockadin DPS, even at the expense of healing. The result? The healing is useless. But if I'm after DPS, and I relegate my healing to an afterthought, why not spec Ret and do 2.5-3KDPS without even lifting my face from the keyboard? And if I don't want to forsake healing, why not just take the cookie-healadin build with imp judgements and do the same DPS (minus the benefits of a few glyphs) anyway?

[DaGhostDS]

Because without Beacon, Infusion or Lights grace you are a sub par healer and the deeper talents you proposed in Ret dont give you that much more damage. Maybe use that build as an off spec with Dual spec for PVP but as far as having one build for what ever you want to do. Mine works fine.

you want to dps or heal? decide then come back
and what seal would you use?

[Xs]

Throw me into an instance where i can AE and have at least one replenisher along with DP and i can contribute more than "Decent" Dps if needed. certainly more than some of the supposed dps baddies that we have booted from groups in the past.

So you compare your DPS to "baddies" rather than to the 3-4k decent geared DPS can get in heroics fairly easily
I myself in my mostly iLvl 200 Ret gear pull ~3.5k sustained through most heroics in my pvp spec with just a 5 second cast
Which isn't the point of this topic I'm fully aware, but still theres a difference between spikes of 2k and 3.5k sustained

[Baabinator]

Fun > Viability


SHOCKADIN WILL NEVAH DIE.... NEVAAAAAH!!!!!

[Kairu]

shockpally, if you think that shockadin is a viable dps spec, show me.

"decent dps" 1500 is not decent, 1500 is a level 75 elemental shaman /cheering over the gain of lava burst.



Show me a WWS of a holy paladin breaking 3000 dps on a single target fight without gimmicks.

Until then, shockadin is dead, live with it.

[shockpally]

you want to dps or heal? decide then come back
and what seal would you use?

Why should i have to decide. Ret and prot certainly have "Significant" healing talents specifically designed so they can heal built into Mandatory talents that also give them Spell power. They don't even have to make a choice to pick up better healing talents.

Seals of the pure and JotP would be good damage talents if there was just one seal and judgment that only worked off of SP. Maybe a talented Seal in Holy like Ret has but it would have to be a deeper holy talent.

Now everyone knows Ret and Prot are designed to tank and dps. If Holy paladin have no claim on Damage then get any and all Healing talents out of Ret and Prot. Baseline healing spells is all they deserve.

Until someone can give a good reason as to why Holy paladin dont have some sort of spammable damage talent like every other healing class that works with their gear there will be no end to people wanting to get the most out of Holy paladin.

As for the build i linked you didnt look close enough. The build i copied and run every day also has Purifying power. 5 sec. CD exo plus 20% mana savings on consecrate and cleansing spells affects every thing i do outside of healing and comes in handy to save mana in cleanse heavy fights.

My total damage comes from HS (35%), Exo (15-16%) Judgments, Consecrate and seal damage. Where as before HS was responsible for over 50% of my damage.

This is just in my healing gear with IMP BoM. If i could figure out how to get more AP and not lose any SP I would carry some extra gear just for soloing and BG's.