# Thread: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

1. ## Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

So many places I've seen the Staff of Endless Winter be called an Spriest BIS. I'm courious why the overall thought seems to be that it is better then a 1H + OH.

The PP counts from shadowpriest.com show:
Staff of Endless Winter = 761.36

Constellus = 754.84

Ironmender = 116.72.

So Either of those two 1H weps with the Ironmender will be well higher then the staff. Anyone know why a lot of places show the staff being BIS? Thanks!

2. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

*Two-handers are compared to one-handers grouped with Ironmender. Staffs have also 18PP more because of the Enchant that will come with 3.1 Enchant Staff - Greater Spellpower.

3. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Not to be rude, but apparently reading is hard, because 18 PP does not overcome the 110 or so PP the offhand provides.

And to answer the original question. Because at a lot of places they can be wrong. Do the math yourself. Find out what you need and decide what is best for your situation.

4. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Yeah I missed the ** at the bottom of the list. Thanks

5. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by thethain
Not to be rude, but apparently reading is hard, because 18 PP does not overcome the 110 or so PP the offhand provides.

And to answer the original question. Because at a lot of places they can be wrong. Do the math yourself. Find out what you need and decide what is best for your situation.
Reading is hard...but inference is even harder

Sazabius was pointing out that the PP values for those one handers was already including the PP of the off hand. While that was not blatantly stated, that was the point of what he was saying.

6. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by thethain
Not to be rude, but apparently reading is hard, because 18 PP does not overcome the 110 or so PP the offhand provides.

And to answer the original question. Because at a lot of places they can be wrong. Do the math yourself. Find out what you need and decide what is best for your situation.
And not to be rude to you, you apparently find reading hard, it says that the one handers PP are including the PP from Ironmender.

7. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Lawl...

I was merely pointing out the fact the that the OP's question was already answered on the site he took the information from, hence the ;p I copy/pasted that from spriest.com.

Also there is a new off-hand in Algalon's loot table which I assume makes the mainhand/off-hand combo the highest PP available. More BiS with tons of hit, hurray!!!

8. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Starshard edge + the newly discovered Hit/crit/sp Offhand from Algalon 10 man? (i think) is bis, else Val'Anyr or whatever as opposed to Starshard edge.

edit
Originally Posted by Sazabius
More BiS with tons of hit, hurray!!!
You do realize just about everything without hit has spirit?

9. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by Strykzor
Starshard edge + the newly discovered Hit/crit/sp Offhand from Algalon 10 man? (i think) is bis, else Val'Anyr or whatever as opposed to Starshard edge.

editYou do realize just about everything without hit has spirit?
I'd be interested to see if you can use the hit effectively, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Staff is still better when you analyse all slots of your gear at once.

10. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

OMG LOL EZMODE KEEPER LULDIR ... weapon

versus

INSANE OMG WTF PWN FEED ON YOUR TEARS HARDMODE ONLY BOSS ... weapon

... and I'm the only person who think it's not really fair to compare these two items, AT ALL?

How many guilds killed Algalon 25man again?

11. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by Worshaka
I'd be interested to see if you can use the hit effectively, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Staff is still better when you analyse all slots of your gear at once.
Soulscribe/ Algalon OH would still near if not BIS.

Staff just has waaay too much wasted itemization.

@ Nezoia

PvE is not hard, Im sure there is a handful of guilds that only need 1 or 2 Hardmodes to get to Algalon.

12. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

how is it not fair to compare those two items? they are both good, why not compare them? who cares what boss drops them.

13. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

PvE is not hard, Im sure there is a handful of guilds that only need 1 or 2 Hardmodes to get to Algalon.
Comming from the guy who quitted months ago and never set a foot inside Uluar ;-)

Mimiron Hardmode is hard. Hodir hardmode is easy.

Originally Posted by llDemonll
how is it not fair to compare those two items? they are both good, why not compare them? who cares what boss drops them.
Because then I should compare Frostmourne to my Battleworn Claymore. Should we include Val'nyr in the comparison as well?

14. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

are you that dense?

if they are both good weapons, does it matter who they drop off or what instance they are from? didnt think so.

as long as they are semi-equivalent, which they are, then no it shouldnt matter.

was thunderfury disregarded simply because it was 10 iLvl lower than iblis in naxx? no. the actual damage it did was the same, if not higher and it dropped off the fourth / fifth boss of mc rather than the 2nd-3rd boss in naxx. thats two whole instances later (plus 20-mans).

as i said before, as long as they are both semi-competitive, can we not compare them simply because one boss is harder to kill than the other? didnt think so.

15. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by llDemonll
are you that dense?

if they are both good weapons, does it matter who they drop off or what instance they are from? didnt think so.

as long as they are semi-equivalent, which they are, then no it shouldnt matter.

was thunderfury disregarded simply because it was 10 iLvl lower than iblis in naxx? no. the actual damage it did was the same, if not higher and it dropped off the fourth / fifth boss of mc rather than the 2nd-3rd boss in naxx. thats two whole instances later (plus 20-mans).

as i said before, as long as they are both semi-competitive, can we not compare them simply because one boss is harder to kill than the other? didnt think so.
Way to be casual. You see, good players try to actually squeeze the most damage out of their gear as possible. If one is a solid 15 DPS higher than the other, and you just say "pass" because they are (as you put it) "semi-equivalent", then you're not doing your job.

The point of comparison is: Is it even worth trying to get the other one (Staff of Endless Winter), or is this one that I already have better? The answer is, yes, it is worth it. That's pretty much all there is to it.

16. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

what the fuck are you talking about?

im saying they are perfectly legit items to compare, i never said which i'd prefer.

17. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by Nezoia
Mimiron Hardmode is hard. Hodir hardmode is easy.
Talking about 10men, yeah, I could agree.
About 25men well, I can't understand how you can claim Hodir is easy when you've not killed it.

I see you changed guild, but heck, you're in a nameless server, the progress in PvE there is quite...non existant...At least Pretty Maids are a bit further ahead

Back in topic, your examples are completely useless, you're comparing an Hardmode Item, to the item of the last boss of Ulduar, that 2 guilds in the whole World killed, with a high rated PvP item...it doesn't really makes sense to me.

18. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

About 25men well, I can't understand how you can claim Hodir is easy when you've not killed it.
Because Hodir Hardmode is not a fundamental change to the encounter, it's just a matter of doing enough dps.

While Mimiron is a lot more about RNG and fires.

I see you changed guild, but heck, you're in a nameless server, the progress in PvE there is quite...non existant...At least Pretty Maids are a bit further ahead
It's called playing casual. I'm focusing more on my studies these days.

Besides, I'm having lots of fun after I changed guild. Just missing Firefighter, and we're on Algalon. And the progress on Mimiron is really good, consistent Phase 3 attempts.

19. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by Nezoia
Because Hodir Hardmode is not a fundamental change to the encounter, it's just a matter of doing enough dps.
Well, this looks like generalizing the encounter, then Thorim too is just the same with a "Avoid the fucking blizzard" addition, thing is that, for example, to have enough DPS you need 4 or 5 healers, this needs dropping 1 or 2, this needs insane healing, and means the need of being PERFECT on the Flash Freezes, because if in normal mode you can allow even 5,6 or 7 people caught in them, during the HM you can't afford loosing even 1 (in fact, our 1st HM kill came with Cheese The Freeze) and means that the tank needs to move to the Lights to give haste to the Melees, all the casters that gets the Lightning buff needs to run to the melees and buff them, and so on.

While Mimiron is a lot more about RNG and fires.
It's called playing casual. I'm focusing more on my studies these days.

Besides, I'm having lots of fun after I changed guild. Just missing Firefighter, and we're on Algalon. And the progress on Mimiron is really good, consistent Phase 3 attempts.
I've always found doing 10 men a way of "enjoying the game with friends", there are less people, less confusion...it's more relaxing. I can't actually enjoy it mainly because I've 10 items of 226ilvl or higher, and in 10men you shouldn't even be allowed to pass it with 226items, considering it's tuned for Naxx10 geared players, wich means 200-213 geared players, everyone claiming to be pro or "lol ulduar is easy" when nuking Ulduar10 in 226 items is simply ignorant.

20. ## Re: Staff of Endless Winter vs 1H + OH

Originally Posted by Kelesti
Way to be casual. You see, good players try to actually squeeze the most damage out of their gear as possible. If one is a solid 15 DPS higher than the other, and you just say "pass" because they are (as you put it) "semi-equivalent", then you're not doing your job.

The point of comparison is: Is it even worth trying to get the other one (Staff of Endless Winter), or is this one that I already have better? The answer is, yes, it is worth it. That's pretty much all there is to it.
I've only seen Ensidia get claim for clearing 25man Algalon so unless you're in their guild i'd suggest the Alagalon weapon isn't actually accessible. I guess you can create a gear list with items you'll never loot but then you wouldn't be doing your job properly would you?

I'd suggest by the time any guild got to clear 25man Algalon the difference between the two weapons is irrelevant... why do you need more gear once you've cleared the last possible boss for current content? You don't, people just like to do it to increase the size of their e-peen.

In any case, without doing some hard number crunching, I don't see how you can effectively use the hit from the MH/OH combination to make it any better... I probably will just to see what is the theoretical BiS combination but the Staff of Endless Winter can be obatained far earlier in Uld progression and will have more of an impact on further progression.

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