Paladins are still fine in Arena

[Keelie]

I was posting this in response to a QQ thread, but seeing as there are many of them...

Considering the utility that Paladins bring to Arena (even WITH a 4 second nerf to HoF, 10 seconds now talented), Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection, Heals, Cleanses (even if they don't always work), Divine Sacrifice, an anti-gib mechanic in Divine Shield (yes, I know it can be Mass Dispelled and Shattering Thrown), their ability to switch targets as soon as their damage cooldowns are up, no setup, no DoTs or debuffs, just retarget and you're ready to go for a kill.

So you can't kill a healer by yourself. I've got news for you. I play a very well geared Disc Priest as my main. I can't beat a Ret Paladin in a 1v1 duel if he is any good at all. He can Cleanse both my DoTs, heal enough with Divine Plea that I will go OOM from the damage he is pumping into me. No, I probably won't die until I go OOM, but at the same time, I can't kill one in a duel. So yes, you CAN solo healers.

And now you say, "In Arena you have a teammate who is peeling for you and CCing for you!" And I say, so Ret Paladins, go find either a partner with an interrupt, a partner with a mortal strike, a partner with enough burst to complement yours or a healer with some CC and chain it together with your CC while a trinket is down. Don't kill the healer. CC the healer and kill his DPS.

Gladiator-viable teams - Ret/Ret, Ret/Mage, Ret/Rogue, Ret/DK, Ret/Priest, Ret/Druid, Ret/Shaman, Ret/Holy. I'm sure I've missed some.

Oh, to add on, I play Feral/Priest. We don't have a MS or an interrupt. We do just fine. We rely on CC chains, LoS and positioning to get a kill. I also play my Priest very offensively. Not only do we not have an interrupt or MS, but my Feral has to get 4 buffs/debuffs up, some of which require CPs, before we go for a kill. No quick swaps for us.

That's how it works. Your options are not at all limited, and you are far from being a bad class in Arena, unless you're a bad player. You are light years away from where you were in TBC, and once again, you are not a bad class/spec to play in Arena, even with the Vindication nerf.

I AM sorry that you feel picked on with all the hotfixed nerfs, but really, a lot of those hotfixes came at a time when Ret Paladins really were stupidly OP.

[Varius]

Can a team be build around a paladin? Sure it can, and if you work hard enough you can get a good rating.

The problem is that the rogue, priest, and mage would much rather pick a partner from one of those three classes who can bring alot of offensive utility and/or CC to the table, and a DK would rather take the healer to play the oom the other healer or fight long enough their team makes a mistake game.

The problem is currently a ret pally brings alot of defensive cooldowns while good for saving teammates means that if our 3 offensive attacks fail to kill a person the only thing we can do is wait for those cooldowns to come back up and keep doing that. In an arena game if you cant use your class to create a situation where someone is going to die at least a good 90% of the time its all RNG to if you will win and that just isnt fun.

What needs to happen is our dps needs to be upped a bit, burst toned down a bit, and/or given a way to keep using defensive cooldowns and heals to stay alive till we can kill someone. Sure bubble is great against that pom/pryo like specs that can bring tens of thousands of damage points in a few GCDs but against a mut rogue or Dk who just have to restart their rotation and do it again in 30 secs while we still have forbearance we suck.

I can understand both side's QQ the burst is either so much we blow you up in 4.5 secs or cant kill you before you kill us and bubble is either the ability to avoid raid boss level damage for 12 seconds or just 12 seconds in which to play between your next cooldown some 5 mins in the future until which time your half the class you wish to be.

[Palatinus]

You have more of an interrupt than ret paladins do....i know i played holy/feral in s5. If if its turned into a stun, still on a 10 second cooldown compared to 40 seconds.

[Felshara]

lol ret/ret does not work on my battlegroup

[Adamson]

lol ret/ret does not work on any battlegroup

Fixed

[Adamson]

Gladiator-viable teams - Ret/Ret, Ret/Mage, Ret/Rogue, Ret/DK, Ret/Priest, Ret/Druid, Ret/Shaman, Ret/Holy. I'm sure I've missed some.

You are clearly an expert.

Ret/holy is horrible.

Ret/ret is a joke

Ret/mage and ret/rogue require a lot of coordination against good teams.

Ret/dk is also a joke, very gimmicky and conditional, lots of counter comps.

Ret/shaman is the weakest ret/healer team with the exception of ret/holy paladin.

Ret/disc ret/resto and ret/rogue are probably rets best teams right now in 2v2.

Rets are in a much better place in 3's.

[Evereghalo]

I was posting this in response to a QQ thread, but seeing as there are many of them...

Considering the utility that Paladins bring to Arena (even WITH a 4 second nerf to HoF, 10 seconds now talented), Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection, Heals, Cleanses (even if they don't always work), Divine Sacrifice, an anti-gib mechanic in Divine Shield (yes, I know it can be Mass Dispelled and Shattering Thrown), their ability to switch targets as soon as their damage cooldowns are up, no setup, no DoTs or debuffs, just retarget and you're ready to go for a kill.

So you can't kill a healer by yourself. I've got news for you. I play a very well geared Disc Priest as my main. I can't beat a Ret Paladin in a 1v1 duel if he is any good at all. He can Cleanse both my DoTs, heal enough with Divine Plea that I will go OOM from the damage he is pumping into me. No, I probably won't die until I go OOM, but at the same time, I can't kill one in a duel. So yes, you CAN solo healers.

And now you say, "In Arena you have a teammate who is peeling for you and CCing for you!" And I say, so Ret Paladins, go find either a partner with an interrupt, a partner with a mortal strike, a partner with enough burst to complement yours or a healer with some CC and chain it together with your CC while a trinket is down. Don't kill the healer. CC the healer and kill his DPS.

Gladiator-viable teams - Ret/Ret, Ret/Mage, Ret/Rogue, Ret/DK, Ret/Priest, Ret/Druid, Ret/Shaman, Ret/Holy. I'm sure I've missed some.

Oh, to add on, I play Feral/Priest. We don't have a MS or an interrupt. We do just fine. We rely on CC chains, LoS and positioning to get a kill. I also play my Priest very offensively. Not only do we not have an interrupt or MS, but my Feral has to get 4 buffs/debuffs up, some of which require CPs, before we go for a kill. No quick swaps for us.

That's how it works. Your options are not at all limited, and you are far from being a bad class in Arena, unless you're a bad player. You are light years away from where you were in TBC, and once again, you are not a bad class/spec to play in Arena, even with the Vindication nerf.

I AM sorry that you feel picked on with all the hotfixed nerfs, but really, a lot of those hotfixes came at a time when Ret Paladins really were stupidly OP.

Um, you do not duel 1v1?

Unless they added in a new arena bracket?

The point of 2, 3, and 5 is like a chess game where its attack, respond, attack respond.

[Xeries]

Ferals might not have an interupt, but they sure use main as one.

About ret, its really stupid atm. Sure, you might not kill the healer, but you will get him to ~30% in one stun. Killing warriors/rogue/shamans/[insert class here] in the duration of a repentence is np.

Ret needs to be changed alot. The whole "push the spell thats off cd"-system is gay. More tools and less burst!

[Possiblyreefer]

pretty sure the auto roots and the 10.5 second of cyclone you can possibly get on a DR cycle dont make a difference?
not to mention the aoe fear every 20seconds aswell as a very punishing mana burn

cant make that much of a difference

like stealth is to rogue imo

[Adamson]

Ferals might not have an interupt, but they sure use main as one.

About ret, its really stupid atm. Sure, you might not kill the healer, but you will get him to ~30% in one stun. Killing warriors/rogue/shamans/[insert class here] in the duration of a repentence is np

lol

You know a lot about ret paladins.

1: Killing a healer in a hammer of justice from 100-0 is absolutely impossible with a 800+ resilience target.
2: Repentance breaks on damage.
3: Using hammer of justice when a target is higher than 60% HP is possible the biggest waste of a cooldown I've ever heard of.

[Xeries]

lol

You know a lot about ret paladins.

1: Killing a healer in a hammer of justice from 100-0 is absolutely impossible with a 800+ resilience target.
2: Repentance breaks on damage.
3: Using hammer of justice when a target is higher than 60% HP is possible the biggest waste of a cooldown I've ever heard of.

Never said you could get anyone from 100-0 in a stun.

By killing someone in the duration of a repentance I ment to repentence the healer and kill the dps ofc.

IF a ret paladin goes alone on me in arena they will use hoj when im over 60%, simply cause i wont go <60. Hoj is (pretty much) the only interupt the paladin have. As long as he is dpsing me i will spam-heal myself to prevent going low.

[Takkun]

Lololololol Ret opin 1v1 true ret op in arena untrue. g.g

[Luthius]

Lololololol Ret opin 1v1 true ret op in arena untrue. g.g

Zomg TROLL WARRIOR!

[Babypost]

Never said you could get anyone from 100-0 in a stun.

By killing someone in the duration of a repentance I ment to repentence the healer and kill the dps ofc.

You fail.

[espectro]

Not much has changed really for the play style of paladins from level 70 - 80. The only difference is they're doing much better than they were at 70. At 80, essentially all you're doing is using whatever button isn't on CD, and trying to HoJ or repentance at the right moment while setting up something with your teammates. I really hope blizzard decides to completely re-work the way ret paladins are right now. At 70, you basically did the same thing you do now, except nothing would die. If you wanted to get anywhere in arena, you had to be on top of dispels, seal twist, or find other methods to actually do well.

I just hope that with all these nerfs, there's going to be buffs or changes coming to ret paladins. Maybe it'll get me to play again.

[BTownSoldier]

kinda off topic but me and my buddy started doin our 2's today and im a ret pali(BTownsoldier) and he's a preist(mallenroh) how the hell are we supposta kill a war druid combo? any info would be helpful. it seems to be the only combo we are havin trouble with.

[iktankniet]

a druid has to stack healing when his teammate/himself gets dmg. as ret, the best you can do is switch alot so the druid has to use alot of dots/mana to keep them up.
the most important is a well timed HoJ on the druid. when he is on 60%, has few hots on himself, then you use HoJ, wings + al cd's. also let priest help on dmg dealing
on the druid.

if you are BE you can also use aoe silence to get another 2 sec

[Keelie]

You have more of an interrupt than ret paladins do....i know i played holy/feral in s5. If if its turned into a stun, still on a 10 second cooldown compared to 40 seconds.

It still requires CPs.

[Keelie]

You are clearly an expert.

Ret/holy is horrible.

Ret/ret is a joke

Ret/mage and ret/rogue require a lot of coordination against good teams.

Ret/dk is also a joke, very gimmicky and conditional, lots of counter comps.

Ret/shaman is the weakest ret/healer team with the exception of ret/holy paladin.

Ret/disc ret/resto and ret/rogue are probably rets best teams right now in 2v2.

Rets are in a much better place in 3's.

I didn't say they were all great teams, I said they were all viable teams. In the proper gear, and a bit of skill, those are all alright teams and you can find 2200+ rated versions of them. Obviously, Priest/Ret and Resto/Ret are the two best comps there. Both Ret/Mage and Ret/Rogue are good teams, but yes, they require...wait for it...coordination in CC! OMG the skillz.

Yes, Rets are in a better place in 3s, because they play on fairly mindless cleave teams where they take one person with a mortal strike, one person without a mortal strike but with burst and one healer.

[highwind01]

The problem is that the rogue, priest, and mage would much rather pick a partner from one of those three classes who can bring alot of offensive utility and/or CC to the table, and a DK would rather take the healer to play the oom the other healer or fight long enough their team makes a mistake game.

If u call that a "problem", what do you call the choices a warrior has for 2on2 ?

U have a Paladin and a Druid as viable partners, perhaps a shaman also... a priest, although being a healer, does not work very well, non-healers dont work at all for serious 2on2.
All of these classes are forced to be heal specced to be viable (while they have tons of options for viable partners if not healing specced) and even when heal specced, warrior is often a good, but never a unrivaled chocie - rogue for example works normaly as good.

So please dont tell me the o-so-poor lolret has hardtimes finding 2on2 mates