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  1. #1
    Nitroxide
    Guest

    How to fix SP pvp

    Survivability is not the problem i believe, well from what i have seen anyway. (coming from someone who has rarely played SP so dont be offended)

    I believe the biggest problem is dispellers, and the easiest way to stop this problem is to add a dispell function to the spell "Vampiric touch". E.g If the spell is dispelled the dispeller recieves a "X amount" second silence.

    I know this is the same as UA from the afflicition tree for locks, but seriously it would go a long way for SP.

    This may have been brought up im not too sure so dont flame please! I'm just suggesting ideas

    so what do you think?

  2. #2

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Dispell protection is indeed one of the biggest concerns... But survivability outside of dispersion (which is in reality a 6 sec self silence) needs work too..
    Same goes for mobility, fade buff doesnt really do much since most snares can easily be reapplied

  3. #3

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Something like 3 seconds of snare immunity after each Fade and a silence-upon-dispell mechanic of VT seems like a good solution to me.
    Planning is for amateurs.

  4. #4

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Combine vampiric touch and vampiric embrace. Allow healing in shadowform. OP

  5. #5

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    - No nuking ability
    - Huge cooldowns on CC abilities that require us to gem for hit rating instead of to be offensive
    - Our 51 point talent was designed to turn us into tanks for 6 seconds, it doesn't help enough

    Basically, there's no such situation in which we can tank for 10-15 sec and wait for opponents to lose their nuking power. Melee maintains their nuking power all the time while they can kick, stun, pummel, mind freeze, strangulate us while delivering huge blows. Shadow's designed poorly for pvp, it's not dispelling that's the problem only. We take a long time to put the dots up, to build up shadow weaving and then to unload our damage which still isn't bursty enough.

    Warriors gem for crit, frost mages get +50% crit on frozen targets (and have fingers of frost too), rogues / rets have all above 30% crit chance while in pvp gear. Shadow priest hasn't got over 12% crit in pvp gear. Most of the players at 2k have 1k resilience that completely and totally negates all the crit shadow has. Hence, even if me manage to put up the dots - the damage is sustained and not spiky like rets for example.

    We don't get to choose how to fight, since we're either death gripped, repetanced + HoJ-ed, sapped - cheapshotted - kidneyshotted or simply charged. Melee gets to choose how to fight us.

    I dig the whole "if the meleer gets to close to you, you die", but we don't even have more powerful ranged attacks and we don't have abilities to quickly get away from them (locks = demonic circle, mages = blink, nova, cone etc., hunter = disengage and traps).

    You'll notice I'm talking only about certain classes, I didn't mention shamans and moonkins who are also ranged dps and aren't doing as good even tho moonkin is better than sp in arena fights.

    Nothing has changed since tbc really. We're still the punching bag of meleers. Every gear upgrade I obtain - I don't "feel" the change. I still get owned when I'm shadow simply because my attack take really long time to set in and I get huge damage early in the game.

    There have been numerous suggestions how to fix shadows in pvp. A lot of people also asked for shadow to be turned into "the" pvp spec or at least made viable to a certain point. And that lasted for 2.5 years so far, yet nothing has been done.
    What happened was this:

    - we got pushback protection in form of Improved Shadowform - awesome for pve, all the other classes had it in tbc anyway. Nothing new.
    - we got more juice at vampiric touch (finally). But it still ticks once per 3 secs.
    - we got slightly improved fear, which any class breaks instantly with their talents or racials so it's still the same useless shit. It also requires us to gem for hit instead of for offensiveness.
    - we got Dispersion which proved to be one of the most awesome pve talents and quite useless in pvp because we silence ourselves. It also made us tanks and not someone who attacks to push the edge.
    - we got dispel protection that's so weak that I laugh when I see I'm playing against SP - I know dispeling of VT will trigger easily bouncing of my PoM between me and my teammate, I'll heal even easier. Not enough of a change.
    - we got disarm thingy that's on stupidly long cooldown. I'd quote a blue post but I cba to find it right now where it says that they were afraid that shadow priest could just chain CC opponents. Well brainiacs, that's exactly what locks, mages, rogues do. Fail spell. Also requires gemming for hit rating.

    I could go on with suggestions what to do but the fact is that once melee reaches us, we die. Disarm and Dispersion don't help, especially fear. We need a way to either move them away from us or to move ourselves away. We don't have that ability (well, we do in a way in form of our fear that doesn't work). Until someone with half brain in Blizzard sits infront of the drawing board and finally comes up with the same conclusions as 99.99% of priest community did - we won't see a change. Besides, there's disc spec they've been buffing to no end since season 2 so one might argue that we want 2 specs viable in pvp while some have "only" one or none.

    Now, I bet there will be a smartass saying "l2p, me and my friend are at 2.2k rating" - please, just spare me such posts, along with "wall of text, didn't read" - just don't comment.

  6. #6
    Nitroxide
    Guest

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    - No nuking ability
    - Huge cooldowns on CC abilities that require us to gem for hit rating instead of to be offensive
    - Our 51 point talent was designed to turn us into tanks for 6 seconds, it doesn't help enough

    Basically, there's no such situation in which we can tank for 10-15 sec and wait for opponents to lose their nuking power. Melee maintains their nuking power all the time while they can kick, stun, pummel, mind freeze, strangulate us while delivering huge blows. Shadow's designed poorly for pvp, it's not dispelling that's the problem only. We take a long time to put the dots up, to build up shadow weaving and then to unload our damage which still isn't bursty enough.

    Warriors gem for crit, frost mages get +50% crit on frozen targets (and have fingers of frost too), rogues / rets have all above 30% crit chance while in pvp gear. Shadow priest hasn't got over 12% crit in pvp gear. Most of the players at 2k have 1k resilience that completely and totally negates all the crit shadow has. Hence, even if me manage to put up the dots - the damage is sustained and not spiky like rets for example.

    We don't get to choose how to fight, since we're either death gripped, repetanced + HoJ-ed, sapped - cheapshotted - kidneyshotted or simply charged. Melee gets to choose how to fight us.

    I dig the whole "if the meleer gets to close to you, you die", but we don't even have more powerful ranged attacks and we don't have abilities to quickly get away from them (locks = demonic circle, mages = blink, nova, cone etc., hunter = disengage and traps).

    You'll notice I'm talking only about certain classes, I didn't mention shamans and moonkins who are also ranged dps and aren't doing as good even tho moonkin is better than sp in arena fights.

    Nothing has changed since tbc really. We're still the punching bag of meleers. Every gear upgrade I obtain - I don't "feel" the change. I still get owned when I'm shadow simply because my attack take really long time to set in and I get huge damage early in the game.

    There have been numerous suggestions how to fix shadows in pvp. A lot of people also asked for shadow to be turned into "the" pvp spec or at least made viable to a certain point. And that lasted for 2.5 years so far, yet nothing has been done.
    What happened was this:

    - we got pushback protection in form of Improved Shadowform - awesome for pve, all the other classes had it in tbc anyway. Nothing new.
    - we got more juice at vampiric touch (finally). But it still ticks once per 3 secs.
    - we got slightly improved fear, which any class breaks instantly with their talents or racials so it's still the same useless shit. It also requires us to gem for hit instead of for offensiveness.
    - we got Dispersion which proved to be one of the most awesome pve talents and quite useless in pvp because we silence ourselves. It also made us tanks and not someone who attacks to push the edge.
    - we got dispel protection that's so weak that I laugh when I see I'm playing against SP - I know dispeling of VT will trigger easily bouncing of my PoM between me and my teammate, I'll heal even easier. Not enough of a change.
    - we got disarm thingy that's on stupidly long cooldown. I'd quote a blue post but I cba to find it right now where it says that they were afraid that shadow priest could just chain CC opponents. Well brainiacs, that's exactly what locks, mages, rogues do. Fail spell. Also requires gemming for hit rating.

    I could go on with suggestions what to do but the fact is that once melee reaches us, we die. Disarm and Dispersion don't help, especially fear. We need a way to either move them away from us or to move ourselves away. We don't have that ability (well, we do in a way in form of our fear that doesn't work). Until someone with half brain in Blizzard sits infront of the drawing board and finally comes up with the same conclusions as 99.99% of priest community did - we won't see a change. Besides, there's disc spec they've been buffing to no end since season 2 so one might argue that we want 2 specs viable in pvp while some have "only" one or none.

    Now, I bet there will be a smartass saying "l2p, me and my friend are at 2.2k rating" - please, just spare me such posts, along with "wall of text, didn't read" - just don't comment.
    I did read it and i think your points are interesting and valid, however rome wasn't built in a day.I could see one or two changes possibly coming SP's way but never ever will they end up how you described them with those solutions.

    I have been reading some other posts about "is it viable?" blah blah, and it's wierd that SP has been left so long with minor adjustments to the class, which didn't even fufill their purpose.It is actually crazy how so many other classes became more viable in arena than SP, TANKS are even more viable.

  7. #7

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroxide
    Survivability is not the problem i believe, well from what i have seen anyway. (coming from someone who has rarely played SP so dont be offended)

    I believe the biggest problem is dispellers, and the easiest way to stop this problem is to add a dispell function to the spell "Vampiric touch". E.g If the spell is dispelled the dispeller recieves a "X amount" second silence.

    I know this is the same as UA from the afflicition tree for locks, but seriously it would go a long way for SP.

    This may have been brought up im not too sure so dont flame please! I'm just suggesting ideas

    so what do you think?
    the exact same as warlock.... and tahts exactly why blizz will not do it.

    Priest should have something that actually make sence for the class instead of just random buffs that make them viable.
    Priests heal,buff,benifit others.
    giving them a nuke would not make sence at all, however giving them another spell to buff people with would.

    As much as people hate it, shadowmend would make sence for a priest, or something along those lines.

    for you dota players: Time lapse, nerub weavers ult would be something that i could see blizz giving to priests. not the exact spell but something similar, seems to fit into a "shadow priests" spellbook. However, thats a whole new spell and realisticly would not come out for a long long time, possibly in the expansion.

    for you non dota players: time lapse basicly takes you back in time like 5ish seconds to what your exact hp/mana/position was.

    dispell resistance ike u said would work, but also just makes classes that much more the same.

  8. #8

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    How about a disc ability for all priests, divine levitation, puts us 15 yards in the air, physical ability (aka cant be dispelled) and doesn't get broken on damage. 2 minute cooldown lasts 10 seconds.

    Gives us 10 seconds to play with melee but ranged can still nuke us.

    It's a blink but one that is 'priest like'
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  9. #9

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    @op heard that already many times.

  10. #10

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    I remember a suggestion for changing Improved Psychic Scream to also lower the cooldown on Silence and Psychic Horror, which would be a nice step in the right direction.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  11. #11

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Babypost
    Combine vampiric touch and vampiric embrace. Allow healing in shadowform. OP
    I wish they would just combine them. And yes, that would be OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenarius
    You sir, is a retard.

  12. #12

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    How about a disc ability for all priests, divine levitation, puts us 15 yards in the air, physical ability (aka cant be dispelled) and doesn't get broken on damage. 2 minute cooldown lasts 10 seconds.

    Gives us 10 seconds to play with melee but ranged can still nuke us.

    It's a blink but one that is 'priest like'
    yes

  13. #13

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    How about a disc ability for all priests, divine levitation, puts us 15 yards in the air, physical ability (aka cant be dispelled) and doesn't get broken on damage. 2 minute cooldown lasts 10 seconds.

    Gives us 10 seconds to play with melee but ranged can still nuke us.

    It's a blink but one that is 'priest like'
    Very Creative.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliekcookies View Post
    WoW is like heroine among MMORPGs. Once you're hooked, it's an addiction. You can't go back to anything weaker.

  14. #14

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    How about a disc ability for all priests, divine levitation, puts us 15 yards in the air, physical ability (aka cant be dispelled) and doesn't get broken on damage. 2 minute cooldown lasts 10 seconds.

    Gives us 10 seconds to play with melee but ranged can still nuke us.

    It's a blink but one that is 'priest like'
    But you can already do this sort of in dalaran sewers arena you just jump and put levitate on right when u get kicked out of the tunnel resulting in being catapulted over the battlefield straight into the enemy team but you get your 2 seconds of flying glory!!............
    "Because of all the days that have passed, We are who we are."

  15. #15

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroxide
    Survivability is not the problem i believe, well from what i have seen anyway. (coming from someone who has rarely played SP so dont be offended)

    I believe the biggest problem is dispellers, and the easiest way to stop this problem is to add a dispell function to the spell "Vampiric touch". E.g If the spell is dispelled the dispeller recieves a "X amount" second silence.

    I know this is the same as UA from the afflicition tree for locks, but seriously it would go a long way for SP.

    This may have been brought up im not too sure so dont flame please! I'm just suggesting ideas

    so what do you think?
    Take it from a long time spriest... survivability is the major problem. Unlike every other cloth class we don't have repeatable control... it makes us sitting ducks and we have one 3 min CD to live for an entire 6 seconds... it's simply not enough.

  16. #16

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Quote Originally Posted by talrob
    How about a disc ability for all priests, divine levitation, puts us 15 yards in the air, physical ability (aka cant be dispelled) and doesn't get broken on damage. 2 minute cooldown lasts 10 seconds.

    Gives us 10 seconds to play with melee but ranged can still nuke us.

    It's a blink but one that is 'priest like'
    Also I would like to add it drops all threat for 10 seconds or else some retard would use it in pve and evade bug the boss or something.
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  17. #17

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    I would say all raid bosses and raid mobs would be immune to it, like the frost mage 51 point talent that you can't cast outside of an arena.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  18. #18

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    Actually, after thinking about it for a while, I started to realise just how many PVP tools Shadow Priests are missing:

    Roots
    Spammable CC
    Decent targeted CC
    Interrupts
    Stuns
    Something to get out of melee range
    Any defensive skill that does something they have to deal with, instead of one they can ignore completely

    Then we have the things we "sort of" have

    We sort of have a snare, it slows them but makes us unable to move so it doesn't actually stop them from getting to us
    We can sort of heal, if we drop Shadowform and take 15% more damage
    We sort of have dispel resistance, but nobody actually cares or even considers not dispelling it because it does nothing
    We sort of have a pet for 10 seconds
    We sort of have a defensive cooldown, except it doesn't stop people from doing anything to us



    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  19. #19

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    You'll be disappointed to find out UA isn't all that it's cut out to be anymore. even if they dispell it, the crit happens, and the silence happens, most the healers I've fought in both arena and battlegrounds will be topped off as soon as the silence effect is over.

    Being a warlock, and not a shadow priest, I can't help you, but I agree PvP for you guys could be tweaked a bit, but I don't think adding a dispell-this-happens effect will help

  20. #20

    Re: How to fix SP pvp

    i already see blizzard's blue post about priest whining for shadow in arena

    * priest class already have a viable spec for arena (disc), blizzard wants all speces to be viable for it, but currently shadow priest mechanics are working as intended, we are considering class change but it's not in our short list.
    zug zug

    what is it paladin, one zug is not enough for ya?

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