what do you think of the new changes?

[khlg]

what the title syas what do you think of the new pally
changes??

i like them but thats just me.

[Sunstrikeisretlawl]

they better do something good with command, because currently, the seal is pretty aweful. not much redesigning, unless making it a talented seal of blood, is going to make it better, it's still extremely weak in comparison, oh well.

[Mysmere]

what the title syas what do you think of the new pally
changes??

i like them but thats just me.

they add nothing. add a symbol to your powerbars so you actually care about art of war. profit.
the new damage system isn't interesting, just more button pushing, still no priority system.
it does lower initial burst, but only assuming it doesn't crit.. gogo exo

waiting on what new socom actually does

"If the changes outlined above finally accomplish the goal of balancing Retribution in PvE and PvP, then we can start exploring those other design issues."

lf non retardation.


oh btw, if any of you actually expect a decent utility upgrade, theyre gonna have to swap more of our pve dps to consecration and add a dmg cap to it to not make it op. same single dps assuming boss is stationary, but less smack in the face dmg.

[Ravasha]

Inb4 nerf after changes are made.

The Exorcism change will probably provide a 'QQ Overload', which will get Exorcism nerfed.

[Kairu]

Inb4 nerf after changes are made.

The Exorcism change will probably provide a 'QQ Overload', which will get Exorcism nerfed.

This. CS is reduced to reduce burst, but using Exo (though mana heavy) will now be some insane burst in pvp.

[grymgroeth]

I like that ardent defender will actually be worth specing into for it's location on the prot tree. Exorcism picking up a casting time takes it completely out of use for tanks other than pulling so I'm less than thrilled by that change but I'll go back to simply not casting it during combat. Sanctuary getting buffed is all good because it's already my blessing of choice as a tank. Holy changes look good overall, ret changes hinge on what happens to Command.

[iktankniet]

i say they are not yet 100%. but what they are doing is..well not what i expected. SoB gone and SoC/V buffed.

exorcism change was kinda expected to change again. but how much dmg it will deal or if the cd stays the same is ???

CS change - if it gets no interesting secondary effect, DS just gotten more important in our rotation. more CS = more chance on crits = more AoW = more instant healing/exorcism. this is a boost to pve and pvp.

vindication - instead of stats reduction, we get a passive ap debuff on the target. nice when fighting melee, but casters/healers... :-\ anyway, it is a pve utility buff.

SoB/V gone and SoCoM buffed - well, this requires actual numbers before any1 can say something about it. lets hope they remove the ppm.

[loyalty]

I find it odd that none of you complain about the removal of seal of maytr/blood?

Thats a huge nerf brings pallys back to pre BC lol.

[Mysmere]

I find it odd that none of you complain about the removal of seal of maytr/blood?

Thats a huge nerf brings pallys back to pre BC lol.

how does it do that. you know theyre buffing our other seals to compensate. all we really lose is the recoil in pve, but we might lose a lot in pvp assuming they fuck up socom...(which is probable)

[BDF]

Well it looks like a small buff for PvE dps anyway

CS may have had its damage nerf'd, but with the shorter CD there will almost never be time to sit on our thumbs and wait for a move. It seems like DS and Judgement may become a bit more important as well.

A small plus for sustained damage.

Though they better do something nice with seal of command

[grymgroeth]

Nobody's complaining yet because they havent said how Command will be changed to replace them. Given all the complaints about how useless Command has been, it's very much a wait and see situation for ret with this announcement.

I find it odd that none of you complain about the removal of seal of maytr/blood?

Thats a huge nerf brings pallys back to pre BC lol.

[khlg]

Hmm just thinking this made prot pally wearing
holy armor even better they now have a hot not
a big hot but still. Also they have more dmg abilites to
use what do youse think?

[Kairu]

how does it do that. you know theyre buffing our other seals to compensate. all we really lose is the recoil in pve, but we might lose a lot in pvp assuming they fuck up socom...(which is probable)

This.


As long as those DoTs start ticking for not-crap amounts, and it boosts judgement damage a little bit more, it would actually seem like viable (non-bursty) damage, that wouldn't be wanted in PvP, basically fixing our problems.

[Monteverdi]

RIP Exorcism as a threat spell

[Terrab]

I can't speak to the ret changes but did holy and prot really need the buffs.

In a raid setting holy paladins never run out of mana and can still put out insane heals even when limited to one (two with beacon) targets. Let me say it again they never run out of mana. They really need to look at seal/judgement of wisdom too. Make them base mana or something. If a paladin has 20k mana (which is a little low for a pally) that puts the seal returning 800 mana and the judgement returning 400 mana.

And do prot pallys really need the passive last stand ability. Lets compare the talents.

Last Stand Ardent Defender
Active Passive
3 minute cooldown 2 minute cooldown
Health is lost after duration is over Health remains
Damage taken below 35% health is reduced by 30%.

I think I'd take ardent defender.

[Kairu]

RIP Exorcism as a threat spell

It was only used//can still be used on the original pull anyway. It did pathetic threat if you used it as part of the 969

[Mysmere]

Hmm just thinking this made prot pally wearing
holy armor even better they now have a hot not
a big hot but still. Also they have more dmg abilites to
use what do youse think?

im assuming the hot is a talent in the holy tree. would be strange to give ret two hots

[Kairu]

I can't speak to the ret changes but did holy and prot really need the buffs.

In a raid setting holy paladins never run out of mana and can still put out insane heals even when limited to one (two with beacon) targets. Let me say it again they never run out of mana. They really need to look at seal/judgement of wisdom too. Make them base mana or something. If a paladin has 20k mana (which is a little low for a pally) that puts the seal returning 800 mana and the judgement returning 400 mana.

And do prot pallys really need the passive last stand ability. Lets compare the talents.

Last Stand Ardent Defender
Active Passive
3 minute cooldown 2 minute cooldown
Health is lost after duration is over Health remains
Damage taken below 35% health is reduced by 30%.

I think I'd take ardent defender.

They have enraged regen, we have lay on hands. Cooldowns? Yeah... thats right.

[khlg]

im assuming the hot is a talent in the holy tree. would be strange to give ret two hots

good point didnt think of that.

[Thark]

Overall I really like the proposed changes. I think that the protection and retribution changes look good.

From a tanking perspective, I like the AD changes. Being leapfrogged was always a concern, but nothing I had any control over so it wasn't a major concern of mine. The second part, a mini Divine Guardian, is a pretty big change. While it's not a mitigation cooldown which I really wanted, it pretty much accomplishes the same thing. Current design has fights with hits which are just too big to take. You rely on your own mitigation cooldowns (I have one and the HOS glyph for a second), or external cooldowns. This accomplishes almost the same thing, as a tank with 40k HP taking a 50k attack will normally die, but in this situation will be left with 12k (or potentially 2k, seeing as how the attack would trigger the 30% reduction effect, and only hit for 38k, still leaving the killing blow cooldown active). Either way, it's a big change, and would be great for current fights like General, Steelbreaker, or Thorim.

Block being increased is nice, but probably more of a threat boost than survival boost. Good for both though.

From the Ret side, if they remove the 15s cooldown from Exorcism, then I see it playing out pretty nicely. You can use your normal attacks until you get a proc and then choose what to do. Hopefully this comes out well.

I don't heal, so no comments there.

The part which I read and hated is the following: "We are buffing Seal of Vengeance / Corruption and redesigning Seal of Command with the expectation that these are now the seals of choice for PvP and PvE. Righteousness can remain a tanking seal" Does the person who posted this play a paladin, or are they 4 steps ahead of us in redesigning things? Currently Blood is the PVE DPS seal, Command is supposed to be the PVP DPS seal, Righteousness is the Holy Paladin DPS seal, and Corruption is the tanking seal. This post comes across like Corruption is a PVP DPS seal, Command a PVE DPS seal, and Righteousness a tanking seal. Entirely incorrect. I like Corruption as a tanking seal. I absolutely do not want to have Righteousness be the new tanking seal, as it currently scales based off of primarily spellpower. That's entirely contradictory to my gear. I think that either the poster got seals mixed up, or there are some other major changes they didn't quite announce that make this make sense. It's a big blemish on an otherwise nice post.