Moonkin - Eclipse changes

[davesurfer]

Eclipse: The Starfire and Wrath buffs from this talent are now on separate 30 second. cooldowns. In addition, it is not possible to have both buffs active simultaneously.

Am I reading this right? Does this mean we can proc a Lunar right after the Solar finishes or visa versa?

If so this is very interesting, and what does this mean to the crit haste mix on gear?

[omod]

no it means the hidden cooldown is now 30 sec, but you can have lunar right after the non-hidden cooldown for Solar, its a way for them to change are rotation

[davesurfer]

no it means the hidden cooldown is now 30 sec, but you can have lunar right after the non-hidden cooldown for Solar, its a way for them to change are rotation

OK I am officially confused. You said no, but then explained like it was a yes to my question. Maybe I did a poor job asking it.

Currently when there is a Lunar eclipse, you get the bonus, after the bonus is done there is an internal cooldown. Does this change mean I can proc a Solar, while Lunar is on cooldown?

So would we now say spam wrath until we proc a Lunar, then spam Starfire. When the eclipse ends, I still spam Starfire during the cool down, this change will mean I proc a Solar?

Isn't this a DPS increase?

[bigbender]

as i understand it you can now have eclipse almost 100% of the time. (15s lunar then 15s solar, lunar again for example)

the questions is why would you even bother to cast dots on your target ? (i thought casting dots during eclipse = dps loss)

[Dessan]

Well yeah if it worked like that, you'd refresh DoT's as soon as the hidden CD starts.

So far what i'm lead to understand is your rotation would be like:

MF, IS, Wrath til Eclipse proc, Starfire during proc, Refresh DoTs, Keep on using Sf til you proc Solar Eclipse, then refresh DoTs etc..

So basically, just take whichever proc you have, over into the hidden CD until you proc... This means 1) a HUGE dps boost... 2) Less spiky dps 3) Crit MAY > Haste but i don't know enough about the maths for all this...

I think crit is better during the Solar Eclipse and Haste during the Lunar, so probably still a mixed in gear, with Haste coming out on top because the more SF's we get in to a proc the better, although, the more crits we get with Wrath, followed by the already high crit chance Starfire, who knows? Hoping to see some maths VERY soon so I can woop and jump and be gleeful and forget about them nerfing the living hell out of my DK.

[Hokuto]

the questions is why would you even bother to cast dots on your target ? (i thought casting dots during eclipse = dps loss)

Afaik, glyphed IS is still your highest DPCT (considering CT = GCD), but MF on the other hand would be useless on this scenario unless you're forced to move, so you just use it to burn a GCD that you'd otherwise waste.

I say they're going to change something about one of our 4 spells to work around that, as they don't want our rotation to become a spamfest (again). My #1 guess: Eclipse duration will be shortened so we're going to have at least a small iCD.

[Dessan]

Shortening the Eclipse duration is stupid, its already pretty short, plus you normally lose a cast spamming wrath as it is, we'd end up with like 3 definate SF crits each proc, which blows.

[Hokuto]

I know it blows, I just believe that's the solution they're going to come up with :P

[drumsandguns]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I've never raided as anything other than resto, but does Imp. Insect Swarm now make casting dots worthwhile?

[anyaka21]

If you could stand and fire, like on Patchwerk, then it could theortically be constant, or close to. But if I read this correctly, it should mean eclipse being up and running approx 75-80% of the time.

It does, significantly decrease the value of dots, if not making them pretty useless.

It definitely bumps up the value of crit more than haste IMO. Wrath up for 15secs, means rougly 6k+ dps without crits. Starfire casts will be roughly 1.75secs, and 13k+ every cast.

1 dot that does about 14k every 15secs or so, isn't really worth refreshing, unless Eclipse has just finished.

[Hokuto]

If your IS does 14k, it's STILL better than any of your nukes. On bosses it's all about DPCT: compare IS and Wrath (since they have identical casting times) and you'll see that IS is superior, even if only barely superior during a solar eclipse.

As far as I remember, my highest "non-gimmickal" Wrath had crit for 10k during eclipse.

[SBS]

If your IS does 14k, it's STILL better than any of your nukes. On bosses it's all about DPCT: compare IS and Wrath (since they have identical casting times) and you'll see that IS is superior, even if only barely superior during a solar eclipse.

As far as I remember, my highest "non-gimmickal" Wrath had crit for 10k during eclipse.

You just beat me to it

[Anu]

other question:

Balance of Power: Now reduces all spell damage taken by 3/6%, rather than reducing the chance to be hit by spells by 2/4%.

what the hell does this mean? do we loose our 4% hit improvement ??? hope not :S

[rawhide]

other question:
what the hell does this mean? do we loose our 4% hit improvement ??? hope not :S

Read it again

[Anu]

aww sry...

english isn't my main language :S

[Deleted]

It will result in a notable dps increase (much more Eclipse uptime) but in a loss of decision making :/ I have mixed feelings on this.

[Hokuto]

I don't think the new Eclipse's OP. It's definitely going to result on a dps increase, but it's not about that, it's about fixing an old, known mechanic weakness.

The way Eclipse works makes our dps float way too heavily: if you're forced to do anything but stand-and-nuke during a proc, you're directly wasting dps, and there's nothing you can do about that. It's 15s of awesome dps if you're allowed to, followed by 15s + next proc time of mediocre (not normal) dps.

I didn't like the fact their solution was to give us a 100% uptime on Eclipse (if you consider both "flavors" and the fact they're most likely to occur very close from each other). That still means you're not getting the bonus damage unless you're "inside a proc"; it's pretty much our very own Hunger for Blood. But at least it makes sure our dps won't float so wildly by missing the said oportunity windows, so I'm glad at least SOMETHING changed towards fixing that.

Now, the DoTs viability is the new concern. Since it's technically possible to attain a 100% Eclipse uptime (unlikely, but possible), any time "wasted" on anything but SF/Wrath means a smaller Eclipse uptime in the end of a fight; the new "oportunity" cost is higher than before since the possible uptime is twice as high, making nukes more valuable and DoTs even less.

Anyway, hopefully we're not going to get stuck with a SF/Wrath-only rotation. It's gonna take a while to 3.2 to hit live, there's still time for more changes. I just hope they don't roll Eclipse back... Anything is better than the current one.