Need some help regarding combat.

[Kaen]

Hey guys.
The thing is I've been back and forth between combat and mutilate and I always felt that mutilate was better.
When I am mutilate I use Anarchy and WD and i thougt that the difference was because my muti weps were better than the combat ones.
The other day i picked up Calamity's Grasp and using CG/WD. However even with this upgrade I cant seem to reach the same dps as i did with mutilate.
I use 3snd/5r/5e and I keep that rotation pretty steady. I also use KS and AD with BF quite often. I struggle when I try to reach 4k, but when I was muti I didnt have any problems at all getting 4k+.

Any tips on what I am doing wrong? Is muti just simply better or?
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...lnazzar&n=Kaen

If theres something with the gear I would appreciate comments. I have to say that I use the same gear for both specs.

[Balkir]

i find 5s/5r/5e to be a better rotation myself. Using 3s/5r/5e means that SnD is likely dropping off, and that is where you are losing dps.

[zerovampire311]

Not necessarily, given the amount of haste and crit we have, it's pretty easy to maintain that, I usually get 2 eviscerates in before I need to refresh SnD.

As to your dps, You should be able to pull 4.5k+ in that kinda gear, are there other factors that may be affecting you? Lack of raid buffs? Poor connection?

[NonMagical]

Not necessarily, given the amount of haste and crit we have, it's pretty easy to maintain that, I usually get 2 eviscerates in before I need to refresh SnD.

If by "usually" you mean "rarely". Sorry but a 3-point SnD will not give you a long enough window to do a 5-point rupture, 2 5-point eviscerates, and another 3-point SnD before it drops off. You have to get some mad luck with crits + SS glyph to do that.

Edit: For clarification with no glyph and 2/2 Imp SnD a 3 combo point SnD is 23 seconds long. GL generating 3 combo points every 4 seconds.

Edit 2: Just for fun I tried to see how many combo points I could generate on average in 23 seconds starting from a full energy bar (IE I built up 3 combo points, filled my energy, and then blew SnD) on a target dummy.

Trials: 9, 13, 11, 12, 14, 11

I even tried once with AR and only got 17.

Edit 3: LOL You are fist/sword spec.

[Ryuuji]

If by "usually" you mean "rarely". Sorry but a 3-point SnD will not give you a long enough window to do a 5-point rupture, 2 5-point eviscerates, and another 3-point SnD before it drops off. You have to get some mad luck with crits + SS glyph to do that.

Edit: For clarification with no glyph and 2/2 Imp SnD a 3 combo point SnD is 23 seconds long. GL generating 3 combo points every 4 seconds.

Edit 2: Just for fun I tried to see how many combo points I could generate on average in 23 seconds starting from a full energy bar (IE I built up 3 combo points, filled my energy, and then blew SnD) on a target dummy.

Trials: 9, 13, 11, 12, 14, 11

I even tried once with AR and only got 17.

Edit 3: LOL You are fist/sword spec.

Technically speaking, your CP generation will be higher in raids due to Kings, LotP, MotW, etc.
More Crit More CP's

But still, Yeah I normally get another evisc in when I use AR, then move into my next cycle more quickly.

[zerovampire311]

Edit 3: LOL You are fist/sword spec.

Webbed Death and Golem Shard Sticker don't exist for my guild ;_; Fist/Sword >> CG/LPC.

If by "usually" you mean "rarely".

I open 3/5/5, then depending on how much time I have left, I go for a 4/5 point evisc and then restack points for a 3-5 SnD, however much I can get without dropping off. Eventually I'm running 5/5/5+etcetc. Also, many rogues make the bad call of only blowing evisc if they have 5, letting shit drop off, 4 is still an increase in dps, and the dps loss from dropping SnD/Rupture is much worse.

[NonMagical]

Technically speaking, your CP generation will be higher in raids due to Kings, LotP, MotW, etc.
More Crit More CP's

You won't be generating an additional 6 combo points on average with raid buffs. :P

[zerovampire311]

You won't be generating an additional 6 combo points on average with raid buffs. :P

It's not that uncommon with 50-60% crit. Throw in a few CP procs and it's really not that tough to get.

[NonMagical]

It's not that uncommon with 50-60% crit. Throw in a few CP procs and it's really not that tough to get.

Yes. It is uncommon. Considering I did those tests with 45% unbuffed crit. And like you said, "Throw in a few CP procs". You'd need more than a few.

Napkin math time! 23 seconds is 230 energy. Let's assume your OH hits once a second and you have an 10% miss rate. That's ~20 successful hits and at 20% proc for Combat Potency, that's 4 procs. That's 60 energy. Let's even assume you proc Relentless Strikes every finisher. You said you have 4 finishers (SnD, Rupture, Eviscerate, Eviscerate).

230+60+100 = 390 energy. Let's minus the cost of finishers (25 + 35 + 35 + 25 = 120 energy). 390 - 120 = 270 energy. Now let's see how many Sinister Strikes you could fit into that amount of energy (in tier 8 gear). 270/40 = 6.75 Sinister Strikes. Aka 6 combo points.

But you crit, right? Let's assume you crit 50% (to make this simple). That means of those 6 Sinister Strikes, 3 probably crit and of those perhaps 2 procced the glyph (to give you benefit of the doubt). Mhmm.. that makes 8 combo points. BUT WAIT. You probably procced a few ruthlessness with those 4 finishers. Hell, let's assumed you procced ALL OF THEM. That puts you at 12 combo points generated.



That was fun.

Edit: I knew I overlooked something. The Vitality talent increases energy regeneration rate by 25% which would explain why this napkin math was falling short of my actual tests. But 25% energy regen is no where NEAR capable of the 18 combo points needed for your supposed rotation.

In fact, you can simply do 230 + (230*.25) = 287.5 energy, or 447.5 total energy to work with in that window. That's 327.5 energy after finishers and allows for 8 Sinister Strikes. So raise my 12 combo point estimate to 14.

[zerovampire311]

Just another factor to point out, OH speed is realistically around .5-.6 (Assuming 1.4-1.5 speed, 40% SnD, 20% Windfury, and 10%ish haste rating), so there's substantially more CP Energy. You're also not factoring how I said my rotation is, in that I open 3s/5r/5e, then go 5s/5r/5e/5e. At that point, you have plenty of time for 2 Eviscerates and still refresh 4-5 point SnDs.

Also, chill out, you only make yourself look like a jag when you bust out the mathematics to fuel pointless forum arguments in a thread formed to help someone.

[NonMagical]

Just another factor to point out, OH speed is realistically around .5-.6 (Assuming 1.4-1.5 speed, 40% SnD, 20% Windfury, and 10%ish haste rating), so there's substantially more CP Energy. You're also not factoring how I said my rotation is, in that I open 3s/5r/5e, then go 5s/5r/5e/5e. At that point, you have plenty of time for 2 Eviscerates and still refresh 4-5 point SnDs.

Also, chill out, you only make yourself look like a jag when you bust out the mathematics to fuel pointless forum arguments in a thread formed to help someone.

Just.... No. Even with a 0.5 speed OH that's an extra 60 energy to work with. And a 5 point SnD is 32 seconds long, meaning an extra 90+(90*.25)= 112.5 energy. 182.5 extra energy, or ~5-6 combo points. While if some things in your favor (such as relentless strikes) this would put you at your mark (now 20 combo points due to the 5 point SnD's), it wouldn't be the majority of the time. And by trying to fit in that extra eviscerate you would accidentally drop SnD and/or have to renew it at 3 or 4 combo points, thus screwing up the whole system.

Edit: But enough of the math and arguing. Keep doing your dream cycle all you want buddy. Any spreadsheet will tell you that 5/5/5 isn't the best rotation anyway, and you should be doing 3-4/5/5 and cutting out an eviscerate. Otherwise your rupture is going to drop off for vast majorities of time. Oh yeah, I never took that into account. Your 5 point rupture (with glyph) is 19 seconds. Or 20. I forget. Have fun fitting generating 20 combo points (2 eviscerates and a renew of SnD) in that 20 seconds window. One combo point a second shouldn't be hard, should it?

[J50]

You come onto here and ask why your dps sucks when you have a 2.6MH fist and a 2.6OH Sword.... Your hit is way over what it should be and you use an 8 crit 12 stam gem and dont try to match sockets when the bonus is 8 agi. I mean its your own fault your not good. Combat = Cmb Potency = Fail 2.6 OH. That's about it.

[THEMAVER1CK]

You come onto here and ask why your dps sucks when you have a 2.6MH fist and a 2.6OH Sword.... Your hit is way over what it should be and you use an 8 crit 12 stam gem and dont try to match sockets when the bonus is 8 agi. I mean its your own fault your not good. Combat = Cmb Potency = Fail 2.6 OH. That's about it.

He stated that he was using Calamity's Grasp and Webbed Death in his original post and his armory has him using just that so i'm not sure what you are talking about man. In defence of his 8 crit 12 stam gem, although i dont know if thats the way he should achieve it, he has that to activate his meta.

[Crazhr]

I cant explain why you lack dps. Could be hardware, connection, luck or anything else atleast I cant see anything that screams mistake. I did notice a minor thing that you got enginering but are using 44 ap enchant I may be wrong but last time I checked the haste was abit better then the ap enchant that could give you abit more but like I said I dont know.

The only thing is maybe runspeed. You are using 12crit/hit if you are using fleet footed in mut then that could be atleast a few houndred dps on movement fights.

[Ryuuji]

I cant explain why you lack dps. Could be hardware, connection, luck or anything else atleast I cant see anything that screams mistake. I did notice a minor thing that you got enginering but are using 44 ap enchant I may be wrong but last time I checked the haste was abit better then the ap enchant that could give you abit more but like I said I dont know.

The only thing is maybe runspeed. You are using 12crit/hit if you are using fleet footed in mut then that could be atleast a few houndred dps on movement fights.

No, it couldn't be a few hundred DPS. Not ever.

Anyway, @ OP

There are a few things that could be causing it, not pooling energy, wrong poisons(Use WP/DP), letting SnD Drop. Moving to 4s/5r/5e allows for a good amount of energy pooling.