Can you tell in advance if a pug will fail ?

[Shuntenzatu]

you can useualy tell by the players attitude

there english skills are poor (no offenece to those russians i used to play with on shadowmoon ^^)

you mean if they mistake "there" for "their" for example?

[Artex]

I used to rely on gear and experience... but I've been wrong before.

I've been playing WoW for 4 years, and believe me, there are a lot of good players out there who appear to have poor English skills, when the truth is they're just not that bothered with corrective typing.

PuGs can be very surprising at times. Despite how much of a waste of time it may seem at first, if you leave before you actually get to see how things work out, it's really your loss.

It's not "cutting your losses" if you spend 10 minutes waiting for the group to form and then leave because the group leader says "plz", or something ridiculous like that.

I can see why the elitists don't do PuGs, but quite frankly I prefer a newbie willing to learn over a spoiled brat who alt+tabs after every wipe because he can't be arsed to run back to his corpse.

When those so-called "proper" players leave after 1-2 wipes because they feel too superior for the rest of the raid, that's really the main reason the PuGs actually fail.

[Lilylee]

you can useualy tell by the players attitude

Usealy? Oh come on...

[sadface]

It sometimes can be tricky. For me personally, if someone spams raid chat asking "summon me plz!!" over and over, I pester the RL into kicking them. They usually agree. If the leaders start distributing the loot before we even get there, I take it as a warning sign. If people start to argue over who gets what, I get out. If no one makes any effort to make their own way to the raid, I do get worried. English skills is another thing.

The most annoyed I have ever been in a raid was a Naxx10 guild run. Everything was going fine till we got to Grob. Now we had a resto shammy. He was Russian I think and appeared to have decent English. We started the fight, but he kept poison cleanse totems up and didn't move when he got the poison thingy on him. He ended up wiping us.

We went again, exact same thing happened. I then asked the RL to have a word. The RL asked him if he knew what he was doing, he told him yes. Went again, same thing. I went off in raid chat, asking him if he knew the tactics, that it was ok to not know and all that matters was telling us so we could tell him. No response. He wouldn't even acknowledge me. It was the same with the RL.

We went for one more time after I spammed raid chat with instructions. Same thing happened again. The RL decided to end the raid, both em and him were severely pissed off. Then someone piped up "English isn't his first language, give him a break". Then the shammy says "Yea, my English isn't good". It seemed fine before the raid started. Then it seems to get to bad, he cannot tell that other players are speaking to him. I called shenanigans and left the raid. He was using language as an excuse for not paying attention.

I never associate with "IVAN DRAGO" ppl ... they just annoy me to much and i dont have the patience to understand them or for them to understand me ...

If there is an ivan drago around THINGS will fall apart

I WILL BREAK YOU
IF HE DIES, HE DIES
I defeat all man. Soon I defeat real champion.

[Evilmoo]

SHIFT+CLICK on LFMer check the guild, i have some kind of black/whitelist for guilds i'll never go to pug with.

[Shin-Ra]

that was ironic
But, afaik, you don't have 30k in heroic gear (25-30). Bears probly a bit more.

I refuse to go to heroics if the tank has less than 25k hp and 25k is still low for the harder ones imo...

[Soulbender]

I refuse to go to heroics if the tank has less than 25k hp and 25k is still low for the harder ones imo...

hmmm... is there a heroic boss who will do more than 25k in two hits on a def capped tank?
If not, you could heal that. Dunno what hp pool has a heroic geared tank tbh

[Hellemental]

Well I was running UK normal on my dk alt yesterday, and I could tell right away that it was going to be horrendous. The healer, a pala with 8k mana and apparently only one healing spell was running around grabbing the Vrykul weapons for one of the quests. In the middle of fights. He was of the impression that they only appeared in the first couple of rooms when they are all over the instance. He caused us to wipe twice because he wasn't healing the tank. As it turns out, he only did 2k more healing than the ret pala with us, and he hardly touched his healing spells...

[Soulbender]

Well I was running UK normal on my dk alt yesterday, and I could tell right away that it was going to be horrendous. The healer, a pala with 8k mana and apparently only one healing spell was running around grabbing the Vrykul weapons for one of the quests. In the middle of fights. He was of the impression that they only appeared in the first couple of rooms when they are all over the instance. He caused us to wipe twice because he wasn't healing the tank. As it turns out, he only did 2k more healing than the ret pala with us, and he hardly touched his healing spells...

check the gear and talents. a holy paladin with 8k mana is probably a ret with a crap healing set.
There's several spells a competent paladin uses : SS on tank, Holy shock, LoH, and two heals (long and short), but spamming only flash of light is doable if the tank is geared. Shows you're lazy, thou.

[Lightstrike]

I can usually tell within the first few minutes... it's all in the build up.

If you call out and ask who wants a summon for a raid, and then 10 minutes later when you've finished summoning and are in the instance you have 5 people asking for summons, it's gonna be a failpug..
Similarly, it's a good idea to go to patchwerk first when pugging naxx for 2 reasons.. 1, it's a gear check and any noobs stick out. 2, it requires the tanks to work together and the healers to sort themselves out with who heals who, if they can't do that, then it's a failpug.

For instances, it's even easier tbh.. there are plenty of ways to tell, most people who pug are alts and know a fair bit about their main class so just by inspecting the people you go with of the same class as your main gives you an idea.
E.g. I play a prot paladin, I healed HoL on my druid where the tank was a prot pala.. he didn't have improved devotion aura, he didn't have any points in improved judgement and he was using seal of wisdom because "it keeps him at full mana".. he also managed to waste 2 combat resses by taking them before the mobs had run away after a wipe.

Instance pugs usually fail because people have no accountability and just leave temperamentally in the middle of the instance.. but I think you can identify the people likely to do that... they're slow to respond to simple questions, get impatient at stupid times.. like saying nothing until you have a full group then start badgering people to hurry up, and are probably guildless.

[Brunevde]

I usually give all pugs at least one boss in heroics and as long as the tank is above 20k(i have gotten a timed CoT with a blue geared pally tank) u should be fine as long as every pays the hell attention

[hydras]

I refuse to go to heroics if the tank has less than 25k hp and 25k is still low for the harder ones imo...

25K is more than enough for any heroic. with buffs they will easily end at 27-28K and as long as healer is not retarted and tank is def capped, they will be fine. I have been in runs with tanks that had almost 30K HP that had multiple wipes because he sucked as a tank, and I have runs where tank barely had 23K with buffs, but knew his stuff, never lost aggro, and saved the groups from wipes.

for heroics skill > gear. thats why you will see a mage in all blues out dps a T7.5 huntard , mage knows what he is doing, hunter just stands there and autoshots... (just an example i remember occurring recently, not bashing hunters here)

[Mikah]

I refuse to go to heroics if the tank has less than 25k hp and 25k is still low for the harder ones imo...

Seriously??? People who need such a tank sucks themselves. If you can pull proper dps, the bosses are going down so fast it doesn't even matter what the tank is wearing. Both tanks and DPS can pretty much faceroll and aoe everything in heroics without even knowing what mobs are doing. And with all the buffs to tank threat and the tools everyone has to reset aggro, you are a very crappy dpser if you pull aggro.

Anyways, here are a few of my reasons to leave:

1) Swe? (You have no idea how often I get invited to a group and get that. Maybe it's my name?)

2) *Loud Gargle Gargle Gargle* on voice com. Then long Pause. Then other players asking me why I don't answer.

3) If anyone uses the word Dirge, Penis or Fuck by the time I start the instance, I'm out.

4) VoA10 class run. Join group, and there are 2 others of my class (of course it's never the raid leader).

5) VH heroic. Enter instance. Get the message you will be saved. Then get the group leader to admit they've wiped several times on the 2nd boss and a few players left.

6) Anytime I get someone asking if he can have priority on X piece of loot because he neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds it really bad. Usually it's always from the 1st or 2nd boss and you can be sure whether it drops or not, he will leave right after.


I could go on for a while.. But anyways. I love PuGs. I don't understand why everyone are against it? I find it very relaxing myself, and it's often really entertaining. You guys are probably entering every heroics hoping it will be steamrolled in 20minutes by a T8 geared group. Personally, when I run an heroic, it's because I'm not in the mood of playing with the same intensity as our progression raids and sometimes it is really, really funny to realize how clueless some players are.

I guess it depends what you define as entertainment!

[Soulbender]

5) VH heroic. Enter instance. Get the message you will be saved. Then get the group leader to admit they've wiped several times on the 2nd boss and a few players left.

good point! if you see the "saved" message, something smells of old socks

[getefix]

Only 20k? I wouldn't pug with any tank that has less than 30k hp. Even healers and dps can get up to 20k hp.

30k is not required for heroics. 28k is fine. 22k is not.

When people start spam whispering you: "are you gonna roll on ----- can you pass plz? plz? can you pass plz? hello?"

When all the DPS are rogues

This happened to me last week: Doing a pug 10 man OS because I was bored, and the guy who's doing it keeps saying "Link stats and achiev" in the trade spam. He's cleared 10 man OS so I suppose I can understand it. Once we clear the first mob someone gets the idea "Lets do 2 drakes. We have good DPS". We had 3 people doing 3-4k on trash and they felt it was good enough to do drakes. I caved and said "Fine, I'll tank 1 drake and all the fire + whelp adds. This is where you stand, this is where I stand, etc". I was the only one who had ever even seen another drake land. We very barely did one drake. Next reset I see him spamming in trade: "LFM 10 man OS 3 drakes! Link stats + achiev please". Sigh...

[Greywulf]

I had one yesterday I need to get off of my chest...

Was sitting in LFG with my 76 alt shammy, duel spec ele/resto. I get a /w "Can you heal VH?". Sure I reply, and get an invite into a group of 2 rogues and a warlock. Staright away there's 2 "Can I get a summon plz?" I point out, quite calmly, that we cannot summon to VH cos there is no summon stone. Thw Warlock (group leader) then points out hes not even got the Dalaran Flight Point, so he'll make his way there on foot...
After about another miniute we get a 74 DK invited in as tank. "Oh great" I think, cos I basically hate healing most DK's I've partied with. The 2 rogues by this time have got their act together and arrived in Dalaran. The warlocks made his way to the teleport gem under dalaran but then realises he cannot use it yet. The DK chirps up and suggests we use the WG summon stone. "Good idea!" I think, then spend next 10 mins trying to get one of the rogues to follow me through the WG portal to WG.
"Why? I'm in dalaran with you?"
"yeah I know but we're going to try and use the summon stone...etc" I tried to explain but neither of them had obviously been to WG Fortress before. Finally they both (reluctantly) follow me through the portal. I jump on ther teleport pad and enter the fortress heading for the summon stone.

"Open the doors to the Fortress for me plz!" Asks one of the rogues....I driect him to the pad.

Once one of them had finally got into the fortress we attempt to summon the warlock but ( and I should have realised this) I'm too low level to use the stone!

"Scrap that idea guys, we cannot use the stone" I explain.

"I am confused!" Announces one of the rogues as he stands facing the corner of the fortesss room.

I jump back through the violet hold portal and one of the rogues has the sense to follow me, so us 2 are back in dalaran. The DK has arrived by this point.

"Bascially we cannot do VH guys, I really don't understand your logic in putting together a group to do an instance you don't have access too, tbh..."

There is talk go calling it, I suggest we go do AN, everyone cheers and off we go.

The DK and I arrive at the summon stone as AN. I notice our confused rogue is still stuck in WG Fortress, unable to work out how to exit it...

By this point I am shitting my pants on how the instance will go. Luckily, the DK turned out to be an alt of someone I knew from a good guild.

Weirdly enough the instance went great. I was totally shocked.


I guess the moral of this story is never judge a player by their noobness before you actually see them perform.

[YigiBareTank]

If they say "men" or "guys", They suck.

That's probably the WORST logic i've ever heard.
What could possibly be your reasoning behind that? lol.
And as far as tanks, 23k buffed is more than enough to tank a heroic if the healer has any skill at all. I hit 80 on my druid the same time my resto sham friend did and we did most heroics (i wouldn't try OK or HoS in this gear, but most) with 24k health (as bear) and shammy with 1100 spellpower.
Skill > Gear.

[Deleted]

I refuse to go to heroics if the tank has less than 25k hp and 25k is still low for the harder ones imo...

I did Lightning Struck, first heroic, 30minutes after dinging 80, still mostly level 70 epics.

People are overestimating hitpoints for heroics. As long as you're a good player, which Hp is no indication of, you can lower incoming damage when it'll get nasty to a point where it's laughable.

Sure, you can judge experience and knowledge based on HP, but that can seriously end up biting you in the ass, considering that any retard can go as 'offtank' to naxx25, get loot, and get said 30k unbuffed.

Besides, you reach the required EH for heroics at about 21k, that removes the possbility of being bursted down, then add buffs.

[Deleted]

Yes you can.

If any of the people is unable to do what the Group/Raid Leader says, then it's doomed to fail.
Sometimes you can't pick them out before the first boss, though.

[telemain]

Well I was running UK normal on my dk alt yesterday, and I could tell right away that it was going to be horrendous. The healer, a pala with 8k mana and apparently only one healing spell was running around grabbing the Vrykul weapons for one of the quests. In the middle of fights. He was of the impression that they only appeared in the first couple of rooms when they are all over the instance. He caused us to wipe twice because he wasn't healing the tank. As it turns out, he only did 2k more healing than the ret pala with us, and he hardly touched his healing spells...

hahahahaha. I healed heroics just fine with 9k mana at 80. Freshly dinged, went through a whole bunch just fine. Only had problems with the retard tank that had 510 defense. Not much I can do about some retard not even at the def cap. Your paladin healer may have been bad, but thinking you need more than 8k for UK REGULAR is friggin hilarious.