Ret DPS changes (given Blues)

[iktankniet]

New DPS spec, given the changes we've seen to current talents, spells, and abilities.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...3&version=9947

I have about 5 leftover points: I tossed them in 3/3 Healing Light and 2/2 Divinity, for a 14% increased self-healing.

imp healing in the holy tree is bad. its not like our survivability is bad as it is.

a 5/10/56 seems more raid viable. or a 5/9/57 for SoC.

minor glyph of wisdom as ret? :-\ i hope you made a mistake.
sense undead might as well be left out and get kings instead. its nice to buff the raids with kings without having to drink to do the last 3 classes.

at least there are more options/choices for ret to do with the trees

[Babypost]

Can anyone confirm if vengeance/corruption jugdement is dependent on the number of stacks? Hope not :-[

[iktankniet]

Can anyone confirm if vengeance/corruption jugdement is dependent on the number of stacks? Hope not :-[

it already was, so i think it stays the same.

[Saurus]

My favourite:

Ret Depth is about 3 inches

I may have misunderstood but I thought the goal was to make ret have more depth rather than the button spamming face rolling spec that it is today.

The current changes Do nothing to increase ret Depth AoW procs Giving you the option of FoL or Exorcism is not a choice because the answer is always Exorcism. That is if you have a global cooldown.

CS going to 4 seconds with our global cooldown at 1.5 takes the old problem of all our cooldowns running into eachother and makes it worse. We still spam buttons with no regard to which one we're pressing. We will get 5 stacks of Vengeance up and we will hit whatever comes up first and if we have a global to spare we'll pop off a art of war proc'd exorcism but that will rarely ever happen.

You have succeeded in reducing ret paladin burst damage in PvP at a heavy cost. In PvE Our single target damage will either idle where it currently is or go down. Our No thought AoE which was where we shined as a class will still require no thought but now will be not worth mentioning. with Judgement of Light dead to us the only raid utility we bring is 3% Damage and 3% haste which means we bring no more of a buff than most Pures(and less than some) and still suffer the hybrid tax.

Ret needed the Burst nerf I don't deny that. But what it really needed was a more complex and challenging combat system that required skill. What you have is a Face Roll spec that doesn't have any offensive utility and whose defensive utility doesn't win arena matches and still gets nerfed at every turn. In PvE we'll be lucky to maintain our place as Middle of the pack(among hybrids).

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1789...-3-inches.html

[Babypost]

it already was, so i think it stays the same.

But the seal was "redesigned" and the patch notes don't say anything about it.

[gringo]

My favourite:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1789...-3-inches.html

Pretty much my thoughts about the Ret changes. Can only hope the buff the dot of SoV.

[Ronark]

imp healing in the holy tree is bad. its not like our survivability is bad as it is.

a 5/10/56 seems more raid viable. or a 5/9/57 for SoC.

minor glyph of wisdom as ret? :-\ i hope you made a mistake.
sense undead might as well be left out and get kings instead. its nice to buff the raids with kings without having to drink to do the last 3 classes.

at least there are more options/choices for ret to do with the trees

Yeah it was dont at 1am in the morning before I went to bed, minors should be Might, Sense UD, and LoH.... You'll need Sense UD AGAIN for when Icecrown comes out so might as well keep it... besides Mage food is free, and it takes a whole 4 seconds to refill our mana bar completely. As I said, you'll have 5 points leftover, I just put them in HL and 2/5 Divinity for self-healing and soloing purposes.

But the seal was "redesigned" and the patch notes don't say anything about it.

Pretty much my thoughts about the Ret changes. Can only hope the buff the dot of SoV.

The Judgement component won't change more likely than not. The DoT will probably scale more with AP and less with SP, making hopefully the 5 stack tick for 25k over 15 seconds maybe when raid buffed? Also dont forget that (currently) the seal does extra damage if the target is already at 5 stacks.

My favourite:

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1789...-3-inches.html

Given the changes to SoVeng, it is actually a Single-target DPS INCREASE.

[RPGfan251]

Potential Glyph changes:
SoVeng: Can still possibly give Expertise rating when used... maybe increases the amount it stacks on the target by X, or reduce the time for the DoT to tick by Y?
Crusader Strike: Increases its damage by X, rather than reducing mana cost.
Exorcism: Probably the same. If burst in PvP is too high, it could reduce it's cooldown by 5 seconds instead of providing 20% more damage (this provides a gain in Steady DPS, but a reduction in Burst DPS).
**NEW**Glyph of Seal of Command would be changed accordingly. Causes the Paladin to gain 8% of base mana each time the paladin judges Command.
**NEW** Glyph of Seal of Blood: Changed to Glyph of Holy Wrath, which reduces its cooldown by 15 seconds.

The vindication change seems alright.... but it would be rendered useless against Caster-type mobs. We'll have to wait it out and see what they do with it.

Thoughts?

10expertise not rating that makes it IMBA esp with drwarf racial only need 11 from gear then (5 racial, 10 glyph)

[Iradain]

New build would be:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...4&version=9947
Only issue about this is mana.

[Kuthumii]

We still have only 3 things that benefit from ArP: CS, DS, and White hits.

It'll probably stay where it is at now, stat-wise.

Since a shorter CD on CS, CS will move up as a DPS source. Hence ArP will be worth more, how much more? Probably not a ton but enough to move it.

New DPS spec, given the changes we've seen to current talents, spells, and abilities.

Your spec throws out the utility of Sacrifice for a minor increase to self healing?

Horrible spec. Horrible idea.

The spec in the post above me is much better than yours.

[Ronark]

Since a shorter CD on CS, CS will move up as a DPS source. Hence ArP will be worth more, how much more? Probably not a ton but enough to move it.

Your spec throws out the utility of Sacrifice for a minor increase to self healing?

Horrible spec. Horrible idea.

The spec in the post above me is much better than yours.

My spec also included Vindication, which would mean a permanent -X AP on trash and bosses. If you run with Vindication, you don't have enough points to grab DSacrifice.

[SolaronTich]

Kuthumii do you ever have anything useful to post, or do you just get off wasting forum space telling people they're wrong? :

[tjanson]

My spec also included Vindication, which would mean a permanent -X AP on trash and bosses. If you run with Vindication, you don't have enough points to grab DSacrifice.

It's probably still not worth it honestly, at least not in a raid environment. Divine Sacrifice is pretty huge for a lot of fights, and two of the four(right? I didn't think DKs and paladins had it but correct me if I'm wrong here) tanking classes can keep up the AP debuff anyway.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm at this point frankly curious as to how we're expected to compete in Arena... we have no idea exactly what the Judgement on Command is going to hit for, but going from 48% weapon damage to 36% weapon damage hurts bad.

[Ronark]

Napkin math, since I'm bored.

Statement: The "importance" of ArP would marginally increase.

Given the known conditions:
Weapon: 2 hand Polearm, 1000min-1000max (1000.00 DPS)
100% hits (no misses/glances/dodges/parries/crits)
Mob base armor: 100,000

Our Old CS:
Cooldown: 6 Seconds
Damage: 110%
Cooldowns per Minute: 10

So we deal 10*1.1*1000= 11,000 CS damage with 0 ArP

New CS:
Cooldown: 4 Seconds
Damage: 75%
Cooldowns per Minute: 15

So we deal 15*.75*1000= 11,250 CS damage, or an extra 1/4 weapon damage with 0 ArP

So, in theory, ArP will give us 8.3% more benefit (1/3*1/4).

[Ronark]

It's probably still not worth it honestly, at least not in a raid environment. Divine Sacrifice is pretty huge for a lot of fights, and two of the four(right? I didn't think DKs and paladins had it but correct me if I'm wrong here) tanking classes can keep up the AP debuff anyway.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm at this point frankly curious as to how we're expected to compete in Arena... we have no idea exactly what the Judgement on Command is going to hit for, but going from 48% weapon damage to 36% weapon damage hurts bad.

Druids and Warriors can keep up the Debuff, but a Warrior will more likely than not either A.) Not use the Rage and GCD on it or B.) Use Comm shout. Also, I think only Bear form druids can keep up the debuff.

[Kuthumii]

Kuthumii do you ever have anything useful to post, or do you just get off wasting forum space telling people they're wrong? :

Actually, yes. Try reviewing my post history. Sad thing is, you complaining about me not posting anything useful.........is the exact same thing. Hypocrite much?

-X AP isn't better than Div Sac. Period. Removing a small portion of a bosses AP isn't nearly as useful as removing 30% of raid damage for 10s.

Again, horrible spec.

[Ronark]

Actually, yes. Try reviewing my post history. Sad thing is, you complaining about me not posting anything useful.........is the exact same thing. Hypocrite much?

-X AP isn't better than Div Sac. Period. Removing a small portion of a bosses AP isn't nearly as useful as removing 30% of raid damage for 10s.

Again, horrible spec.

SHH its a tactic for gaining more Forum post-counters

I could say that ANY spec for 3.2 is horrible as we don't know what will be in 3.2.

[Kuthumii]

SHH its a tactic for gaining more Forum post-counters Cheesy

I could say that ANY spec for 3.2 is horrible as we don't know what will be in 3.2.

>.>

As of now there is one spec that looks to be the future but as the PTR isn't up and things will change. So will the new spec. Hell, part of Ronark's spec might become valid if Vind gets buffed........though I don't see that happening.

[alexke]

I could say that ANY spec for 3.2 is horrible as we don't know what will be in 3.2.

I think your calculations are correct for Crusader Strike. So ArP will be of more use.

I would like to know more of the seals,
but like you said, there isn't anything you kan know for sure, so we'll have to wait.

The chances that are coming aren't sure.
Some stuff can change.

Just wait for the PTR.

[enbee]

Druids and Warriors can keep up the Debuff, but a Warrior will more likely than not either A.) Not use the Rage and GCD on it or B.) Use Comm shout. Also, I think only Bear form druids can keep up the debuff.

lol.