The best PVP gear - Issue

[Baabinator]

Arenas and grinding for rewardsI think some players like Arenas because they are quick, easy to organize (relative to a BG), often have fast queues, and / or they just enjoy the “purity” (for want of a better word) of just trying to kill the other team without having to worry about flags, reinforcements, bad players not contributing to the war effort, etc. However, a lot of players who may not really like Arenas get drawn into them in order to procure the best PvP gear. This second issue is something we’d like to fix, but we need to develop a way to reward good gear through BGs that isn’t based on endless grinding.

The problem here is that the best gear is only available in arena and that battlegrounds are more of a grind to start up your arenateams.
I came up with an idea based on that. People should be able to get PVP gear even when not participating in the Arena's. The amount of points, and difficulty of achieving those PVP-points (not honor points) would vary depending on the battleground. Here we go:

People would get points based on certain feats such as:

-Personally kill X consecutive hostile players while under 35% total health without the help of any other friendly player, completion of this feat will grant you Y PVP-points. Kills must be made in a single battleground. Can only be achieved 3 times per day.
-WSG: X=2 Y= 25
-AB: X=3 Y= 30
-AV: X=3 Y= 35
-EOTS: X=2 Y= 20
-SOTA: X=4 Y= 25

-Capture X flag(s) in one of the following battlegrounds without receiving any healing from any other friendly player, completion of this feat will grant you Y PVP-points. Can only be achieved 2 times per day. Flags must be captured in a single battleground.
-WSG: X=1 Y= 60
-AB: X=3 Y= 10
-AV: X=2 Y= 35
-EOTS: X=3 Y= 45
-SOTA: X=1 Y= 35

-Keep a friendly player alive by any means for at least 60 seconds allowing him to personally kill X hostile players, requires you to stay within 30 yards of that player at all times, completion of this feat will grant you Y PVP-points. Can only be achieved 2 times per day.
-WSG: X=3 Y= 35
-AB: X=4 Y= 15
-AV: X=3 Y= 35
-EOTS: X=5 Y= 35
-SOTA: X=5 Y= 30

-----------------------

With those PVP-Points you would be able to get every version of pvp gear, be it hateful, deadly or even furious. No i hear you thinking, isn't that the same as a honour grind just for better gear. Well no, these PVP-feats would have hard-modes in them. Take for instance my second PVP-feat:

-Capture X flag(s) in one of the following battlegrounds without receiving any healing from any other friendly player, completion of this feat will grant you Y PVP-points. Can only be achieved 2 times per day. Flags must be captured in a single battleground.
-WSG: X=1 Y= 60
-AB: X=3 Y= 10
-AV: X=2 Y= 35
-EOTS: X=3 Y= 45
-SOTA: X=1 Y= 35

Now let's change it to Hard-Mode version:

-Capture X flag(s) in one of the following battlegrounds without receiving any healing from any other friendly player, within Y seconds, completion of this feat will grant you Z Hard-PVP-points. Can only be achieved once per day. Flags must be captured in a single battleground.
-WSG: X=1 Y= 45 Z=20
-EOTS: X=2 Y= 20 Z=10

These slight hard-tweaks would make sure it's going to be more of a challenge rather then an endless grind.
Ofcourse there would be a vast amount of these feats to attain, yet i hope you all get the idea by this.
Gear would be buyable with either honour, arena points, pvp-points, or hard-pvp-points.

Ideas? Thoughts? Flames (about how everyone should just go arena, even if their class is at a lesser state then theirs)?

Edit: Of course, PVP-points is just the lack for a better word.
Edit2: You would be able to buy hateful with normal PVP points, deadly with hard+PVP points, and Furious solely on Hard PVP points.

[Baabinator]

That would not be balanced.

Explain

Edit: i think i figured out what you mean.
Things like the first feat:

-Personally kill X consecutive hostile players while under 35% total health without the help of any other friendly player, completion of this feat will grant you Y PVP-points. Kills must be made in a single battleground. Can only be achieved 3 times per day.

I agree this would be alot easier for people with alot of CC and burst damage, such as the rogue, the mage, and the deathknight.
That's why there would be ALOT of these feats to attain. If you think outside the box, you realize that some classes get SOME OF THOSE with ease, while other's might struggle with SOME OF THOSE.

Do you think a rogue for example has an easy time performing the third feat?
It's doable, yes, but NOT easy at all. Whereas he might have a very easy time doing the first or second one.

Perfect balance is impossible in an MMO

[Xenotoxic]

i like your idea, but i dont like the way you have the objectives set up. it seems too complicated. i like the pvp-points idea (lack of a better word indeed).

i think blizzard should combine this kind of thing with the rank system (high warlord ect). i didnt play wow pre-BC, so idk how that title ranking system worked exactly. flame away if you must.





a bit of my own idea mixed with yours:
pvp-points are aquired by participating in certain aspects of certain BGs. examples would be killing flag carriers, capturing/returning flags/nodes, destroying siege vehicles, using siege vehicles to destory structures and other siege vehicles, taking the insignias of opposing players ect. each would have its own point value. achievements earned during a BG would also award these points.

these points are logged daily, and you recieve them at the end of the week. similar to how arena points are distributed. you will recieve these points based on your point average that week. lets say you average 25 "pvp-points" a per day, you would recieve 25 points at the end of the week. the next week you average about 40 per day, at the end of that week you would have 65 "pvp-points" from those 2 weeks total.

ranks would be given based on these averages. once you obtain a high rank you must maintain your average to keep it. at the end of the season, you are given a title to display your rank for that season, if your rank is lower next season, your title gets changed accordingly. the gear would require a certain rank to aquire them, and would be buyable with honor.

if i just discribed blizzards ranking system pre-BC, then ignore everything you read above and read only what i type below:

bring back the old ranking system

[Baabinator]

i like your idea, but i dont like the way you have the objectives set up. it seems too complicated. i like the pvp-points idea (lack of a better word indeed).

i think blizzard should combine this kind of thing with the rank system (high warlord ect). i didnt play wow pre-BC, so idk how that title ranking system worked exactly. flame away if you must.

a bit of my own idea mixed with yours:
pvp-points are aquired by participating in certain aspects of certain BGs. examples would be killing flag carriers, capturing/returning flags/nodes, destroying siege vehicles, using siege vehicles to destory structures and other siege vehicles, taking the insignias of opposing players ect. each would have its own point value. achievements earned during a BG would also award these points.

these points are logged daily, and you recieve them at the end of the week. similar to how arena points are distributed. you will recieve these points based on your point average that week. lets say you average 25 "pvp-points" a per day, you would recieve 25 points at the end of the week. the next week you average about 40 per day, at the end of that week you would have 65 "pvp-points" from those 2 weeks total.

ranks would be given based on these averages. once you obtain a high rank you must maintain your average to keep it. at the end of the season, you are given a title to display your rank for that season, if your rank is lower next season, your title gets changed accordingly. the gear would require a certain rank to aquire them, and would be buyable with honor.

if i just discribed blizzards ranking system pre-BC, then ignore everything you read above and read only what i type below:

bring back the old ranking system

The highlighted part was my point really, i just made them a little more complex, and reduced them to only a set few to actually require skill rather then the endless grind we call honor. Setting up certain ways to really *determine* the skilled players, from the unskilled ones. And rewarding the ones being so.

Your ranking idea i don't like so much, an entire season to be able to pick gear seems a little weird. If by season you mean week, it COULD work.

Anyways, these points should be based on actual things you achieve rather then RNG (e.g winning a match 2000/0 because the it was a 15/5 face-off)

[Xenotoxic]

well, i didnt mean getting gear at the end of the season, i meant getting it while you have your rank.

kinda like in arenas, you can hit 1850, get your weapon while you have your rating, then lose a lot of games.

blizzard brought back naxx, why not bring back the ranking system? =P

[Apocalyptic]

i think blizzard should combine this kind of thing with the rank system (high warlord ect). i didnt play wow pre-BC, so idk how that title ranking system worked exactly. flame away if you must.

Wouldn't work if you combined it with the vanilla honor system. That was basically an endless grind.

To the OP:
I like your concept, however i disagree with the idea behind your "Objectives". Some of them are too situational, and some of them requires too much luck. If the system is to reward something as powerful as Furious gear (Personally, i feel that there should be different sets for BG PvP and Arena PvP. Maybe stats more suited for BG, like a different glove static buff).
There should basically be win-loss things in BG aswell. Like, every flag you capture rewards you that many "BGRatingPoints" and a win rewards you with this many "BGRatingPoints".

There has to be a rating system in this battleground aswell, to prevent people getting carried to good gear. Therefore, there should be a personal rating system, and you will get matched with, and play together with, people at the same "Matchmaking rating" as yourself. There would ofcourse have to be a huge system to help reward the people who deserve the increased "Matchmaking Rating", and this would be similar to the arenas rating system. Where you are allowed to get the best gear, only by proving yourself extensively.

Something along those lines, i just came up with this in a hurry, so you know... Comments are appreciated.

[Baabinator]

Wouldn't work if you combined it with the vanilla honor system. That was basically an endless grind.

To the OP:
I like your concept, however i disagree with the idea behind your "Objectives". Some of them are too situational, and some of them requires too much luck. If the system is to reward something as powerful as Furious gear (Personally, i feel that there should be different sets for BG PvP and Arena PvP. Maybe stats more suited for BG, like a different glove static buff).
There should basically be win-loss things in BG aswell. Like, every flag you capture rewards you that many "BGRatingPoints" and a win rewards you with this many "BGRatingPoints".

There has to be a rating system in this battleground aswell, to prevent people getting carried to good gear. Therefore, there should be a personal rating system, and you will get matched with, and play together with, people at the same "Matchmaking rating" as yourself. There would ofcourse have to be a huge system to help reward the people who deserve the increased "Matchmaking Rating", and this would be similar to the arenas rating system. Where you are allowed to get the best gear, only by proving yourself extensively.

Something along those lines, i just came up with this in a hurry, so you know... Comments are appreciated.

Matchmaking Rating for BG = 101% pure win.

On a side note: Those objectives weren't things like quests or achievements, they're just a detailed description of how one could get those points and avoiding exploit to some of those easier/harder to get ones.

I might've made it a little more complicated then needed.

[Xenotoxic]

Wouldn't work if you combined it with the vanilla honor system. That was basically an endless grind.

To the OP:
I like your concept, however i disagree with the idea behind your "Objectives". Some of them are too situational, and some of them requires too much luck. If the system is to reward something as powerful as Furious gear (Personally, i feel that there should be different sets for BG PvP and Arena PvP. Maybe stats more suited for BG, like a different glove static buff).
There should basically be win-loss things in BG aswell. Like, every flag you capture rewards you that many "BGRatingPoints" and a win rewards you with this many "BGRatingPoints".

There has to be a rating system in this battleground aswell, to prevent people getting carried to good gear. Therefore, there should be a personal rating system, and you will get matched with, and play together with, people at the same "Matchmaking rating" as yourself. There would ofcourse have to be a huge system to help reward the people who deserve the increased "Matchmaking Rating", and this would be similar to the arenas rating system. Where you are allowed to get the best gear, only by proving yourself extensively.

Something along those lines, i just came up with this in a hurry, so you know... Comments are appreciated.

i believe your way would definatly weed out the moochers and afkers that get carried to welfare epics. it would also put good players against good players, making BGs more interesting. but first blizzard needs to fix their queuing system. games that start up 15 to 5 are more than likely losing games.

[Naxcis]

It looks like some of the ways to gain these points also require alot of solo play in bgs, so that discourages team work.
I mean, If i was just about to rack up one of the points by getting the HK solo kill on a player, and saw another one of my team running up for the kill.. id kinda be annoyed.

Like the idea of hardmode BGs=Better gear though.

*EDIT* Someone mentioned about gaining these different points through core aspects of the BG Killing FCs etc, I had a similar idea and this actually encourages a more active battleground as a whole and more teamwork in the BG, you would have the pvp geared pro getting his pvp points while the newbie scrub grinding for his hateful set standing shoulder to shoulder.

[Proffessor]

Oh I dunno, how about giving extra credit to things like taking a flag, defending a flag, taking a control point, defending a control point, etc etc.

Make these extra credits an even slow gain as not to prmote whoring if said objectives(spread though members nearby for example)so they don't just get camped or zerged. There are to many players that don't do anything in BG's but flex their e-peens just going around and HK'ing all day long, ignoring objectives. Mind you, these are the same people that think arena means anything to anyone with any PvP background.

BG's like SotA are prime examples of where this could be implemented, through placing bombs, and blowing up tanks/guns, you could gain objective points to spend alongside honour points. To me this promotes teamplay more then just goin in and HK'ing all day, that doesn't get the job done most of the time, other then 'looking cool' on the scoreboard.

None of these points should be gaind through killing, period, otherwise its just the same thing we have now. Midfield HK humpfests.

On a related note, Arena should be setup so that you premake your spec/gearset that stays with your team, and is applied upon entering the arena. This is the ONLY way to even the playing field and bring it down to purely skill based play that wins, and NOT the gear. If you want to show off your PvP gear, people simply need to inspect you and look at your leet arena rating/title. Arena is horrificly flawed in nearly every way, and needs a complete overhaul.

I played in seasons 1-4, and it took that long to realize it, sadly.

[Pasture]

-Capture X flag(s) in one of the following battlegrounds without receiving any healing from any other friendly player, completion of this feat will grant you Y PVP-points. Can only be achieved 2 times per day. Flags must be captured in a single battleground.
-WSG: X=1 Y= 60
-AB: X=3 Y= 10
-AV: X=2 Y= 35
-EOTS: X=3 Y= 45
-SOTA: X=1 Y= 35

The WSG would be ridiculously unfair. Druids, shamans, DKs and pallies would run away without while classes such as mages wouldn't stand a chance with 2-3 opponents on their tail as they try to capture the flag.

[Moxal]

@OP,

Thank you for including some "pvp points achievements" that healers can obtain.

[Apocalyptic]

but first blizzard needs to fix their queuing system. games that start up 15 to 5 are more than likely losing games.

Yeah, that would be the biggest issue, seeing as games can be won/lost withing minutes, just because they failed to fill all the spots.

It looks like some of the ways to gain these points also require alot of solo play in bgs, so that discourages team work.
I mean, If i was just about to rack up one of the points by getting the HK solo kill on a player, and saw another one of my team running up for the kill.. id kinda be annoyed.

Yeah, i can see this one. Atm i'm massively farming BG achievements, and i have to say. I do ruin the game for my mates in there. Doing useless shit.

Battlegrounds like WSG and SotA are majorly based on teamwork, and thus, "objectives" in there should encourage such. There can be huge lists of things to do for rewards in all BG's. But there should be a limit to how many you can do, like OP suggested. For example, tank defending in SotA.

"Kill 10 players within 100yrds of a tank OR take down two walls while defending the same tank."
Objectives like these give you alternatives, so that you dont camp one place waiting for people to come. Like the "Not in My House" achievement in WSG. Anyway, this is just a suggestion, and probably won't work too good. There need to be something that actually requires a brain to go through with. Maybe adding more options to battlegrounds is a way to go. Like several ways to take down the walls in SotA, or some other way to enter Frostwolf Keep/Dun Baldar. This discussion can keep going for quite a while.

[Beaavis]

I like the idea of what you're trying to do here. I think if Blizz took the same idea and tweaked it they could make it work.

That said i'm not really a believer in skill should reward more than grind. I think skill should shortcut grind, but grind should be an avenue towards good rewards.

In the end if good rewards opportunity becomes more equalized, the more skill plays in separating players. Currently better gear just magnifies the already more skilled dominating others.

[Baabinator]

The WSG would be ridiculously unfair. Druids, shamans, DKs and pallies would run away without while classes such as mages wouldn't stand a chance with 2-3 opponents on their tail as they try to capture the flag.

Well.... y'know... there are alot of these things....

...Some work for you...some work for others...

Please read the rest as well...

[Hibz]

Like the idea, but you have to think about the achievements, for example "Stormtrooper"Kill 5 flag carriers in a single Eye of the Storm battle."

That would be nearly impossible if everyone would hunt that flag for some points.
The only way possible to get that achievement would be to take the flag, run to the allience and personaly hand it to them, and shortly after kill them.

[Apocalyptic]

Like the idea, but you have to think about the achievements, for example "Stormtrooper"Kill 5 flag carriers in a single Eye of the Storm battle."

That would be nearly impossible if everyone would hunt that flag for some points.
The only way possible to get that achievement would be to take the flag, run to the allience and personaly hand it to them, and shortly after kill them.

What has this got to do with anything? =/