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  1. #21

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    If I've read the change to bacon of light correctly then we might see the return of full holy pvp paladins...

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9947

    (I play priest, i don't care if that's a bad spec that's just me picking stuff)

    Bacon the weakest teammate, hide in your corner spam healing yourself while being out of line of sight...run out to throw hammer once in a while? Forces the other team to run behind the los to get to you, your cleave team stun locks and rapes their dps out of sight...gg?
    'u get constant hit by ice shit from roof so you can travel instantly all across the room'

  2. #22

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Resilience got boosted, now it will reduce all damage instead of just DoTs and therefore healing had to be nerfed. The problem with this nerf as I see it is that it could have been done in a much better way than this.

    Resilience could have worked both ways considering healing and damage done to that target and the effect would be the same in the long run except the nerf to PvE Disc Priests. As a player who enjoy playing Arena quite much I agree that it´s extremely unjust against PvE Disc Priests.
    and for the guys who didnt read the latest hmm about 5? retpaladin changes, they arent fotm anymore since long, fotm right now is warlock and priest obviously...

  3. #23

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    You do not know how this resil change will effect arena so please don't start panicking.

    Arena is not like in TBC, DoT and run...like most locks did (just taking for example not aiming one class). It is moving to keeping your CD for the right moment too take down your enemy.
    This is "maybe" a good thing as incoming burst will be more balanced, but again there is no way we can know how it will be.

  4. #24

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I don't give a fuck about PvP. My already low PvE throughput got nerfed to satisfy 15 year olds who can't kill a fucking clothie.

  5. #25

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I do hope they're going to buff flash heal to make up for this..

    Our raw healing power, though not our "niche" is already terrible as is.
    I fear it may not be enough, and we'll just end up being support healers.

    As it stands, we already can't compete with holy paladins in keeping a tank alive. While this is our job. This will only push us down even further.
    And what for? Fucking PvP.

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by arbuzno
    4500 a second (more like 6000 if you are not green geared noob) is really good, and not every class has a MS effect so it goes to wooping 12k with some crits.
    You uh, have like 3k+ SP?

    5069-5224-8275 Pokemon Friend Safari - Ice: Lapras / Snorunt / Sneasel

  7. #27

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Oops we fucked up by lowering the Penance CD too much, but instead of admitting our mistake we're gonna put the spell back where we want it but now you lose a glyph slot cause we're retarded.

  8. #28

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Ok. for the pve priests out there. tell me wtf the holy tree is good for. i mean disc is always been dominantly pvp.

    So to all who is bitching about a 2 sec fucking cooldown nerf cry more or at least cry on a forum that matters. Ive never seen so much bitching over the slightest nerf. and if u go all mathematical on me saying 2 secs makes me have to re-itemize haste then thats just dumb penance will still benefit from haste u just cant use it as often.

    2 SECONDS jesus christ. hell go holy if 2 fucking seconds is going to make you complain that much.

    Or explain to me why holy is so bad and i might understand. i mean blizzard does want to make every tree viable amirite?

  9. #29

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    1.18
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos-
    You uh, have like 3k+ SP?
    Yeah, I ignored that. I can only assume he's talking about every tick critting.

    3000SP = 3773 average tick, 5660 average crit tick
    ------------------------------------------
    3773 = 1.18(TD,FP,Gx3)([.5378*3000]+1580)
    ------------------------------------------

    Green Geared Noob(4150SP) = 4498 average tick
    Not Green Geared Noob(6500SP) = 5989 average tick

    Pwned by the maths.

  10. #30

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darhaja
    Ok. for the pve priests out there. tell me wtf the holy tree is good for. i mean disc is always been dominantly pvp.

    So to all who is bitching about a 2 sec fucking cooldown nerf cry more or at least cry on a forum that matters. Ive never seen so much bitching over the slightest nerf. and if u go all mathematical on me saying 2 secs makes me have to re-itemize haste then thats just dumb penance will still benefit from haste u just cant use it as often.

    2 SECONDS jesus christ. hell go holy if 2 fucking seconds is going to make you complain that much.

    Or explain to me why holy is so bad and i might understand. i mean blizzard does want to make every tree viable amirite?
    If you read the post, you'd notice that most aren't objecting to the nerf itself, rather how the nerf went about and its implementation. Conversely, if 1.6seconds isn't a big deal, then why make the nerf?

    The re-itemization comes from the "magic number" for squeezing in FH in-between the penance CD, not the spell itself. The fact is, the 6.4sec Penance CD was not unbalanced in PvE. Nobody complained about it; it wasn't an issue. From what I can gather, it isn't going to make or break PvP for the vast majority of players.

    The objection comes from the assumed reason for the nerf. Blizzard feels that Disco priests are "over-represented" in the top100 lists. First, classes should not be balanced based on these statistics. Second, the reason for this is not 6.4sec Penance vs. 8sec Penance CD.

    I think people are just generally tired of the MLG crowd causing knee jerk reactions from Blizzard developers. Nobody enjoys micro management.

    Furthermore, if the developers have some secret formula pointing to this nerf as necessary, then at least let it be elegant in its implementation. Keep the penance CD at 10sec (talented to 8sec) and provide a glyph that adds some other benefit to penance, or have none at all.

    Yes, its a nerf to Disco throughput and utility. Will it force me to waste gold and rolls/dkp/etc on re-itemizing if I want to be the best? Yes. Is it going to completely revolutionize how I heal in Disco? No.

    Like I said in the PoH post:

    I'm a priest. I am an expert at rolling with the punches while others get the pedestal.

  11. #31

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I'm not really sure the nerf is based on arena performance.

    While Penance is a nice spell, it basically sucks in most arena fights. Either you're in interrupt range of one of the enemy players and have to cancel it after the 2nd tick, or your target is afflicted by MS/AS/Poison and your whole Penance will heal for 6k non-crit. There certainly are no "high ranked priests spamming Penance" and keeping up their teams only with this spell.

    The throughput in PVE, however, is amazing. With a target having Weakened Soul and you having some decent amount of crit, you'll see 2 or 3 of your ticks crit. For any geared disc priest, that should be between 10-15k healing done, not considering Grace and not considering the Aegis you're building up.

    I'd like some changes to Flash Heal, though, it's throughput in PVP is pathetic, and something for our mana regen. Almost all PVP healers easily win the mana battle against me, and my mana CDs can either be interrupted or stunned/feared/cycloned.

  12. #32

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Just taking away the glyph would have given you a glyph slot...and wouldn't have really been a nerf at all. They obviously wanted to nerf the spell.
    Nom Nom Nom [NNF] (2 points) - When you Ferocious Bite a target at or below 25% health, you have a 50/100% chance to instantly refresh the duration of your Rip on the target.

  13. #33

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    With the resilience buff, Penanced needed to be nerfed.
    Lifebloom's bloom was also nerfed.
    Removing the Glyph would have been a larger nerf than increasing the base cooldown.

  14. #34

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by hypo
    I feel sorry for all you disc priest doing PvE. Only reason they nerfed penance was because the endless QQ about disc being OP in PvP.
    And yet still Blizzard manage to keep Pala's and DK's OP!
    Hunters is a pain the ass, but they just got buffed cos they didnt do enough dmg in raids.. WTF???

    I would like to know how blizzard thinks sometimes. Disc priest was nerfed 2 weeks after launch. DK's And pala's went on for a whole season...

    Same as shadowpriest.. It has been useless in pvp for a very long time now.
    And still, it seems, they intend to keep the shadowpriest as the easy kills..

    Or do they want the character out of the game?

    According to blizzard:

    Paladins : Lovedolls

    Priests : Swineflu

  15. #35

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    nerf is ok. wont affect my healing efficiency much but will make me plan my penance CD better...

  16. #36

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by zsuper
    With the resilience buff, Penanced needed to be nerfed.
    Lifebloom's bloom was also nerfed.
    Removing the Glyph would have been a larger nerf than increasing the base cooldown.
    Removing the Glyph and keeping the CD as is, is a net wash:

    Current: 10sec-2sec(glyph)= 8sec *.20(talent)= 6.4sec

    3.2 Notes: 12sec-2sec(glyph)= 10sec*.20(talent)= 8sec

    Removing Glyph with 3.1: 10sec*.20(talent)= 8sec

    Just removing the glyph accomplished the same as the nerf while freeing up a glyph spot for something like the 5%crit glyph previously proposed during 3.1PTR (but then deemed not necessary after the full PTR test).

  17. #37

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    This is an exact case of breaking something that didn't need breaking or fixing. They added glyph of penance in 3.1 - for what reason, beats me. I haven't seem many priests being unhappy by the spells' cooldown. Then, they add 2 second cooldown on it and self cast - awesome, although self cast would be enough. Now, it seems that penance is OP or whatever and instead of removing the glyph - they nerf the spell so we lose major glyph spot. That sucks really and feels unfair. I don't want to argue if it's a pve or pvp nerf, whatever the case is, this change is really really dumb. Just remove the glyph, don't touch the spell and don't fix what doesn't need fixing.
    I expect PW:S "fixing" after fixing of penance and PoH.

  18. #38

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by zsuper
    With the resilience buff, Penanced needed to be nerfed.
    Lifebloom's bloom was also nerfed.
    Removing the Glyph would have been a larger nerf than increasing the base cooldown.
    Again, this is why micro balancing the game is an exercise in futility.

    PvP: As time progresses, resilience increases, players do less damage, and thus healing becomes more effective. Blizzard result: Nerf healing.
    PvE: As time progresses, boss encounters do more damage, and healing becomes less effective. Blizzard result: Nerf healing?

    The two facets of the game are inversely proportional when balancing healing. The design is fundamentally flawed.

    If healing is imbalanced in PvP, but acceptable in PvE, the proper response is to nerf resilience. Then, healing in PvP and PvE will be directly proportional.
    If healing is imbalanced in PvP and PvE, the proper response is to nerf healing. However, I have yet to hear anyone before this argue that 6.4sec CD penance was imbalanced in PvE.

    *Note: PoH was imbalanced in PvE and mostly unused in PvP. Result: PoH was nerfed. This is a proper response.

  19. #39
    Field Marshal nalcarya's Avatar
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    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritusVex
    I'm a priest. I am an expert at rolling with the punches while others get the pedestal.
    Funny thing is you will find people of every class saying things like this

  20. #40

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Penance can be nerfed. I don't mind. Not much anyway, as long as we gain more healing power elsewhere.

    For example, have the flash heal talent increase healing or crit at all times.
    I'd prefer raw healing, more reliable. And you'll still absorb more damage with Divine Aegis. While crit will have the same result, but less reliable.

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