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  1. #1

    Holy healing question

    i just got duel spec, i want to heal using holy for pve, what is the best set up for healing as holy in pve?

  2. #2

    Re: Holy healing question

    Setup?

    If you mean talents, the standard build is a 14/57/0 build. with focus on getting meditation, inner focus, inspiration, spiritaul guidance, spiritual healing, spirit of redemption, surge of light, holy concentration, serendipity, sircle of healing and Guardian Spirit.

    If you mean arsenal, you are supposed to use all your heals. Even the seemingly useless ones.

    If you mean actual healing team setup, you'll do fine as long as you get some diversity. Don't bring all healers of one type. The more spread the better, healers fill eachother out well.
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  3. #3

    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    If you mean arsenal, you are supposed to use all your heals. Even the seemingly useless ones.
    Except for Holy Nova of course!

    Well, except for that Danner summed it up quite well

  4. #4

    Re: Holy healing question

    Holy nova isn't all too bad if the raid is stacked up and your group need healing. What is important to remember is that isn't really a healing spell. It's primarily an attack spell, but with some weak healing on the side.

    Unless you have the glyph, in which case it's primarily a healing spell with weak attack on the side. But you're not supposed to have that glyph as a holypriest.

    I used this spell a bit in 25-man thorim yesterday, during the arena p1. 1/3rd of the raid were in my group, and they were constantly getting hit by something. But if I went all out healing, we really had too much healing. If I went all out DPS, we had too little Healing. Holy nova was a good choice.
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  5. #5

    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Misshooks
    i just got duel spec, i want to heal using holy for pve, what is the best set up for healing as holy in pve?
    Your spec should look like this - 14/57/0.

    Be aware: Holy priest healing has changed a lot with 3.1. Holy now probably is the most powerful AoE-healing spec available, but very weak/mana-inefficient at everything else. You still can tank-heal, but you shouldn't, because you'll run out of mana extremly fast.

    Your main tools are Prayer of Healing, Prayer of Mending and Circle of Healing. It's all about building up 3 stacks of Serendipity with Flash Heal on random targets, then casting a hastened PoH, normal PoH and a CoH to finish it off. This should be sufficient to heal most raid-wipe damage spikes (Hodir Frozen Blows, Mimiron P2 etc).

    You bring additional raid utility with Body & Soul (extremly useful in Ulduar) and Guardian Spirit. Feel free to spec into Renew, it's nice to keep it up on tanks.

    Glyphs: PoH, CoH, Guardian Spirit. Don't go for Renew or Flash Heal Glyphs. Your job is AoE healing, focus on it.

    Gear: Sadly, there has to be spirit on your gear. A weak stat, weaker still after 3.1, but neccessary. Not only do you gain mana regen, but also spell power. Get crit and intellect wherever you can, and don't miss out haste.

  6. #6

    Re: Holy healing question

    I would tend to disagree with alot of that, Shockk. Flash Spam is good for those three stacks, but when you know a spell's coming you can do what we like to call "Pre-casting". It's this new thing where you get a spell ready so that it goes off half a second after the damage does. And by "new" I of course mean "Good priests have been doing this since Molten Core".

    Serendipity helps, but for a lot of things, knowledge of a fight plays out better. Circle of Healing and Prayer of Mending are your major spells, with a Prayer of Healing as a finish, yes. But as a raid healer, you still do a lot of topping up. That's where, typically, Flash Heal comes in. Serendipity, Surge of Light, Holy Concentration, etc. Renew might not give Serendipity, but pretty much the rest go all out.

    But the new Renew is powerful and definitely worth the 6 talent points (and a glyph spot) to spend on it. If they need more health -after- having Renew (or other HoTs on them) that would be when I go for Flash Heal.

    For Prayer of Healing, the HoT I've found was a little on the weak side there but I didn't spend too much time on it (and was in blues at the time, I might have to go back to get a fresh opinion this). My "main" heal spell is now Improved/Empowered Renew, and tossing it on the tanks while your raid is topped up isn't really a "bad thing" (same with Prayer of Mending).

    Try pushing Flash Heal a step back from "Must spam this spell" to "Only really need as a top up" and teach your raid to play with HoTs. Hell, any resto druid you run with will love you if you can. You'll notice a difference.
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  7. #7

    Re: Holy healing question

    I pretty much agree with Kelesti.

    Concerning Shokk's build - for PvE purposes, I'd redistribute the 2 points from Body and Soul to Surge of Light and Renew.

  8. #8

    Re: Holy healing question

    No need for such an arrogant reply, Kelesti.

    I assume that every healer knows how to pre-cast if neccessary. That every healer knows about fight mechanics. And that every healer regardless of assigned role will top off people with random heals here and there.

    Don't take me for an ignorant poster and don't call my feedback bad just because I don't mention obvious or trivial stuff.

    I never said to ignore Renew. If you had looked at the spec I linked, you'd even have found it talented. I just said not to glyph for it, because the AoE-healing glyphs are enhancing the holy priest's role much better.

    Prayer of Mending is nice to have, but it's randomness isn't reliable when you need healing done right now on the right targets. Ulduar10, Mimiron, Phase 2. Hodir, Frozen Blows. Freya+Elders, Earthquake or AoE-Add phases. THAT's what the new holy priest has been designed for. Prayer of Healing + Circle of Healing are the way to go, while PoM will randomly bounce through the raid.

    For Prayer of Healing, the HoT I've found was a little on the weak side there but I didn't spend too much time on it (and was in blues at the time, I might have to go back to get a fresh opinion this). My "main" heal spell is now Improved/Empowered Renew, and tossing it on the tanks while your raid is topped up isn't really a "bad thing" (same with Prayer of Mending).
    Judging from your own "experiences" you probably haven't healed a boss fight more difficult than Naxx. Try healing Ulduar with Renew, watch your raid die away while you're desperately trying to find out what you're doing wrong - and then we might talk again about holy priest healing.

    In case you haven't noticed - healing, especially in Ulduar, is albout fulfilling several roles. Paladins are tank healers. Discipline priests are tank/"oh shit"-healers. Holy priests and druids are raid healers. Shamans, to a certain degree, are the only "real" allrounders left. Doesn't mean that you are limited to that role - but you should excel at it.

  9. #9
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    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by EzriEU
    I pretty much agree with Kelesti.

    Concerning Shokk's build - for PvE purposes, I'd redistribute the 2 points from Body and Soul to Surge of Light and Renew.
    While Surge of Light and Renew should be in every holy build anyway, Body & Soul is AWESOME in pretty much every bossfight in Ulduar.
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  10. #10

    Re: Holy healing question

    I would go with

    Glyphs-
    Guardian Spirit
    Renew
    Flash Heal

    I am finding that even though I am being required to AE heal a lot mroe in Ulduar, it its not a deal breaker to not have Serendipity. I have one point in this just because I could not find another place for it. I mainly use Renew on someone who has taken 1/3 damage or less and let that top them off/ if it procs Surge then I heal someone who needs a flash. If renew fails to top them off I follow with a flash. PoM usually on a tank and let it bounce around. I generally recast PoM every CD because it is hard to track how many times its bounced and therefore how many it has left (is there an addon to do this?). Other than that I use Guardian spirit whenever it is up and a tank gets kinda low b/c with a 1 min CD (glyphed) and a mana cost of about 300. Its ttly worth getting a tank to full within 3 secs.
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  11. #11

    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Shockk
    No need for such an arrogant reply, Kelesti.
    I assume that every healer knows how to pre-cast if neccessary. That every healer knows about fight mechanics. And that every healer regardless of assigned role will top off people with random heals here and there.
    It wasn't so much about arrogance as stating a convoluted mix of fact and heavily biased opinion, based on my own findings. As to your assumption, that every healer knows how to pre-cast if necessary... That takes the need of Serendipity down quite a chunk.

    Don't take me for an ignorant poster and don't call my feedback bad just because I don't mention obvious or trivial stuff.

    I never said to ignore Renew. If you had looked at the spec I linked, you'd even have found it talented. I just said not to glyph for it, because the AoE-healing glyphs are enhancing the holy priest's role much better.
    I didn't. Quite a large chunk of the Priest population still aren't quite aware of just how awesome Renew is, and are spec'ing it because they see others doing it and don't really have a much better place to put the points.

    Prayer of Mending is nice to have, but it's randomness isn't reliable when you need healing done right now on the right targets. Ulduar10, Mimiron, Phase 2. Hodir, Frozen Blows. Freya+Elders, Earthquake or AoE-Add phases. THAT's what the new holy priest has been designed for. Prayer of Healing + Circle of Healing are the way to go, while PoM will randomly bounce through the raid.
    True. And Surge of Light/Renew to top people off.

    Judging from your own "experiences"...
    Judging from your own attacking comments, you seem like you're on the verge of being replaced and have to fight to justify your place in a raid, thus being extremely defensive here.
    you probably haven't healed a boss fight more difficult than Naxx.
    ...or made it past Kara with an 18/43 build to get Hand of A'dal before 2.4 went live, or through the better half of Sunwell pre-nerf, or even Sarth 3D. Or have any knowledge of the Priest class in general.
    Try healing Ulduar with Renew,
    Okay, done.
    watch your raid die away
    Haven't done that step yet, I knew I was missing something.
    while you're desperately trying to find out what you're doing wrong
    Or that step, either. Hmm...
    and then we might talk again about holy priest healing.
    I pretty much stated my findings, that's all. Whether you disagree is based on your own experiences. Although why I would come to you again based on such hostility is completely beyond my knowledge.

    In case you haven't noticed - healing, especially in Ulduar, is albout fulfilling several roles. Paladins are tank healers. Discipline priests are tank/"oh shit"-healers. Holy priests and druids are raid healers. Shamans, to a certain degree, are the only "real" allrounders left. Doesn't mean that you are limited to that role - but you should excel at it.
    A holy priest is a better-all-around healer than a Resto Shaman is. True story.
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  12. #12

    Re: Holy healing question

    There is no wrong answer on the renew vs no renew debate, imo.
    Which spells and glyphs to cast is largely determined by the other healers and damage pattern and personal healing style.

    Renew is an awesome spell if used and specced for properly. The glyph is imo optional. But for renew to work, you must have more than one priest throwing hots about. If you have two priests and two druids hot'ing up the raid, the HPS is downright amazing, and this will make mimiron P2 almost ridiculously easy.

    Prayer of Healing spam is also awesome, I don't think anyone is arguing against that, and Serendipity makes it twice as awesome. But again, the glyph isn't all that. The extra 1k hot is almost always going into overhealing, but on certain fights, like mimiron, it makes all the difference in the world.

    Flash heal spam is also perfectly viable inbetween all the aoe heals. I would argue however that the fheal glyph is mandatory, as a glyphed flash heal is the only reasonably priced heal in the holypriest arsenal, everything else being excessively expensive. FHeal has a nice synergy with PoH, which is what largely makes this spell the go-to spell in my book. If you don't use PoH or FHeal much, Serendipity is maybe not the best choice for talents, but I wouldn't raid without it for the life of me. That's just me. Other healers use renew as the go-to spell, and this works just as well.

    Personal pick in glyphs: FHeal, CoH, GS
    Other decent choices: PoH, Renew

    Either way, Body and Soul is awesome in every fight in Ulduar. The extra movement speed will save lives.


    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  13. #13

    Re: Holy healing question

    I think Danner's made the best post so far, and this was emphasized to me last night. I only do 10-mans (BC burned me out of 25-mans) and I weekly take my Holy Priest alt into Ulduar10 with another guild that needs a healer.

    The normal healing group we get is a Resto Shaman, Holy Paladin, and myself (Holy Priest). In this case Earth Shield and Beacon dominate tank healing, but due to the nature of raid damage in Ulduar Chain Heal isn't particularly effective and Paladins have no AoE heal to speak of. So on most weeks I found myself in the role of AoE/bomb healer. The other two healers were good at stabilizing people and sniping small heals, but I could usually fit in a few Flash Heals to charge Serendipity.

    Last night we had a total change up and it was Resto Druid x2 and myself. Prayer of Healing dropped HARD with that setup. It just wasn't worth casting; by the time my fully hasted spell finished the 8k damage that had hit the raid was reduced to like 4k, and while I could pre-cast on some fights it just wasn't worth it. I'd just CoH and let the HoTs finish the work. Casting Flash Heal without Surge of Light was an exercise in futility: small amounts of damage were filled up too fast with omni-present HoTs. In these circumstances Empowered Renew was really shining as it helped me work in with the present healing environment, as oddly enough Gheal as the druids lacked the kind of fast big heals that my usual Paladin/Shaman counterparts were able to drop. I think I ended up casting more Gheals last night than I have in a long time (not that I neglect the spell usually, it's just not as effective).

    So the answer is: your healing style should be dictated by who you heal with, not by the class.

  14. #14

    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by Neichus

    So the answer is: your healing style should be dictated by the situation at hand, not by the class.
    Fixt =P

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Holy healing question

    except that it is also dependent on who you heal with as well

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  16. #16
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    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by llDemonll
    except that it is also dependent on who you heal with as well
    I think that is included in the "situation" part
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  17. #17

    Re: Holy healing question

    Yeah, a more encompassing statement would be just the general situation. I was just specifically commenting on my own story, which had to do with the same fights but with different classes.

  18. #18

    Re: Holy healing question

    The most important thing, in my view, is to know who you raid with.

    I, personally, tend to heal Warrior tanks more than anything. Well, I used to anyways. I've rarely healed druids, and sometimes healed DK/Pally tanks. Healed a Shammy tank once, mind you..

    But yes, get to know who you raid/HC with first. Your healing style will (and should) adapt to their play style. With warriors, it's not so much spike damage, it's more constant. So you have to keep renews ticking and such.
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  19. #19

    Re: Holy healing question

    Quote Originally Posted by dionadar
    Except for Holy Nova of course!

    Well, except for that Danner summed it up quite well
    Actually if you glyph for holy nova it beats out a 3x serendipity poh is healing per second (assuming its hitting all targets in your group). There's been discussion about this for hardmodes on the elitist jerks forums; namely freya, thorim, and especially for phase 2 firefighter

  20. #20

    Re: Holy healing question

    gotta love the spam of "i know more, my spec is best".

    full topic about spec discussions, go read there - no point spaming "i'm smart take my spec" all end up with the same spec, MORE OR LESS.

    just get the important talents - which i won't mention, all talent options are on the thread: talent discussions. good luck.

    i hope this thread gets locked or removed, whats the point of making multipule threads, when finally we have someone arranging a thread for each discussion, so why not use it?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=44709.0 <--- talent discussion thread.

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