PoH Nerf patch 3.2

[Epemetheus]

So 30% less SP scaling for PoH. Can someone comment how much this will change for a holy priest?
Is it big enough a nerf to make some talents useless, like the ones that reduce mana and cast time for PoH?

[Zeuq]

I don't think so because it's still the only spell that can fill that particular niche. I think it may encourage people to use a few other spells in some of the more borderline cases, but I can't see casting it any less in any of the fights where it's used a lot now (Ignis, XT, Kologarn, Hodir, etc.).

Also, yes it's roughly 30% less scaling, but I don't think that's as hard of a nerf as it looks like because I'm generaly topping people off as is, so a lot of the scaling does ultimately go into overhealing because you're likely to clip or be clipped with the long cast time. Even with roughly 3k SP, you were getting 2421 (at 80.7%) and now you'll get 1578 (at 52.6%), so you're looking at losing 843 healing done. But seriously, right now, I can often double the total healing done of others in some fights that are so PoH friendly, so I think all it will really mean is that my numbers will drop on the meters, but some of that clipping will be reduced, so other people's will rise. So, really, I'm not terribly upset about it because, really, it's only about half a step behind how over-powered Circle of Healing was before that got nerfed, so I really can't complain too much.

I do, however, think that, while the actual amount healed by the PoH glyph will be reduced, because there's likely to be less clipping and less topping off, I think this might ultimately increase the relative value of that glyph. I suppose we'll have to see.

[Iannis]

Not sure, but it rather sucks being Disc. Not saying I spam it as Disc but sometimes it is nice to help against raid AoE damage but throwing one out on a group. Considering that it costs 1850ish mana (not having the talent) I don't know why Blizzard felt it necessary to reduce it's healing. When something takes over 2 seconds to cast, cost just shy of 2k mana, I think it deserves to have some large pretty numbers.

The change is probably result of QQ from various other healers who think it's instant cast and free of mana for us...

[[-Spiritus-]]

While I always lament a hit to throughput, this nerf will not significantly change my healing style, just slightly change the numbers around. Some will be a little underhealed while others will be less overhealed. It would have been nice to through a reduction to mana cost with this, but, I'm not hurting on mana yet so no big complaints.

Besides, I'm a priest. I am an expert at rolling with the punches while others get the pedestal.

[Kelesti]

Besides, I'm a priest.  I am an expert at rolling with the punches while others get the pedestal.

Brings me back to 3.0 when Circle got its cooldown. Everyone's like "OMG" but we survived.

Buff every other healer through the roof, take the priest to the ground, dig a hole, make sure they're buried, and the sheep will cry. The good ones will take it with a grain of salt and still continue to perform.

[Avenged]

While I always lament a hit to throughput, this nerf will not significantly change my healing style, just slightly change the numbers around. Some will be a little underhealed while others will be less overhealed. It would have been nice to through a reduction to mana cost with this, but, I'm not hurting on mana yet so no big complaints.

Besides, I'm a priest. I am an expert at rolling with the punches while others get the pedestal.

Love the last line.

I also agree, I don't think this will change my healing style much either. A lot of PoH casts roll into overhealing as it is, we'll just see a reduction there and maybe slightly less on the overall healing, depending on the intensity of the aoe damage of a particular encounter.

[Danner]

It's a nerf of ~700 per target for a holypriest. Pretty notable nerf considering how reliant we are on PoH when the stuff hits the fan, but it won't change the fact that PoH is still the heal you want to cast. It will just be weaker. I think blizzard was aiming to nerf holypriests and druids - we were pretty damned close in healing ability, but a little ahead of the shaman. So Blizzard hit PoH and lifebloom. Nerfing us and buffing the shamans, that's the name of the game, time will tell if they equalized it. The PTR will probably balance this further though. But don't expect this nerf to go away.

More interesting is how the Paladins are going to work out after this patch. Paladins just turned into the most fricking awesome healer in the game by a humongous margin, but they suddenly have to gear for a lot of manaregen to keep it up. I think they will be nerfed a lot before 3.2 goes live.

As for priests... MP5 just went from 0.4 MP5 to 0.5 MP5 in value as the stat was rebalanced. Spirit is again the worst regen stat in the game.

[Worshaka]

I don't think so because it's still the only spell that can fill that particular niche. I think it may encourage people to use a few other spells in some of the more borderline cases, but I can't see casting it any less in any of the fights where it's used a lot now (Ignis, XT, Kologarn, Hodir, etc.).

Also, yes it's roughly 30% less scaling, but I don't think that's as hard of a nerf as it looks like because I'm generaly topping people off as is, so a lot of the scaling does ultimately go into overhealing because you're likely to clip or be clipped with the long cast time. Even with roughly 3k SP, you were getting 2421 (at 80.7%) and now you'll get 1578 (at 52.6%), so you're looking at losing 843 healing done. But seriously, right now, I can often double the total healing done of others in some fights that are so PoH friendly, so I think all it will really mean is that my numbers will drop on the meters, but some of that clipping will be reduced, so other people's will rise. So, really, I'm not terribly upset about it because, really, it's only about half a step behind how over-powered Circle of Healing was before that got nerfed, so I really can't complain too much.

I do, however, think that, while the actual amount healed by the PoH glyph will be reduced, because there's likely to be less clipping and less topping off, I think this might ultimately increase the relative value of that glyph. I suppose we'll have to see.

Wow, someone posted a point of view that wasn't totally selfish... i'm amazed that someone actually understood that a change in mechanics doesn't have to fit into binary categories of buff or nerf and that there is actually some grey involved.

I agree, the change will result in preventing you sniping other heals (like chain heal) and will probably help to solve some of the issues that are particularly facing Shamans and Paladins.

However there will be some noobs out there that think healing meters proves how good they are and they will probably QQ because the meters will stop backing up their enormous epeen egos.

[Shockk]

Wow, someone posted a point of view that wasn't totally selfish... i'm amazed that someone actually understood that a change in mechanics doesn't have to fit into binary categories of buff or nerf and that there is actually some grey involved.

I agree, the change will result in preventing you sniping other heals (like chain heal) and will probably help to solve some of the issues that are particularly facing Shamans and Paladins.

However there will be some noobs out there that think healing meters proves how good they are and they will probably QQ because the meters will stop backing up their enormous epeen egos.

The change isn't massive, and there's no arguing with PoH probably being the most powerful group healing spell right now. But then again, holy mana regen is horrible, a holy priest has to rely on the (by far) worst stat in game for it and the other healers seem to be buffed considerably. But hey, buff two healer classes, nerf one - fair deal.

Also, paladins having mana issues ... yeah right. Vezax is the only boss where our holy paladin isn't way over 50% at the end of the fight.

[Duo]

The change isn't massive, and there's no arguing with PoH probably being the most powerful group healing spell right now. But then again, holy mana regen is horrible, a holy priest has to rely on the (by far) worst stat in game for it and the other healers seem to be buffed considerably. But hey, buff two healer classes, nerf one - fair deal.

Also, paladins having mana issues ... yeah right. Vezax is the only boss where our holy paladin isn't way over 50% at the end of the fight.

is your holy paladin a intell/crit stacker? if so i really doubt that your holy paladin will be at 50% mana t the end of the fight due to the changes coming to illumination(60% was old number and now is 30% mana back from spell) and Nerf to replenishment(though minor) and the nerf to divine intell(5% nerf to intell). So they are by no means being buffed(h-pally). Also MP5 is being buffed by about 25% which will help Holy priest regain

[Neichus]

It's a nerf of ~700 per target for a holypriest. Pretty notable nerf considering how reliant we are on PoH when the stuff hits the fan, but it won't change the fact that PoH is still the heal you want to cast. It will just be weaker. I think blizzard was aiming to nerf holypriests and druids - we were pretty damned close in healing ability, but a little ahead of the shaman. So Blizzard hit PoH and lifebloom. Nerfing us and buffing the shamans, that's the name of the game, time will tell if they equalized it. The PTR will probably balance this further though. But don't expect this nerf to go away.

More interesting is how the Paladins are going to work out after this patch. Paladins just turned into the most fricking awesome healer in the game by a humongous margin, but they suddenly have to gear for a lot of manaregen to keep it up. I think they will be nerfed a lot before 3.2 goes live.

The Shaman changes are actually somewhat unusual, and I'm curious to see how they turn out. It's dicey because the changes to their most-used heal (Lesser Healing Wave) are difficult to figure at this time; loss of speed in exchange for an increase in efficiency/throughput. Overall likely to see a decrease in usage in exchange for Healing Wave, which got a few buffs; the concern however is that HW tends to net a lot of overheal, so just buffing it at the expense of what seemed to be a better heal this last while (LHW). Time will tell on this one. Of course, the Chain Heal changes were nothing but buffs. Fun patch either way.

And I'm curious on the Paladin changes myself. I hope it makes them feel a little less one-dimensional.

[Shockk]

Also MP5 is being buffed by about 25% which will help Holy priest regain

Because I am so stacking mp5 as a holy priest.

[Duo]

Because I am so stacking mp5 as a holy priest.

Main part of my post was to the Holy paladin being 50% higher which they are really killing regain with the nerfs. While you may not have a large amount of mp5 you are bound to have some meaning your regain is however so slightly better.

[Duo]

The Shaman changes are actually somewhat unusual, and I'm curious to see how they turn out. It's dicey because the changes to their most-used heal (Lesser Healing Wave) are difficult to figure at this time; loss of speed in exchange for an increase in efficiency/throughput. Overall likely to see a decrease in usage in exchange for Healing Wave, which got a few buffs; the concern however is that HW tends to net a lot of overheal, so just buffing it at the expense of what seemed to be a better heal this last while (LHW). Time will tell on this one. Of course, the Chain Heal changes were nothing but buffs. Fun patch either way.

And I'm curious on the Paladin changes myself. I hope it makes them feel a little less one-dimensional.

I'm curious to how it will turn out also on the pally it seems kinda little over kill on illumination but would have to actually test it to see how bad or how well it works out with all the rest of changes but all numbers are subject to change so who knows might happen.

[malkolm]

Q: How to buff shammies after massive qq?
A: Nerf priests.

[syanid]

I don't mind nerfs at our side and buffs at paladin / shaman side. If the fights work that way that we can heal up the damage, what's there to argue? All of the healers are supposed to be teammates, not competition to each other at the boss fight. PoH is a powerful spell, I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf it more.

What I do mind is that they managed to nerf priests' regen out of all healers with the spirit nerf. Paladins can still rock their heals like there's no tomorrow, druids too, shamans to less extent and we have to manage our mana. It's the only thing that's not sorted or balanced right now.

[Duo]

I don't mind nerfs at our side and buffs at paladin / shaman side. If the fights work that way that we can heal up the damage, what's there to argue? All of the healers are supposed to be teammates, not competition to each other at the boss fight. PoH is a powerful spell, I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf it more.

What I do mind is that they managed to nerf priests' regen out of all healers with the spirit nerf. Paladins can still rock their heals like there's no tomorrow, druids too, shamans to less extent and we have to manage our mana. It's the only thing that's not sorted or balanced right now.

they are nerfing holy paladins regain btw

# Divine Intellect: This talent now gives 2/4/6/8/10% increased intellect instead of 3/6/9/12/15%.
# Illumination: This talent now returns 30% of the mana cost of the spell instead of 60%.

Only buffs are to beacon now including over healing and the hot for fol on sacred shield(which i don't see being that great but hey ill wait to test it before saying it sucks)

[Danner]

The paladin buffs are really amazing. Beacon of Light was already a really powerful ability, but it was hard to use it to its full potential as it only copied actual healing. By changing this to include overhealing, you can beacon the MT target easily and stil heal him regardless of who you are actually healing. By increasing the beacon range to an unprecedented 60yd range, a paladin can target the entire raid almost regardless of positioning and still heal the tank. Basically, the paladins will never again need to target the MT, and can do spot raidhealing as needed. Combine that with HL glyph splash heal, and you've got an extremely potent healer capable of really kicking ass in raidhealing, on par with a priest, druid or shaman, while still healing the MT perfectly as a sideeffect.

To paladins out there, welcome back. Bringing a second holypaladin is now very worth it. I think blizzard overdid it a bit though, bringing a seventh holypaladin is probably more worthwhile than bringing a first of any other healer. Expect this to be adjusted soon.

The only thing holding paladins back from abolishing all other healers as it stands now is their new manaregen reality. It's a good change, forcing paladins to care about their blue bar, imo. But I'm a bit concerned about this; as we all know, the fact that holypriests run oom extremely easily isn't really stopping us from going all out with our most expensive heals. To the point where blizzard now nerfed it. Not really seeing how this will change when trying the same with paladins. And concidering how OP the new paladins are...

[[-Spiritus-]]

The paladin buffs are really amazing. Beacon of Light was already a really powerful ability, but it was hard to use it to its full potential as it only copied actual healing. By changing this to include overhealing, you can beacon the MT target easily and stil heal him regardless of who you are actually healing. By increasing the beacon range to an unprecedented 60yd range, a paladin can target the entire raid almost regardless of positioning and still heal the tank. Basically, the paladins will never again need to target the MT, and can do spot raidhealing as needed. Combine that with HL glyph splash heal, and you've got an extremely potent healer capable of really kicking ass in raidhealing, on par with a priest, druid or shaman, while still healing the MT perfectly as a sideeffect.

To paladins out there, welcome back. Bringing a second holypaladin is now very worth it. I think blizzard overdid it a bit though, bringing a seventh holypaladin is probably more worthwhile than bringing a first of any other healer. Expect this to be adjusted soon.

The only thing holding paladins back from abolishing all other healers as it stands now is their new manaregen reality. It's a good change, forcing paladins to care about their blue bar, imo. But I'm a bit concerned about this; as we all know, the fact that holypriests run oom extremely easily isn't really stopping us from going all out with our most expensive heals. To the point where blizzard now nerfed it. Not really seeing how this will change when trying the same with paladins. And concidering how OP the new paladins are...

Though I'm not certain how this thread got derailed into paladins... I'm glad they have some new tools to play with. Maybe recruiting one will be less of a pain in the ass now.

Danner, I think you over state the effectiveness of Glyph of HL. There is no conceivable way, even with the new changes, a Holy Pally could ever match my HPS on raidwide AoE damage. Perhaps what you mean by "raid heal" is "spot heal."

'Spot Heal": Ignis' slagpot. Razorscale's "frostfire" snipes. Mimi's napalm attack in phase1. Dumbass "stands in fire." Dumbass pulls add aggro.

"Raid Heal": FlameJets, Tantrum, Steelbreaker's constant steady damage, Kolo arm swipe, sonic screech, frozen blows, Thorim arena, Mimiron phase 2 & phase 4, etc.

In this case, then yes Paladins are "on par" with a priest,druid or shaman for "spot healing."

[zsun]

I wasnt surprised at all by this nerf. Although Blizzard themselves didn't say much regarding this spell prior to this nerf, the power and effectiveness of this spell alone speaks for itself really.

In a raid environment, only this spell has the potential of doing up to 25000 to 30000 effective healing in a slightly under 2 second cast when stacked with Serendipity (Not including the glyph). If followed up by a CoH, up to another 12500 effective healing can be done. Thats up to a total of up to 37500 to 42500 effective healing in slight under 2 seconds worth of cast time (assuming no overhealing). Although I'm not very knowledgeable about other healing classes, however I do doubt they have this kind of HPS potential.

Yes mana is a problem in a generic sense. It might not be much of a problem for some over-geared holy priests, but it is still a problem in general. A PoH + CoH combo can cost up to 1/10 of your mana bar. My advice on this is:

1. Pop shadowfiend when u are about 25% mana remaining, and use mana potions if need be, the last resort is to beg for innervates but dont count on it. If you still go OOM, use a mana regen flask instead of a spell power flask

2. DONT try to compete on the healing meters. Only use PoH when the situation calls for it. By situation I mean the set periodic raid-wide damage the boss deals. I know most of you already know this but yea I like stating the obvious... Precasting is always a good idea if u can time it right, but dont cast more than 3 PoH's for just one set of raid-wide damage *=(Of course there are exceptions where the duration of raid-wide damage is extended, eg Frozen Blows). For example Kologarn arm swipe I normally use PoH twice. First one precasted followed immediately by CoH, PoH second time and after that, and the raid should be looking quite healthy.

3. While this might not sound like good advice, it really helps your mana regen. I do this sometimes as well. Anyway, on fights like Razor-scale, where the damage on phase 1 is pretty random, dont try to flash heal every raid member you see taking the frostfire damage. Instead try flash healing every SECOND raid member you see taking such damage. This only applies to flash heals. Hence your PoM and CoH should still be on cooldown at all times. The reason for this is that while other healers are still reacting to the first person taking the hit, you can concentrate on healing the second person with reduced risk of being sniped, hence less overheals. In a way you can say that you are saving mana at the expense of others, but hey, you have a mana issue right?

Well if you are really geared and mana isnt an issue feel free to ignore my tips. They arent the best anyways.

IMO PoH nerf is, in a way, to tell priests to give other healers a chance to shine. Im not saying we arent the best anymore, of course in my opinion we still are