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  1. #41

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    If an 8 second Penance is OP (not saying it is or isn't), then remove the Glyph of Penance, and problem solved.

    Instead, Blizzard now FORCES Disc Priests to use the Glyph of Penance, since no Priest would want to trade an 8 second cooldown (live) for a 12 second cooldown (3.2).

    Had Blizzard simply changed/removed the Glyph of Penance, Priests would be left with the same cooldown of 10 seconds, and it would free up a glyph slot that could be used for other things. But instead, Blizzard took the clumsy and lazy path, and has essentially removed 1 glyph slot from every Disc Priests spellbook.

    GFG

  2. #42
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I'm not sure the argument about them "wasting a glyph slot" is really valid. Consider, how many Discipline Priests don't use that glyph now? The slot is still "wasted" because, while it's even more important after the nerf, it's not like there's a better glyph for that slot now.

    So, yeah, I still think it's sloppy and lazy, but I don't think you'll really get very far with that.

  3. #43

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Instead of Glyph of Penance I'd happilly take Glyph of Dispel Magic or Glyph of Power Word: Shield to name a few, so your argument makes no sense.

  4. #44

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shuji1987
    Instead of Glyph of Penance I'd happilly take Glyph of Dispel Magic or Glyph of Power Word: Shield to name a few, so your argument makes no sense.
    This is a glyph argument over PvE. Some of us don't give a fuck about Arena, and yet are being nerfed because kiddies fail at facerolling rogues.

  5. #45

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    um

    YOU'RE SUPPOSET TO WASTE A GLYPHSLOT IF YOU WANT 10S PENANCE.

    It's a ridiculously powerful spell in pvp,guys.You want it on 10s,you spend a glyphslot.


  6. #46

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by amk
    Instead, Blizzard now FORCES Disc Priests to use the Glyph of Penance, since no Priest would want to trade an 8 second cooldown (live) for a 12 second cooldown (3.2).
    As a clarification, the change with the glyph bumps 6.4sec CD to an 8sec CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq
    I'm not sure the argument about them "wasting a glyph slot" is really valid. Consider, how many Discipline Priests don't use that glyph now? The slot is still "wasted" because, while it's even more important after the nerf, it's not like there's a better glyph for that slot now.

    So, yeah, I still think it's sloppy and lazy, but I don't think you'll really get very far with that.
    The reason people are saying its "wasting a glyphs slot" is because this exact nerf was proposed during the 3.1 patch. The difference was, they just changed the bonus on Glyph of Penance from -2sec CD to 5% bonus crit. Some people would've taken the new glyph, some would've used something else. The point is they would've had options. It was the introduction of the glyph that changed the CD from 8sec to 6.4sec. The logical move is to change/remove the glyph.

    In order to maintain the launch CD of 8sec, players are now required to keep a glyph that caused Blizzard to bump the CD from 6.4 to 8sec to begin with. This is ridiculous.

    It is akin to a business running a 20% off sale, but then realizing that the price is too low, so instead of stopping the sale, they increase the "pre-sale" cost of the product to make up the difference instead. If you heard of a business doing this, you'd feel had. This is why people are steamed over this move.

  7. #47

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    QQQQQQQQQQQ


    Maybe this will add skill to the fucking game if your a Disc priest?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish8586
    I tihnk wehn naruto uses teh spirit bomb on vegeta den he will b defeated and tehn he can fite teh homonclus taht ed made cuz he cant cuz its his mawm!!! ^______________________^

  8. #48

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_rain
    QQQQQQQQQQQ


    Maybe this will add skill to the fucking game if your a Disc priest?
    You're talking about PvP. I care about PvE. If they want to nerf PvP, nerf Disc's survivability.

  9. #49

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moltage
    if the priests you go against only needed to use penance you my friend or your partner fucking fail big time, I had to use renew Prayer Bubble Flash heal and sometimes greater heal when they werent near me. Yes Penance is awesome but i mean its our 51 point talent its supposed toi be good. With MS my 2.9k Penances turn into 1450 EACH TICK so around 4500 every 6.4 seconds how the hell is that all a priest needs to use in pvp? you're just fucking horrible
    this.

  10. #50

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by idpersona
    um

    YOU'RE SUPPOSET TO WASTE A GLYPHSLOT IF YOU WANT 10S PENANCE.

    It's a ridiculously powerful spell in pvp,guys.You want it on 10s,you spend a glyphslot.
    Why must I when it was an acceptable solution before during the 3.1 PTR to change the bonus of the glyph? Why must I when the 3.0 launch didn't have a glyph and was a 10sec baseline CD?

    If its so "ridiculously" powerful in pvp, then a change from a 6.4sec CD to an 8sec CD will NOT make or break a match for a vast majority of players. It could conceivably have an impact on the MLG crowd, but as stated before, balancing a game played by millions around a couple hundred is pretty dumb.

    The fact is, the developers believe priests are "over-represented" in the top100 lists, and Blizzards "elegant" solution to "fix" this is just not cutting mustard. Personally, I could give a damn who is over-represented in the top100. No matter what, one or two classes will ALWAYS be overrepresented in the top100 list as the competition at that level is so high, the slightest edge can be the difference between rank1 and rank100.

    Think of it this way. Give Tiger Woods a $100 and $5,000 driver and have him tee off with both. He will hit the ball straighter and significantly further with the more expensive club. Now, give those same clubs to a recreational player and the results will be barely noticeable. The RULES of golf are balanced for the average player, as should WoW "game mechanics" be balanced around the average player. When players become the best in the world at golf, they go join the PGA where they make special courses and hold special tournaments to test their skill. Why not have the same for top players in WoW Arenas? That way they can be showcased and appreciated while not interfering with the play of the average player.


    Furthermore, the decision to nerf healing in this case is fundamentally flawed and unsustainable:

    PvP: As time progresses, resilience increases, players do less damage, and thus healing becomes more effective. Blizzard result: Nerf healing.
    PvE: As time progresses, boss encounters do more damage, and healing becomes less effective. Blizzard result: Nerf healing?

    The two facets of the game are inversely proportional when balancing healing.

    If healing is imbalanced in PvP, but acceptable in PvE, the proper response is to nerf resilience or increase damage done. Then, healing in PvP and PvE will be directly proportional.
    If healing is imbalanced in PvP and PvE, the proper response is to nerf healing. However, I have yet to hear anyone before this argue that 6.4sec CD penance was imbalanced in PvE.

    Oh, and as a side, the way to fix burst damage in PvP is to allow people to survive the burst through higher hit point pools through PvP gear, not more resilience. Increasing resilience cripples non-burst damage too much as it becomes a proper defense for burst damage. The result? Healing nerfs, which in-turn imbalances PvE for no good reason.

    I don't understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.

  11. #51

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Ah it is so great to be the only class and spec that is gimped a major glyph spot. :'(

  12. #52

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_rain
    QQQQQQQQQQQ


    Maybe this will add skill to the fucking game if your a Disc priest?
    Disc Priest is easily one of, if not the, healer that needs the most skill; constantly switching between offense and defense, deciding if you can afford a mana burn without your partner dieing, constantly faking interrupts due to the lack of instant heals.

    This just reduces our survivability, it doesn't change the skill level required to succeed as a Disc Priest. Though it may still be fine because of the resilience change.

  13. #53

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_rain
    QQQQQQQQQQQ


    Maybe this will add skill to the fucking game if your a Disc priest?
    This must be the best post ever written on mmo. It contains accusation of "QQQQQQQQQQQ" and it also contains QQ about priests not having any skill requirement. You should have 6 stars imo!
    and for the guys who didnt read the latest hmm about 5? retpaladin changes, they arent fotm anymore since long, fotm right now is warlock and priest obviously...

  14. #54

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    In all seriousness though, I'm curious about the reasoning behind this change. You've mentioned before that you'd like to slow fights down, where players go from 1-2 global cooldowns to 3-4. Is this change an attempt to achieve that goal?
    That is the intent. We want to lower damage so that players don't die quite so quickly and have a chance to do something to respond. This should help lower the "burst damage" problem, along with some changes to specific classes. It does nothing for, or perhaps exacerbates, the "burst healing" problem. To attempt to counter this, we lowered the healing done by Penance and Lifebloom and hit some of the mana sustainability of Holy paladins (through Illumination) and druids (through Innervate and Improved Barkskin). Shamans were not heavily respresented in Arenas so we didn't think their healing output needed to be nerfed. It's possible healing may still be too good and that is something we'll need to keep a close eye on.
    (1) Confirms that this was completely a PvP nerf that PvE just has to "deal with." And not just a PvP nerf, but a nerf that was the result of a change meant to fix a problem that could have been resolved independent of PvE by increasing health in arenas.

    (2) Confirms that Blizzard developers have the foresight of a mosquito flying into a bug zapper.

    PvE: Time --> Bosses Hit Harder --> More healing needed.
    PvP: Time --> Resilience goes up --> Less healing needed.

    Nice design.

    (3) So let me get this straight. Burst damage is a problem. Its causing matches to end too quickly. Burst healing is a problem. Its causing matches to drag out. As you reduce the burst damage problem, the burst healing problem increases. If you reduce the burst healing problem, the burst damage problem increases.

    The path Blizzard has taken is to increase defense(resilience) to reduce burst damage while nerfing healing to reduce burst healing. Increasing the benefits of resilience is great because it is contained with PvP and does not effect PvE. It is an autonomous stat that can be adjusted freely. Healing, however, is not an autonomous stat. The nerfs to healing in PvP greatly effect PvE where there weren't major issues with the spells that were nerfed due to PvP. This is a design flaw.

    How can the "burst damage" & "burst healing" problem be addressed without effecting PvE? Simple. Don't buff resilience, but increase health pools in PvP. That way, Burst damage will not kill you out right, burst healing will be less a percentage of health, and matches last longer. How? Just give everyone a %STA buff when you enter an arena match. Easy cake, problem solved.

  15. #55

    Re: Is the Penance nerf really needed?

    I quite liked the suggestion someone posted of making Resiliance reduce the healing you recieve by the same amount that it reduces damage taken. Any effects that would reduce healing taken further like Mortal Strike would overwrite it, meaning you would go from about -15% healing taken (from resiliance) to -50% healing from MS for the MS duration.




    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

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