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  1. #1

    Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Just thought id ge that out there? Wondering why they gave the 2sec CD glyph just to add 2 secs back to the spell lol

  2. #2

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I thought the same, they just could've removed the glyph.

  3. #3
    The Patient Iannis's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    Because penance was so good that ended up the only heal cast by priests in pvp.
    Glad I don't care about pvp and the changes won't bother my pve performance....oh wait -_-

  4. #4

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    Because penance was so good that ended up the only heal cast by priests in pvp.
    if the priests you go against only needed to use penance you my friend or your partner fucking fail big time, I had to use renew Prayer Bubble Flash heal and sometimes greater heal when they werent near me. Yes Penance is awesome but i mean its our 51 point talent its supposed toi be good. With MS my 2.9k Penances turn into 1450 EACH TICK so around 4500 every 6.4 seconds how the hell is that all a priest needs to use in pvp? you're just fucking horrible

  5. #5

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I feel sorry for all you disc priest doing PvE. Only reason they nerfed penance was because the endless QQ about disc being OP in PvP. And like OP said, why give us the glyph in the first place when they just even it out with the increased CD ???
    They should just had removed the glyph instead.

  6. #6

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Yeah. I could drudge up the post just prior 3.1 where they said PvP was "fixed" and no longer required the Penance Glyph Nerf, but I'm just kinda tired of the wtf lines that come out of these patch notes.

    Initial 3.1 PTR Penance w/ glyph: 6.4sec Penance CD

    Mid 3.1 PTR Penance w/ glyph: 8sec Penance CD w/ 5% extra crit

    Final 3.1 launch Penance w/ glyph: 6.4sec Penance CD

    Initial 3.2 PTR Penance w/ glyph: 8sec Penance CD


    I ask you... is the 1.6sec REALLY make or breaking anything? If not... why touch it. If the CD is a big deal, why not just change the damn glyph instead of changing the base CD?

    It really isnt even the nerf that gets me tbh, its just the piss poor way of going about it.

    The "assumed reason" for the nerf, however, does get me a little ticked. One cannot keep micro managing PvP while trying to sustain continuity in PvE.

    Acceptable: The 1.6 quicker CD on Penance was trivializing PvE encounters for a vast majority of raiding guilds. This was not the intent.
    The 1.6 quicker CD on Penance was trivializing the experience for a vast majority of PvPer in BGs and Arenas. This was not the intent.

    Not Acceptable: The 1.6 quicker CD on Penance was allowing *some* (read top 100 2v2 teams) to have a significant advantage.

  7. #7

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    4500 a second (more like 6000 if you are not green geared noob) is really good, and not every class has a MS effect so it goes to wooping 12k with some crits.
    Your "wooping" 12k crit is peanuts in PvE. Players aren't bosses, ergo, nerfing healing to make PvP balanced is unsustainable. What players have that bosses do not is brains and a much larger variety of abilities. Use all your tools and the 1.6sec on Penance will seem trivial.

  8. #8

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    4500 a second (more like 6000 if you are not green geared noob) is really good, and not every class has a MS effect so it goes to wooping 12k with some crits.
    I was whooping a nice 2200-2300 Spellpower in pvp gear, my penances would HIGHEST non crit was like 3.1k, 4.5k crits, Its a 1.6 sec cast so like around 8.5k to 9k non crit, around 13k IF THEY ALL CRIT tif one crits it isnt a guranteed crit for the other 2. while that may be a lot with an MS it makes it a laughable 6.5k heal every 6.4 seconds IF THEY ALL CRIT penance is fine the way it is.

  9. #9

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    Penance havent become to trivial to the best of the best players in the world , but you know the way around for sure. Figures talk for themselves- priests' representation in arenas was over the top, what's the first spell to nerf, that both bad and good priest spam? What if the spell that any good priest will tell you, made priests easy mode in PvP , comparing to TBC and dumbed class down? Penance, so dont be surprised that it gets nerfed, be glad you have a class that is a bit more complicated than penance spam off cd.
    Show me the numbers for priest over-representation outside the top 100 teams.

    What made priests strong in 3.1 PVP was the revamp of PW:S, not Penance. Adding 1.6sec to Penance will NOT "micro-tweak" balance into the system.

    What this nerf will do, however, is make PvE disco priests COMPLETELY re-itemize their haste.

    Plus, there will ALWAYS be a "flavor of the season" class. There will never be perfect representation by all classes. One class will be over-represented for one reason or another.

    All I ask is for them to freakin' pick a plateau and say THERE. If priests are underrepresented at that point in PvP... i could care a less... just tired of this game being run like some champion of "social justice."

  10. #10

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moltage
    if the priests you go against only needed to use penance you my friend or your partner fucking fail big time, I had to use renew Prayer Bubble Flash heal and sometimes greater heal when they werent near me. Yes Penance is awesome but i mean its our 51 point talent its supposed toi be good. With MS my 2.9k Penances turn into 1450 EACH TICK so around 4500 every 6.4 seconds how the hell is that all a priest needs to use in pvp? you're just fucking horrible
    pennance is still waaay good, you've just gotten used to it being a : "im dying, oh nvm pennance" - type of spell. Riptide anyone?
    Meh

  11. #11

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    Isnt top 100 a reliable source for you? Sorry , but all nerfs and buffs have come out of this chart, ike it or not. But if you have some figures showing priests are underperforming in 1400 bracket, you are welcome to present it, tho i doubt anyone cares.
    You cant only look at top 100... Its too small amount of ppl... You should look at 1000-1100 to realy see a class vs other. The whole top 100 crap that every1 keep trowing out only show 1 side of the coin.
    Everyone thinks their world is falling.. If they had a solid sense of perspective, they probably wouldn't be gamers.

  12. #12

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    Isnt top 100 a reliable source for you? Sorry , but all nerfs and buffs have come out of this chart, ike it or not. But if you have some figures showing priests are underperforming in 1400 bracket, you are welcome to present it, tho i doubt anyone cares.
    Thats fine. Then they can make "World of Arenacraft" where only the top 100 2v2 teams can play at any given time and they can micro manage all to hell.

    Do you have any concept of how infinitesimally small 200 is into millions? Changing things based on this is an asinine design plan.

    Do they change the rules of golf because the top 100 golfers in the world will destroy most courses? No, they give them a special tour and build courses specifically for them to play in to give them a challenge.

    Ensidia clears content like the wind. They are recognized as the best PvE raiding team in WoW. Should all content be tailored to them? No, of course not. That would be dumb design plan and a horrible business strategy.

    The same with the top 100 2v2 teams. Classes should not be balanced around this list. It should be balanced around the majority of players. If you feel special living vicariously through this list then great, but it is COMPLETELY unrepresentative of the vast majority of players.

  13. #13

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Sorry guys I'm really confused here also...so my glyph of penance really just brings penance back to what it originally was?

    I'm really fucking lost at to why this nerf is needed, especially since it kinda fucks over any disc priest playing PvE and in PvP is it REALLY that bad. Like honestly, I play the odd BG here and there as disc in my PvP gear.

    This seems like Blizzard was stumped on what to do with priests besides nerfing them to oblivion, so they decided to do something fucking retarded like this.

    How about we make a deal, leave the penance CD and lower the amount healed by a TOTAL of 2K (basically -1 tick). Now my glyph is useless, I'm pissed off and when I'm getting bursted down I have what 1 heal that will work instantly? Fuck man.

    and as everyone is mentioning, stop fucking with the Top 100. Top 100 is bullshit, no one here is Top 100 and don't pretend like you are. People in the Top 100 tend to just find everything they can to win and go from there. Can we please stop comparing Top 100 to the general population...please?
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  14. #14

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Nerf due to arenas I'm sure.

  15. #15

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rifee
    pennance is still waaay good, you've just gotten used to it being a : "im dying, oh nvm pennance" - type of spell. Riptide anyone?
    Increasing the CD by 1.6 will not stop this.

    The problem is, the harder boss mobs hit in PvE, the better healing spells have to be. It is indirectly proportional to the amount of healing needed in PvP, as resilience increases.

    It cannot be balanced properly w/o separate systems.

  16. #16

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alienganja
    Sorry guys I'm really confused here also...so my glyph of penance really just brings penance back to what it originally was?

    I'm really fucking lost at to why this nerf is needed, especially since it kinda fucks over any disc priest playing PvE and in PvP is it REALLY that bad. Like honestly, I play the odd BG here and there as disc in my PvP gear.

    This seems like Blizzard was stumped on what to do with priests besides nerfing them to oblivion, so they decided to do something fucking retarded like this.

    How about we make a deal, leave the penance CD and lower the amount healed by a TOTAL of 2K (basically -1 tick). Now my glyph is useless, I'm pissed off and when I'm getting bursted down I have what 1 heal that will work instantly? Fuck man.

    and as everyone is mentioning, stop fucking with the Top 100. Top 100 is bullshit, no one here is Top 100 and don't pretend like you are. People in the Top 100 tend to just find everything they can to win and go from there. Can we please stop comparing Top 100 to the general population...please?
    Yup. If nothing changes, then Penance WITH the glyph will be the same as Penance @ launch WITHOUT the glyph (besides the self-target).

  17. #17
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    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I'm more bothered by it, not because of a "OMG Disc is gonna suck" perspective (and I don't think that), but simply because I think it's short-sighted and lazy. The nerf won't be huge in PVE, but it will affect Discipline throughput some at the same time when it looks like Paladins are going to be getting a considerable throughput and utility buff. So, I think between both of those, you could see some Discipline Priests, rightfully or not, losing raid spots. Besides, I don't think it's OP in PVE at all, so even if it doesn't really hurt it very much, it's still silly to affect something in PVE for the sake of PVP.

    So, really, I think the better option would be to attack a PVP specific talent or glyph instead of attacking one that affects both, and if that's not possible, fine, but find a way to more or less compensate PVE for the nerf. For instance, they sort of did that when they did the 5% Crit version of the glyph; both still get the longer cooldown, but the extra Crit still at least makes it useful for PVE and not nearly as useful for PVP. Or how about looking at the PVP portion of Focused Will, like reducing or removing the extra healing after a Crit.

    Ultimately, I think it's dumb; it's something that a skillful Priest will have little trouble adjusting to, and they'll probably see no distinguishable difference afterward. So, I'm not going to lose a whole lot of sleep over it. Besides, I'm used to Blizzard taking the easy way out when it comes to nerfs (e.g., 10% damage reduction on Titan's Grip, 6s CD on WG and CoH, etc.)

  18. #18

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    To all those that take top 100 from sk-gaming - please, take a look when was the last time played by teams that have priests. Especially 2.6k rated rogue priest teams in 2v2.

    However, resilience change is in effect now which will even out the tables. Druids got nerfed with mana costs and Innervate, we got PoH nerf, paladins got beacon + FoL buff.. we'll see how it goes.

    What they should do is remove glyph of penance and let us choose the 3rd glyph to be something more useful.

  19. #19

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    4500 a second (more like 6000 if you are not green geared noob) is really good, and not every class has a MS effect so it goes to wooping 12k with some crits.
    Hmm, im not to sure about that, most of the time when im getting focused i never get the full 3 ticks from penance, due to some interrupt or in the case of warriors another 50% reduced healing.

    No good priest is gonna sit there and channel a full penance and risk getting locked out of your healing spells or 75% ms, most dps with interrupts just wait for penance anyway to interrupt it, since its a channeled cast time and you cant "fake" it, like flash heal or greater heal.

  20. #20

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I would have much rather had them just remove the glyph and return penance to how it was, only with self target. At least that way we would have a free spot to glyph something else. Just another quick fix nerf to respond to the community's cries about how over powered priests are in arena, even though this change won't really affect the pvp side of things. Not to mention the nerf is completely unnecessary for pve disc priests.

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