Frost Dps

[Granpa]

So apparently there's a rotation that uses glyph of howling blast and doesn't use Plague strike. It doesn't seem like that was intended and so was nerfed (so I've heard). You can read about it on EJ.

Yes there is a rotation that uses HB and no plague strike, I use it, and to my knowledge, it hasn't been nerfed.

[Unholyground]

You can actually still do more dps with the pre HB glyph rotation. 15% on rime isn't enough to rely on. That proc is bonus dmg at best.

[harky]

It hasn't been nerfed and if it wasn't intended Blizz wouldn't have put in the HB glyph that makes it possible. It also uses Blood Presence over Unholy, which is better for double disease rotations, which are slightly better with Sigil of the Vengeful Heart.

The rotation replaces IT>PS with a single HB and then replacing an Obliterate with HB whenever IT is about to fall off. Rime smoothes out the rotation when it procs, but it isn't required to keep up the rotation at all.

[Granpa]

You can actually still do more dps with the pre HB glyph rotation. 15% on rime isn't enough to rely on. That proc is bonus dmg at best.

Are you referring to the x6 IT rotation? I honestly haven't really tried that all that much, when I did try it I was in blood stance and I guess from what I'm reading it works best in unholy stance. Gonna have to give it a try, tough the HB rotation give me amazing DPS at the moment.

[Unholyground]

Are you referring to the x6 IT rotation? I honestly haven't really tried that all that much, when I did try it I was in blood stance and I guess from what I'm reading it works best in unholy stance. Gonna have to give it a try, tough the HB rotation give me amazing DPS at the moment.

Oh I'm sure it does give good dps, my rotation has never failed me. IT, PS, P, HB, OB, BS, FS, FS, FS, FS. Repeat. That is AOE of course and it can change depending on spec and disease durations. I do Frost/Blood and not Frost/Unholy like many so i don't get the extra 6 sec. Id rather have the pretty much guaranteed frost strike and Obliterate crits all the time.

[harky]

Frost/Blood is the standard, not Frost/Unholy. The only Frost builds that go very far into Unholy are tanking builds.

[Vicious]

ok guys i have a lot of questions, but first i will state my faults....

so i still use the 2 disease rotation, but i want to switch to the HB rotation since oblit is usually 3 on my dmg list 2nd to melee hits. not this may also be from something i am doing wrong. i also only have 2p t7.5 but the stats i get from my other pieces are much better, accept for the lack of 4p set bonus.

1. someone said that the generation of RP is fairly straight forward. The base amount of RP is in direct corrilation with the amount of dmg done by the attack (before talents and glyphs and all that), correct? because it seems like the more dmg i do on like Oblit the more runic power it creates. (not by much but noticable) but then again i cool be imagining it.

2. if answer to Q1 is not correct ignore Q2. if Rp is produced based on dmg done per attack wouldnt 4pT8 bonus make more sent to use a 2 disease rotation, reverting back to using IT and IT glyph?

3. based off glacier rot and all the other talent that increase ITdmg, It seems to me that HB would produce less dmg over an entire encounter than PS>IT. reducing the Dmg on oblit by 12.5%... and possible extra RP

4. Glyph of disease would make more sense to me, inputting it in the second BS spot.. loosing 1 bs and picking up numerous Oblits. after the first application of PS and IT then you wouldnt need to worry about it again still maintaining your death runes, and Bs doesnt do crap for dmg anyway. or does HB produce more base RP?

Then (if you took it) you can drop virulence ion favor of 3% more crit in your talents, as I believe we can agree crit is a good stat for frost, above other DK specs.

5. Where is 3% crit coming from? are your specing scent of blood or something?

6. can anyone provide general numbers of runic power for IT HB and OB (base)

7. is the trade of bladed armor, dark convictions, and imp 2h for epidemic necrosis and blood caked strike legit and how so? you loose about ap (hopefully your stackin str and not AP) 5% crit and 4% weapon dmg(what stikes would this affect) and gain 6 sec on dieases, 22% melee hit dmg, and 20% blood caked, tho blood caked seems pretty crappy on a target with 1 disease.

[Beachchairs]

ok guys i have a lot of questions, but first i will state my faults....

so i still use the 2 disease rotation, but i want to switch to the HB rotation since oblit is usually 3 on my dmg list 2nd to melee hits. not this may also be from something i am doing wrong. i also only have 2p t7.5 but the stats i get from my other pieces are much better, accept for the lack of 4p set bonus.

1. someone said that the generation of RP is fairly straight forward. The base amount of RP is in direct corrilation with the amount of dmg done by the attack (before talents and glyphs and all that), correct? because it seems like the more dmg i do on like Oblit the more runic power it creates. (not by much but noticable) but then again i cool be imagining it.

It is based of the number of runes used in the ability. Single rune abilities generate 10, double rune 15. I'm not sure what DnD generates. This is before any talents of course. If it looks otherwise, you probably have some other talents that grant RP, and they happen to be kicking in at the same time.

Rage is balanced around damage done, and Blizzard has to rebalance it semi-frequently.

3. based off glacier rot and all the other talent that increase ITdmg, It seems to me that HB would produce less dmg over an entire encounter than PS>IT. reducing the Dmg on oblit by 12.5%... and possible extra RP

HB hits for roughly double what IT touch does. And IT is roughly double PS. So PS + IT hits for about 75% of what HB does, but it generates 5 more RP. I actually don't know how the reduced damage from Oblit is compensated for. The typical answer is that you will be able to

4. Glyph of disease would make more sense to me, inputting it in the second BS spot.. loosing 1 bs and picking up numerous Oblits. after the first application of PS and IT then you wouldnt need to worry about it again still maintaining your death runes, and Bs doesnt do crap for dmg anyway. or does HB produce more base RP?

If you do want to do dual disease, then the glyph makes sense. With the single disease, you will get enough free HB to keep the disease up all the time. So since BS actually does damage, it is better than Pest since you won't need to use Pest for anything.

6. can anyone provide general numbers of runic power for IT HB and OB (base)

IT - 10
HB - 15
OB - 15
Then add any talents.

7. is the trade of bladed armor, dark convictions, and imp 2h for epidemic necrosis and blood caked strike legit and how so? you loose about ap (hopefully your stackin str and not AP) 5% crit and 4% weapon dmg(what stikes would this affect) and gain 6 sec on dieases, 22% melee hit dmg, and 20% blood caked, tho blood caked seems pretty crappy on a target with 1 disease.

No, its not worth it. The main reason is one you didn't mention either. Blood has better RP generation with Butchery. Since Frost Strike is so Uber, you want as much RP as possible to spam it.
Blood also has +9% crit to Oblit, and the threat reduction.
Oblit and FS benifit from the increased weapon damage.
You will end up clipping your diseases enough anyways for the extra 6 secs not to matter.
Blood caked is pretty crappy unless you are 3 disease unholy.
And necrosis isn't all the much when all is said and done. It works out to about 4.5% of your dps when you have it, for 5 points. Where the 5% crit talent in blood, is a 5% dps increase for the same number of points.

[Elektrik]

You can actually still do more dps with the pre HB glyph rotation. 15% on rime isn't enough to rely on. That proc is bonus dmg at best.

Yeah...it is bonus damage. When you get a rime proc, you turn what would have been the HB into an obliterate.

You aren't relying on Rime at all, but when it procs, it's a little bonus damage.....or a lot of bonus damage in an aoe situation.

1. someone said that the generation of RP is fairly straight forward. The base amount of RP is in direct corrilation with the amount of dmg done by the attack (before talents and glyphs and all that), correct? because it seems like the more dmg i do on like Oblit the more runic power it creates. (not by much but noticable) but then again i cool be imagining it.

You're thinking of rage, not RP. As mentioned, you get 10 RP for single rune attacks (IT, PS, BS, BB, pest, etc...) and 15 RP for multi-rune attacks (SS, OB, HB, DS, etc...). Also, HoW gives you 10 RP.

[Toysuprapr]

i'm 20/51/0 DRM. Whats the rotation for that spec and best glyphs for it. My DK name is Chestwound from Ysera server. Good advice would be appreciated.

[harky]

The whole point of going 20/51 with Death Rune Mastery is to take advantage of the ITx6 rotation, which has no set rotation.

Opening rotation is: IT>OB>BS>Blood Tap>OB>IT>Dump

From that point on you use all Unholy Runes on Obliterate and all other runes on either Icy Touch, or Blood Strike. This means all Death Runes become Icy Touch. You use the following glyphs: Icy Touch, Obliterate and Frost Strike. It's also important to know that you'll be in Unholy Presence.

If you don't have Vengeful Heart, it's better to go with standard 17/51/3 single disease. The extra Frost Strikes from spamming the utter crap out of Icy Touch won't make up the difference without it.

[Opacalypse]

i love the 17/51/3 spec

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...k&n=Opacalypse

ma armory adn i reach 3.5k dps in naxx 25 man

Rotation: Hb-ds-ds-ob-fs

i love the 13k frost strike crits

[Unholyground]

i love the 17/51/3 spec

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...k&n=Opacalypse

ma armory adn i reach 3.5k dps in naxx 25 man

Rotation: Hb-ds-ds-ob-fs

i love the 13k frost strike crits

[Phreeze]

i love the 17/51/3 spec

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...k&n=Opacalypse

ma armory adn i reach 3.5k dps in naxx 25 man

Rotation: Hb-ds-ds-ob-fs Smiley

i love the 13k frost strike crits

too much hit

[yeknom366]

I saw the 6xIT rotation this explained such that you start the fight with IT->PS->OB->BS->BS->BT->XX. XX can be any one rune ability. When your runes refresh, you will have BD/FD/UD and you can then use OB->BS->IT->IT->IT for the rest of the fight. Using that setup will spread out the 6xIT to not cap your RP as fast while also allowing you to hit more KM procs with FS.

Another word of help for some people is that with certain gear, you can do more dps with an OB heavy rotation. I've been doing this myself, but unfortunately I am forced into it. I've got 4pc T8, OB sigil, and ~250 armor pen. It all points towards OB rather that FS. If anyone is in the situation, it probably will be more dps, but in BiS gear, 6xIT rotation is easily better.

[Vicious]

ArP affects FS correct? im not really sure that with teh FS glyph, in any proper frost spec, that OB would be better than FS.

[grymgroeth]

ArP affects FS correct? im not really sure that with teh FS glyph, in any proper frost spec, that OB would be better than FS.

OB isn't better than FS in any proper frost build but FS needs runic power that you simply don't have at the points OB is in the rotations.

OB>nothing are your options at those points in the rotation, if you want a HUGE dps loss, feel free to choose nothing.

[Dobz]

I use both PS and IT and im in blood presence..

I do gd dmg no matter what imo..

Build: 17 / 51 / 3

This is my rotation: PS - IT - BS - BS - OB - FS - OB - FS - Rune dump (FS)

i use glyph of Frost Strike, Icy touch and Ob..

Im always atleast in top3 on the dmg meters..

[Sylar Hao]

I want to ask a few things as I'm about to reach level 80. I've read almost all this thread and there are some things I still don't understand.

1. Almost all of you start with IT instead of PS, but the talent Glacier Rot states that deseased enemies take more damage from IT... so... isn't it better to start with PS so IT will deal 20% more damage?

2. From what I could check, FF from HB glyph doesn't activate Icy Talons, then... is that an useful glyph?

3. I'm doubting between 4 speccs, which is driving me crazy XD. I'm sure about the 44 points (FS and Guile of Gorefiend):
- 27/44 - This one takes the 8% extra strength from Veteran of the III War + Abomination's Might and the extra 10% ap when using OB. But it may be too bad for AoE. Extra AP means extra damage on everything.
- 19/52 - As I see this is the standard frost dps. What is better? 15% extra damage or 8%str+10%ap extra?
- 52/19 - Extra damage on every swing but 5% less crit.
- 50/21 or 44/27 - A more constant dps imo... but again less aoe dps

4. If OB is a big part of the rotation, and it increases its damage as more deseases on the target, why skipping PS?

Thanks for the answers to this noob :P

[Jmcduffie]

Ley - To awnser #1; Yes you are correct for the first hit.... but think about this if we engage in a 5 min boss battle and you lose your diseases.. are you playing a DK correctly?

#2 The HB glyph is a 100% proc assuming you land the hit w/ HB...

#3 FS should be your #1 dmg on the the meters roughly 30-40%.... you need that. Also Do not recomend starting out as frost. w/o the sigil to increase frost strike dmg you will be driven crazy how noob Unholy DK's will beat you

#4 Spam more OB's... if you waste it on PS, then you have to wait on the Rune Cooldown to be able to hit w/ an OB... plus then you make your rotation much more randomized becuase you will be more reliant on certain procs at certain times... Also, experiment buddy!!!

The fun thing about being a DK is that you can be really any spec and still do quite well... just depends on what you do and how you play. Just remember the meters don't matter if the boss isnt dead.